Sukhoi PAK FA

[Defcon 1]

Most of India's CAD problems are arising out of the stupid UPA govt policy of running massive deficit with China which baffles any strategic expert .

If a govt with spine assumes office in next elections it can easily curb this. For example india's trade deficit with China was around a billion or two. Now it is close to 40 billions or so.

The UPA allowed even boiler equipments for power projects to be imported from china citing a cheaper rate. Now with looming forex crisis and spiraling own rupee we can all see how any cost savings would have evaporated by now.

There are always incentives for foreign investors to come here and they will come because for another market the size of india thay have to go beyond Mars.

it is the stupid trade policies followed by UPA which has comeback to bite, if a new govt corrects this then there will be no dearth of investors confidence either.

So if remedial measures are taken ,"net inflows to CAD ratio was mere 100.7 percent" this will reverse itself

A case in point is the reopening of the Micromax mobile manufacturing unit in india a few months back.

Due to the stupid policy of levying just 7 percent duty on crap chinese handsets micromax 's indian manufacturing unit became unviable. Now after a slight duty hike from the govt and depreciating rupee the unit has gone on stream.

So reversing this net inflows to CAD ratio of 100.7 percent is not a herculean task either.

the depreciating currency alone solves most of the CAD problems and if govt takes more steps by giving concrete incentives for big FAB units then it can easily reverse this ratio.

So the size of Indian economy has nothing to do with any 5th gen fighter production.

I don't understand why do you keep talking about things you know nothing about. The company you are talking about is maxx, not micromax. Both are different, and the customs duty hike was from 1.34 percent to 7%, not 7% to higher up.

Rest of your post is not even worth replying. Study about CAD something first before coming back. And please refrain from replying to me in future. You are in my ignore list because I want to ignore you. Lets keep it that way.

 

[p2prada]

That is pure speculation at this point of time. With US economy recovering and EU getting out of crisis, not to mention Japan going for reflation, incentives for the investors to come to india are low. Not to mention that we are expected to run a CAD in near to medium term to incapability to curb down petro imports, a bulk of investments will use to finance CAD, latest data available showed net inflows to CAD ratio was mere 100.7 percent, i.e. current inflows are just enough to finance our imports.

Even the size of the economy won't be larger significantly. Compounding a 7.5 growth in terms of real GDP for 9 years, we find that our economy will only be 1.91 times the current size in 2022. But yes, a fifth gen project will be easier to handle than today.

I suppose I will take your word for it. Unless we start growing at 8%+ again, it won't matter anyway. I was looking at how China has grown the last decade, from over $1 Trillion in 2000 to around $6 Trillion in 2010 and around $8 Trillion today. That was a 600% growth without taking inflation into account. If we do even half that we would be at least three times more, of course with inflation not taken into the picture.

 

[Defcon 1]

I suppose I will take your word for it. Unless we start growing at 8%+ again, it won't matter anyway. I was looking at how China has grown the last decade, from over $1 Trillion in 2000 to around $6 Trillion in 2010 and around $8 Trillion today. That was a 600% growth without taking inflation into account. If we do even half that we would be at least three times more, of course with inflation not taken into the picture.

No no, you are making a mathematical mistake. GDP after 5% of growth compounded for 10 years will not be equal to half of that with 10% growth compounded for 10 years, it will be far lesser. Trying doing 1.05^10 and compare it with 1.10^10 using a calculator. You will get the results yourself. Real GDP growth negates the effect of inflation, so that is not a concern in any case.

 

[p2prada]

No no, you are making a mathematical mistake. GDP after 5% of growth compounded for 10 years will not be equal to half of that with 10% growth compounded for 10 years, it will be far lesser. Trying doing 1.05^10 and compare it with 1.10^10 using a calculator. You will get the results yourself. Real GDP growth negates the effect of inflation, so that is not a concern in any case.

I know that, I didn't do any mathematical calculations either. Just 6 trillion / 1 trillion = 6 times = 600%. If we grow even half the speed they did, that's 3 times where we are now, that's beyond plenty to handle a program like FGFA. I wasn't talking about "%" growth figures.

India was at $450 Billion in 2000 and rose to $1.6 Trillion in 2010. That's over 300% increase in 10 years. If we keep this up, there's no issues with Rafale and FGFA.

 

[Defcon 1]

I know that, I didn't do any mathematical calculations either. Just 6 trillion / 1 trillion = 6 times = 600%. If we grow even half the speed they did, that's 3 times where we are now, that's beyond plenty to handle a program like FGFA. I wasn't talking about "%" growth figures.

India was at $450 Billion in 2000 and rose to $1.6 Trillion in 2010. That's over 300% increase in 10 years. If we keep this up, there's no issues with Rafale and FGFA.

There is something fishy with that data. I used imf data on wiki. GDP for 2000 is given as $476 billion, for 2009 as 1.266 trillion, and for 2010 it suddenly jumps to 1.6 trillion. Even calculating mathematically, $450 billion to 1.6 trillion in 10 years requires a CAGR of 13.5%, that is unheard of no matter who is the measuring agency and which GDP calculation method they have used. What was your source?

PS: Are we deviating from the thread?
PPS: Apologies for not understanding your point.

 

[Defcon 1]

I know that, I didn't do any mathematical calculations either. Just 6 trillion / 1 trillion = 6 times = 600%. If we grow even half the speed they did, that's 3 times where we are now, that's beyond plenty to handle a program like FGFA. I wasn't talking about "%" growth figures.

India was at $450 Billion in 2000 and rose to $1.6 Trillion in 2010. That's over 300% increase in 10 years. If we keep this up, there's no issues with Rafale and FGFA.

Oh I got it now. I calculated the cumulative growth in GDP at current prices from 2000-2010 using Planning commission's data. I got the growth which gives a CAGR of very close to 13.5%. Which clearly means that GDP figures of 476 billion and 1.6 trillion are at current prices as well. What it essentially means is that when you are talking about growing to 300% in 10 years, you are already taking inflation into account, as opposed to what you said in post #2902. Our real growth has been much lower. It will be impossible to triple our economy in 10 years in real terms.

Now that I look back, on the wiki page, it is clearly said that imf data was not adjusted for inflation. All this work was unnecessary

 

[lookieloo]

RCS changes based on different conditions, especially range.

Tell us more about how RCS changes with range...

 

[p2prada]

What was your source?

India - GDP

PS: Are we deviating from the thread?

Big time.
Anyway we both got our point across.

 

[p2prada]

Tell us more about how RCS changes with range...

Radar RCS factors in power density and power density in turn factors in the range.

Formula for the computation of RCS.
Radar Basics - Radar Cross Section

For power density.
Radar Basics - The Radar Equation

The keys are explained.

Scroll down on the second link to eq 12 and that will give you range and RCS relation.

And this quote too,

The radar cross section, on the other hand, varies heavily but for practical purposes we will assume 1 m².

RCS is not a fixed figure. Go closer and the object's RCS only becomes bigger since power density also increases.

 

[lookieloo]

Radar RCS factors in power density and power density in turn factors in the range.

Formula for the computation of RCS.
Radar Basics - Radar Cross Section

For power density.
Radar Basics - The Radar Equation

The keys are explained.

Scroll down on the second link to eq 12 and that will give you range and RCS relation.

And this quote too,


RCS is not a fixed figure. Go closer and the object's RCS only becomes bigger since power density also increases.

That's only related to strength of return. I'm more interested in your theory about things spontaneously changing size depending on distance from your vantage point.

 

[gadeshi]

 

[p2prada]

That's only related to strength of return. I'm more interested in your theory about things spontaneously changing size depending on distance from your vantage point.

Please point it out?

I never said any such thing.

 

[lookieloo]

Please point it out?

I never said any such thing.

Suit yourself.

 

[Twinblade]

Drool.

 

[p2prada]

Drooling...

 

[Neil]

 

[Anshu Attri]

 

[Austin]

Differences crop up with Russia over fighter jet deal
The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Nation
Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service

New Delhi October 5

Difference of opinion has cropped up between long-term partners India and Russia over the prestigious project to jointly develop and produce the next generation fighter planes.

The two countries had agreed in 2010 to develop the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), which at $ 30 billion USD would be the biggest defence deal ever in the world.

The preliminary design contract (PDC) phase costing $ 295 million was completed on June 19. However, New Delhi and Moscow will take at least an year more to take the next step -- that is signing of the final design Research and Development (R&D) contract worth $ 11 billion. The draft contracts for the proposed R&D were exchanged in mid-2012. India's share is $ 5.5 billion.

Since then, developments have lost pace. Sources said India wants access to technical data and be a contributor in the R&D as that will enable its teams to get experience. Also, India is seeking a ban on the sale of the plane to other countries. Indian planners accept in private is that Russia, or any other country, would never part with engine design specifications and metallurgy. "India is looking to be more than a monetary contributor in the deal", said the source.

The IAF Chief, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne, confirmed yesterday that brakes had been put on the FGFA project, at least for now. "We are still working on the R&D contract. It will take one more year. Technical discussions are on. Till we get technical details, which we need to know, we cannot even get to the issue of discussing financial terms and conditions", the IAF Chief said.

The first hint of delay was when Russian President Vladimir Putin visited Delhi in December last year but the R&D contract was not signed.

The first induction was planned for 2022, but the assessment within the MoD is that it will be delayed. Four prototypes of the code-named 'PAK-FA' are already flying in Russia.

The plane has stealth features enabling it to be somewhat masked from enemy radars. It will have advanced features such as super-cruise, ultra-manoeuvrability, highly integrated avionics suite, enhanced situational awareness, internal carriage of weapons (that is under-carriage weapons will not be visible) and network centric warfare capabilities.

Only when the R&D contract is signed, the FGFA prototypes will be available in India. The first is slated in 2014. It will be flight-tested by Indian pilots and monitored by Indian engineers. Two more prototypes will follow in 2017 and 2019. The last will be the final version on which the FGFA will be based.

What India wants

Access to technical data and be a contributor in the research & development
This will enable its teams to get vital experience.
Ban on the sale of the plane to other countries.
The two countries had agreed in 2010 to develop the fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA)
At $30 billion, it was the biggest defence deal ever in the world

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

this one also is going the MRCA way..delay..delay..and more delay...

 

[Decklander]

This deal for Pak-Fa is not good for India. We must not press ahead with it and shud concentrate on our AMCA.