Sukhoi PAK FA

Punya Pratap

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How Rafale is killing the air force's future
Published February 17, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: AJAY SHUKLA / Business-standard.com



The priceless Indo-Russian project to co-develop the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) is dying of neglect. With the Indian Air Force (IAF) brass focused single-mindedly on procuring 126 Rafale fighters, the air marshals fear that an FGFA on the horizon would undermine their argument that the Rafale is essential. With the costly Rafale procurement imploding in slow motion, the FGFA is becoming collateral damage.

In October 2012, then IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne, announced the IAF would buy only 144 FGFAs instead of the 214 that were originally planned. Having cut down the numbers, the IAF is now undermining the FGFA project itself.

After the apex Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission for Military Technical Cooperation (IRIGC-MTC) met on January 22 to discuss military cooperation, IAF officers whispered to a gullible media that the FGFA was dead. It was reported that Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar had told his Russian counterpart that joint research and development (R&D) was a waste of time. This was factually incorrect. What is true is that the IAF – for reasons that can only be guessed at – is scuttling a project to develop a fighter that would rank alongside the world's best.

Why is the FGFA important, more so than the Rafale? It is a fifth-generation fighter, which makes it operationally more capable than contemporary fourth-generation fighters like the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon. Gen-5 fighters are designed to be stealthy, which means enemy radar cannot detect them until it is too late. They "supercruise", i.e. fly at supersonic speeds without lighting engine afterburners (the Rafale can do this too); and Gen-5 aircraft have futuristic avionics and missiles. In a war with China, stealthy Gen-5 aircraft would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet, evading China's radar network, to destroy the Qinghai-Tibet railway and roads leading to the Indian border – to prevent China from quickly switching troops around on its superior border infrastructure.

So vital was the FGFA considered to India's aerospace capabilities that, in October 2007, New Delhi and Moscow signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) to co-develop the fighter, which placed the project above defence ministry procurement rules. The IGA states that Hindustan AeronauticsLtd (HAL) would partner Rosoboronexport, Russia's defence exports agency, in co-developing the fighter. Furthermore, Indian engineers say the expertise gained from the FGFA would be valuable in building the planned indigenous Gen-5 fighter, designated the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Following the IGA, New Delhi and Moscow signed a General Contract in December 2008, stipulating general principles of cooperation such as the share of work and cost, and the sale of the FGFA to third countries. In December 2010, a Preliminary Design Contract was signed in which both sides contributed $295 million towards finalising the fighter's basic configuration, systems and equipment. With that completed in June 2013, the central R&D Contract is now being negotiated. This will govern the bulk of the work – the actual design and development of the FGFA.

Even as the IAF stonewalls the R&D contract negotiations, the need for India to come on board grows ever more pressing. Russia has already designed, built and flown the first prototypes of a Gen-5 fighter they call the PAK-FA (Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii, or "Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation"). The PAK-FA, built to Russian Air Force specifications, has already completed 650 test-flights. India's work share will lie in adapting this fighter to the IAF's requirements – which include advanced capabilities like all-round radar that can detect threats in a 360-degree envelope, and voice recognition software that allows the pilot to call out commands. In all, the IAF has specified some 40-45 improvements that they want over the PAK-FA. Indian designers, who will have to integrate these improved capabilities with the existing PAK-FA, are losing out by not participating in the on-going design and test flying in Russia.

The IAF's objections to the FGFA are (a) The Russians are reluctant to share critical design information; (b) The fighter's current AL-41F1 engines are inadequate, being mere upgrades of the Sukhoi-30MKI's AL-31 engines; and (c) It is so expensive that "a large percentage of IAF's capital budget will be locked up." It is ironical that an air force that is eager to spend an estimated $20 billion on the entirely foreign, Gen-4 Rafale is baulking at spending a fraction of that on co-developing and indigenously manufacturing a Gen-5 fighter, which can be maintained and upgraded cheaply for decades to come.

An entire mythology has come up around the cost with even senior air marshals incorrectly stating that India will spend $11 billion on the FGFA. Even this inflated figure would be modest compared to the $40 billion that America spent in the 1980s and 1990s to develop the Gen-5 F-22 Raptor. Yet, in fact, this $11 billion figure was a defence ministry estimation in 2010, which included numerous items that have nothing to do with R&D. Firstly, the amount included both Russian and Indian expenditure; second, it included several options that India may not require, e.g. $1.5 billion for developing a twin-seat FGFA (which the IAF now says it does not want), and $1.5 billion for a new engine. Third, this included the cost of infrastructure that India must establish to manufacture the aircraft in large numbers for the IAF.

Since India urgently needs to start participating in the flight-test programme, of which the PAK-FA has already completed some 20 per cent, Sukhoi would have to build another prototype for India. That cost too is included in the estimation, along with the ground support equipment and training needed for a full-fledged Indian flight-test programme. With all of this factored in, officials closely involved in the negotiations say that India's share in the project could be about $3.5 to 4 billion.

Both sides have already talked around the R&D contract in such detail that it can be concluded in one sitting, provided Indian negotiators are given the green light from a clear-minded political leadership. The FGFA perfectly fits the "Make in India" idea; the strategy of being ready for a two-front conflict; and the IAF force structure of the future. From the standpoint of negotiation strategy, the timing is perfect. The rouble has plummeted more than 60 per cent against the dollar and the rupee in the last five months after the Ukraine crisis. The Russians will agree to the lower dollar rate that New Delhi has been proposing. The time to strike is now.
 

sorcerer

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Russia, India to Begin Construction of Test T-50 Fighter Jets

Russia and India are moving into the phase of constructing the first models of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with stealth capabilities, based on the Russian T-50 prototype jet, the deputy head of Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport said Tuesday.

"The agreements on the contract are currently at their final stages, which include the development of construction documentation, building the test models, trials, and certification," Sergei Goreslavsky told RIA Novosti in an interview ahead of the Aero India-2015 exposition in Bangalore, India, that will open on February 18.

The first stage of the Russian-Indian project has already been finalized. The first test aircraft is scheduled to be created after 2018.

The Sukhoi T-50, or PAK FA, is the Russian Air Force's first stealth fighter, designed to succeed the Sukhoi Su-27, as well as the Mikoyan MiG-29 fighter jets. The aircraft conducted its first test flight in 2010.

The FGFA, developed jointly by Russia's Sukhoi and India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, is a derivative from the T-50. Unlike the Russian version, the Indian version of the aircraft will be a two-seater.



Read more: http://hindi.sputniknews.com/south_asia/20150217/1013470596.html#ixzz3S1lCT2Ax
 

sgarg

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I see first PAKFA delivered to India in 2018 (based on Russian AF version). There is a very good possibility of a deal between Russia and India concerning purchase of a batch of PAKFA outside joint production FGFA program.
The joint FGFA program may deliver only in 2022.
 

roma

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Mass induction of T-50 PakFa begins in 2016 for Russia. Aren't we supposed to get ~120 T-50 single seat variants too?
(repost of link : First series of T-50 aircrafts has entered the Russian Air Force | Russia & India Report)
The timeline on the T-50 infographic must be right then? Can anyone verify?
if sukhoi SU T50 ( single pilot ) is gonna be available en masse in russia 2016 , most likely they will
allow india 2017 - we can cancel rafael, and with money and good record with russians get fgfa
(2 pilot, india specific version ) to be sped up.

the su T50 may not be up to f35 standard but should be better than anything china has
 
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sgarg

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if sukhoi SU T50 ( single pilot ) is gonna be available en masse in russia 2016 , most likely they will
allow india 2017 - we can cancel rafael, and with money and good record with russians get fgfa
(2 pilot, india specific version ) to be sped up.

the su T50 may not be up to f35 standard but should be better than anything china has
The discussions are on for delivery of PAKFA to IAF. This will be through government to government deal which is the preferred mode of purchases from Russia.
If a contract is awarded, first aircraft is likely to arrive in 2018. These aircraft will be built fully in Russia.
 

sgarg

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While many posters have harped on "multi-role" qualities of Rafale, the fact remains that IAF's most critical need is air defence. IAF maintains a large enough fleet of DEDICATED attack aircraft (Jaguar, Mig-27).

The future attack fighter is LCA Tejas. The combat radius of 500km is adequate for 90% attack tasks that IAF will face in a possible war scenario. Su-30 will be used for the remaining 10%.

I see LCA Tejas armed with four laser guided bombs successfully carrying out attack missions.

The PAKFA that is tuned for air defence and air dominance roles is the best aircraft for India. This is the best replacement for retiring Mig-21s.
 
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sgarg

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:fkidding: You see it, when he is in Attack or you seen in a Picture ..!!
You cannot understand English. What is your qualification by the way? You seem a retard from your posts.
India will develop and progress on the strength of achievers, not retards like you.
 

SajeevJino

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You cannot understand English. What is your qualification by the way? You seem a retard from your posts.
India will develop and progress on the strength of achievers, not retards like you.
Sir, I completed my Higher secondary, now working as a Coolie

But can you please share the Photo of LCA carrying 4 LGB's
 

lookieloo

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I came to live with this fact when the first announcement came that the contract was delayed. :( After all that workshare and cost hassle. We should have signed this agreement last year.

Here's to hoping for a signature at the end of the year. Putin's coming to India this December.

Even with the delay of the first prototype, it doesn't look like the next two prototypes are going to be delayed.
Russia, India to Start Manufacture of First Test Models of T-50 Fighter Jet / Sputnik International Oh dear me... looks like 2016 is a wash too now. Sometime after 2018 appears to be the new date for India getting its first test-mule.
 

akshay m

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PAK FA Received Unique System of Main Engines Start
The engine of Russian multi-target fifth-generation fighter T-50 (PAK FA) can run without oxygen in contrast to previous planes that used oxygen replenishment, the General Director of holding "Aircraft Equipment" (part of the state corporation "Rostec") Maxim Kuzyuk noted.
"When creating the PAK FA we were tasked to provide oxygen-free starting. The plasma ignition system is installed in the main combustion chamber and afterburner. The innovation is integrated in the nozzle with a plasma system: it organizes plasma arc simultaneously with the filing of kerosene," RIA Novosti quoted Maxim Kuzyuk.
The system of main engines start and auxiliary power unit (APU) of PAK FA is called "unique" and "having no analogues in the world" by the spokesman.http://www.siberianinsider.com/pak-fa-received-unique-system-of-main-engines-start.html
 

akshay m

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Power supply system PAK FA twice as powerful analogues
The Russian fifth generation multirole fighter T-50 (PAK FA) system equipped with a DC power supply, which is two times more powerful than all the Russian counterparts, told RIA Novosti on Tuesday the general director of the holding company "Aircraft Equipment" (part of the state corporation "Rostec") Maxim Kuzyuk.

"For the fifth-generation aircraft holding company created a system DC power SPTSU-7.5, which is about twice as powerful as all existing Russian counterparts," - said Kuzyuk.

He noted that SPTSU-7.5 "converts the three-phase voltage variable frequency generator to a DC voltage 27 volts nominal capacity of more than 8 kW, providing the stability of all electronic systems and the safety of the aircraft."
"The weight of the new system in one and a half times less than that of counterparts," - said the head of the holding.
A similar system will be equipped with electricity and Russian-Indian fifth-generation aircraft FGFA, at the heart of which is laid, the PAK FA project.
PAK FA - Russia's fifth-generation multi-role fighter.The use of composite materials and innovative technologies, aerodynamic design aircraft, the characteristics of the engine provides unprecedented low level of radar, optical and infrared signature.As reported in January this year, the head of the "United Aircraft Corporation" Yuri Slyusarev, the corporation begins to supply the initial batch of fighter for the Russian Defense Ministry
Holding "Aircraft Equipment" is specialized in developing, manufacturing and after-sales service systems and units of aircraft.Additionally, the company produces parts and components for industries such as oil and gas, automotive, transport, energy."Aircraft Equipment" includes 35 companies located throughout Russia - Moscow, Moscow region, Ufa, Samara, Ulyanovsk, Omsk, Arkhangelsk region and other regions of Russia.Holding a part of the state corporation "Rostec."


РИА НовостиСистема электроснабжения ПАК ФА в два раза мощнее аналогов | РИА Новости
 

saik

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You should be aware that HAL will only do a screw driver on it. W.o. DRDO, it would not even come close to even a MKI kind of tailoring.
 

smestarz

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While many posters have harped on "multi-role" qualities of Rafale, the fact remains that IAF's most critical need is air defence. IAF maintains a large enough fleet of DEDICATED attack aircraft (Jaguar, Mig-27).

The future attack fighter is LCA Tejas. The combat radius of 500km is adequate for 90% attack tasks that IAF will face in a possible war scenario. Su-30 will be used for the remaining 10%.

I see LCA Tejas armed with four laser guided bombs successfully carrying out attack missions.

The PAKFA that is tuned for air defence and air dominance roles is the best aircraft for India. This is the best replacement for retiring Mig-21s.
The answer is in two parts.
a) PAKFA is not the replacement for MiG-21 nor is rafale. The replacement is Tejas, single seat, air superirotiy and point defence plance.
The cost of flying and maintaining a fleet of PAKFA and RAFALE will drain IAF of its resources, but on other hand India can buy and use more than 4 times the numbers for Tejas because of its lower operating and buying costs.

b) Role. PAKFA is an air dominance plane, but if you are able to put pylons with heavy ratings, then it can be a bomb truck (not stealthy though) and be able to carry heavy strike, also it has internal bays just in case remember. PAKFA/FGFA will be the sword that strikes the enemy deep. The second line is Su-30 MKI, Tejas and combination of Su-30 MKI will be shield which will defend the air space from intrusion

The most important role however is air-superiority and air dominance considering that Chinese have more times the planes that India has and they can sustain a higher attrition rate. The odds will be more in favour of india with PAKFA than Rafale which is mostly technology of yesteryears. The Rafale line is closing and PAKFA line is going to start, is it not proof of that?
 

akshay m

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you should be aware that hal will only do a screw driver on it. W.o. Drdo, it would not even come close to even a mki kind of tailoring.
were you never aware of it before


well the IAF wants the aircraft As soon as possible,especially since it is entering service in the russian airforce.
the aircraft is well and ready ,it make no sense to bring DRDO in and try to reinvent the wheel again,IT will take more time and money.let them focus on the AMCA
 
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grampiguy

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Indian quest for a two-seater Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA seems a bit anachronistic. Most nations are now focusing on sensor fusion and therefore, insisting on having a single-seater fighter in stealth aircraft. It saves on manpower, increases stealth and maneuverability and in future, this version can also be converted into a optionally manned one if needed. Hence, Indian expectation of paying USD $5.5 billion for further research doesn't seem justifiable.

Sukhoi T-50 is a single-seat fighter and has been tested extensively. Its AESA radar is working, the engine is from Su-35 which has thrust vector capabilities and can super-cruise. The stealth is working and maneuverability is quite significant. So, I would rather expect India to go ahead and conclude a license production contract with Sukhoi, on the lines of Su-30MKI contract. HAL can start producing them by next year and the first contract could be for only 45 aircraft with another 45 in options. Let the production start and IAF get its hands over the stealth aircraft, which it has had none so far. The contract will have stipulations that T-50 will be upgraded when new engine is certified and other technologies come on line.

The experience in production, operation and MRO would increase IAF's capabilities enormously, for SEAD/DEAD and stealth related operations. Then, over the next 5-7 years, if IAF wants to upgrade these T-50s, it can help build Sukhoi T-50MKI or anything else as the situation requires. It will also clarify IAF's doubts on whether T-50 is a true stealth fighter or just an improved Su-35? In case if the technology is similar to Su-30MKI and upgrade is possible, entire lot of Sukhoi-30MKI can be converted into stealth or near stealth fighters. The spin off would also be positive for the AMCA program. So its not the joint research for FGFA but the joint/licensed production of Sukhoi T-50 that is necessary NOW.
 
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