Sukhoi PAK FA

[pankaj nema]

I have a INTUITIVE feeling and my intuition is never wrong ; that
PAK FA will be a great success and IAF 's expectations
will be more than just fulfilled; infact IAF will be absolutely delighted with it

 

[p2prada]

I have a INTUITIVE feeling and my intuition is never wrong ; that
PAK FA will be a great success and IAF 's expectations
will be more than just fulfilled; infact IAF will be absolutely delighted with it

Our IAF chief said that PAKFA will be 2x times superior in capability to the MKI. It stands for something after all.

 

[JayATL]

You take the Russian aircraft with better range, speed, aerodynamics, take off weight, etc and blend it with European EW suites and avionics, and you have an aircraft which is better than it's immediate American rival.

Case in point; Su-30MKI vs Pakistan's F-16 Block 52s.

Huh? you mean Americans and Europeans will provide Indians with their packages, in direct competition to the F35 aircraft ? NOoooooo, they won't . Remember F35 is a JSF program , Europeans have invested in the project.

Americans had AESA what a decade or more ago? and just now the Russians are trying to develop their AESA.

 

[trackwhack]

Huh? you mean Americans and Europeans will provide Indians with their packages, in direct competition to the F35 aircraft ? NOoooooo, they won't . Remember F35 is a JSF program , Europeans have invested in the project.

Americans had AESA what a decade or more ago? and just now the Russians are trying to develop their AESA.

The Phaztron Zhuk AE has been around for 5 years now. Now please pass the peace pipe. You cant take it any more.

 

[Armand2REP]

from where they are getting so much money to start a serial production line for a prototype airplane?? 14 planes, more than tejas!!!

India is paying $700 million to develop two seat FGFA, it goes to make Russian model instead.

 

[Armand2REP]

The unseen ones like radar, EW and weapons performance is anybody's guess.

If you keep up with events, it is not a mystery. Russia's only AESA radar proved totally inept during Indian trials. ECM suite was stated as being wholly obsolete and not even comparable to Western systems.

 

[ptldM3]

If you keep up with events, it is not a mystery. Russia's only AESA radar proved totally inept during Indian trials. ECM suite was stated as being wholly obsolete and not even comparable to Western systems.

Can you provide a link?

 

[Armand2REP]

Can you provide a link?

The MiG-35's radar, the Zhuk-MAE active electronically scanned array (AESA), from Russia's Phazotron, failed to achieve the required acquisition and tracking ranges.

Engines and radar to blame for MiG-35 failure in MMRCA contest

Talking about future models of equipment, the commander in chief has complained that the multi-purpose Su-35 isn't created quickly enough. "As for the Su-35, then work on it do not go as I wanted" - said Zelin.

According to him, in making this car has some glitches. According to Zelin, on-board equipment and integrated defense system of the Su-35 is inferior American aircraft of the same type. "Our plane should be more protected from the air defenses of the enemy," - said the commander in chief.

-ВЗГЛЯД / Небесные перспективы

 

[ptldM3]

Can you provide a link?

That's a little funny considering the Zhuk has slightly better range than the RBE2 radar, albeit less targets tracked. There is also some very critical functions to a radar that goes beyond range and tracking which isn't as important as people think. In any case the Zhuk is a first attemp at an AESA, the future varient of the Zhuk is said to have a 200km range and 60 targets tracked. Than again Zhuk is not the only player in towns that is working an an AESA...

As for the SU-35, the Rafale was also plagued with performance problems early on. I'm sure you know this. The SU-35's ECM equipment such as jamming pods have also been used in SU-34 that succesfuly performed SEADs missions over Georgia.

 

[Armand2REP]

That's funny considering the Zhuk failed to meet minimum MMRCA radar requirements while RBE2 passed with flying colours. A couple weeks before the trial Russia was stating it was meeting them, when it got to the real world of India = FAIL.

As for the Su-35, it is just another Flanker modernisation. The change is avionics which the Rafale never had a problem with. The Su-34 was only used once as a trial over Georgia. It launched on a SAM that had no hope of hitting it. ECM didn't even come into play. Spectra has in impeccable record defeating all threats at Red Flag and Libya.

 

[ptldM3]

That's funny considering the Zhuk failed to meet minimum MMRCA radar requirements while RBE2 passed with flying colours. A couple weeks before the trial Russia was stating it was meeting them, when it got to the real world of India = FAIL.

What is funny is that the Zhuk suprpassed the RBE2 in some of the categegories that you claimed it failed in. So how does this work?

As for the Su-35, it is just another Flanker modernisation. The change is avionics which the Rafale never had a problem with. The Su-34 was only used once as a trial over Georgia. It launched on a SAM that had no hope of hitting it. ECM didn't even come into play. Spectra has in impeccable record defeating all threats at Red Flag and Libya.

Interesting, the same same battery that one of the SU-34's destroyed also downed a reconesance aircraft, so how does that work? One of the ways SEAD's works is by RWR's alarming and than locating hostile threats. Back to ECM in the Georgian conflict, it infact was used, it did so well that there was no losses to aircraft performing SEADs or aircraft protected by SEADs.

 

[Armand2REP]

What is funny is that you think it surpassed the French AESA in anything. Russia brought a half baked device that couldn't even deliver what they promised two weeks earlier. It was evaluated by IAF and shunned. Russia complained that it is not the final device. Competitions are not won on paper promises.

Interesting, the rec aircraft didn't have ECM so what tea is in China? The only thing Russian RWR does is show an aircraft image and put a little compass plot in the direction of the threat. It neither classifies the threat, give distance or GPS coordinates. You need a pod for ECM. Spectra does it all.

 

[p2prada]

India is paying $700 million to develop two seat FGFA, it goes to make Russian model instead.

There is a typo somewhere...

Ah! I found it.

It is not $700Million. It is $5.5 Billion, and only initially. It is for the entire program though and FGFA is part of the PAKFA program. Inductions costs are not calculated.

 

[p2prada]

If you keep up with events, it is not a mystery. Russia's only AESA radar proved totally inept during Indian trials. ECM suite was stated as being wholly obsolete and not even comparable to Western systems.

I don't think that was the only reason for Mig-35s failure. It lost a canopy during tests and it's inadequate engine power was a problem too. Personally I don't think the actual reasons given to Russia are the same as what's being reported in the papers. However it was a prototype and IAF did not seem interested in one as compared to in service aircraft, maybe the Gripen NG too.

We know or we can positively guess F-16s failures, but we cannot say the same for the SH. Similarly, we don't know exactly why Gripen lost either, except that it is a prototype. All we know is they lost and the papers did not waste time speculating the reasons for the losses.

As for Russian development of AESA, we will know soon enough. The MKIs will be the first operational Russian aircraft with AESA in the near future. IAF and our internal civilian analysts will be able to tell which has the better radar, Rafale or Super MKI. Both have a similar time frame for induction too. Currently the performance of the Bars is first class. A Bars based AESA is bound to be better, if not the Phazatron Zukh AE.

Till date, only the Typhoon was evaluated without an operational AESA radar. Some general info, the RBE-2s first version used US T/R modules.

As for your cheapshot on Mig-35s ECM. The Mig-35s ECM was the only other active internal ECM kit in the competition, rivaling the Spectra. The system used is the Virgilius system made in Italy which was based on Spectra's design. Read up on ELT/568v2. However since Italy lies to the East of France, I guess it is not western enough.

 

[Armand2REP]

There is a typo somewhere...

Ah! I found it.

It is not $700Million. It is $5.5 Billion, and only initially. It is for the entire program though and FGFA is part of the PAKFA program. Inductions costs are not calculated.

I did make a typo, the only deal signed was a split $295 million JV for development of FGFA. India only spent $147.5 million.

Russia, India sign design contract for prototype multirole fighter | Defense | RIA Novosti

 

[p2prada]

I did make a typo, the only deal signed was a split $295 million JV for development of FGFA. India only spent $147.5 million.

Russia, India sign design contract for prototype multirole fighter | Defense | RIA Novosti

That's how deals happen. We start little by little and start spending the big money after that. Russia is quite comfortable with our current arrangement. Our money will come in once quite a bit of the program has progressed. Russia can borrow money as well.

Currently the PDC will end and the next design cycle will start for FGFA. So, money will be released after that. The first deal was signed in December, 2010. The next deal will be signed in a few months from now because the 18 months are almost up for PDC.

Some people have always wondered if PAKFA is just a prototype and that the main fighter design is the one that India signed up for. But without official confirmation we will never know. It is possible we won't know until the first FGFA prototype starts flying.

 

[Drsomnath999]

That's funny considering the Zhuk failed to meet minimum MMRCA radar requirements while RBE2 passed with flying colours. A couple weeks before the trial Russia was stating it was meeting them, when it got to the real world of India = FAIL.

well rbe 2 radar was also reported to have problems earliear so what !!! it has been resolved so would be the russians if it has problems no big deal

Electronic Aviation - Dassault Rafale - Problems

As for the Su-35, it is just another Flanker modernisation. The change is avionics which the Rafale never had a problem with. The Su-34 was only used once as a trial over Georgia. It launched on a SAM that had no hope of hitting it. ECM didn't even come into play. Spectra has in impeccable record defeating all threats at Red Flag and Libya.

no it is not just another ordinary Flanker modernisation. but Su 35 is very advanced version of Flanker version it has some higly advanced 5th gen
avionics .I agree spectra is very advanced

 

[Armand2REP]

well rbe 2 radar was also reported to have problems earliear so what !!! it has been resolved so would be the russians if it has problems no big deal

The RBE2 in that report is the same one that flies on Rafale today. It wasn't designed to have greater range at the expense of LPI. The problem is resolved with the induction of RBE2 AA, not by fixing the existing PESA. It isn't a problem except for Dassault to sell it when it is designed that way. Zhuk AE was stated to meet the MMRCA requirements in tests two weeks earlier and failed. It wasn't just a problem of range but also tracking/acquisition capabilities.

no it is not just another ordinary Flanker modernisation. but Su 35 is very advanced version of Flanker version it has some higly advanced 5th gen
avionics .I agree spectra is very advanced.

The defencive systems on Su-35 are inferior to Western samples and are stalling development.

 

[bhramos]

 

[JayATL]

The Phaztron Zhuk AE has been around for 5 years now. Now please pass the peace pipe. You cant take it any more.

stay out of topics like this, it brings the stupidity on streoid gene in you. You have no clue about that radar, let alone compare it to the US AESA, or that even that poor attempt was a decade late.