Sukhoi PAK FA

[p2prada]

Interesting, but there is only one source saying the same. I am pretty sure such big news would have splashed all over the internet in both Russia and India.

IMHO, 100% fake news.

 

[rahulrds1]

India commits $6 bn for developing stealth jet with Russia

India has committed an initial $6 billion for jointly developing a fifth-generation stealth combat jet with Russia, a project that will eventually cost the country $30 billion and envisages the manufacture here of 144 aircraft. The IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne, told India
Strategic defence magazine (www_indiastrategic.in) in an interview on the occasion of the IAF's 80th Anniversary Oct 8 that all these aircraft would be single seaters, the same which the Russian Air Force will have, but some components like onboard computers and systems would be different as in the case of the Sukhoi SU-30MKIs.

Now designated PMF, or Perspective Multirole Fighter, by Russia, the Indian aircraft would be made in India, Browne said, adding that discussions with the Russian government are already on.

India and Russia had signed an agreement in this regard Dec 21, 2011, to set up a 50:50 joint venture on the lines of BrahMos Aerospace and share development work.

India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), aided by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will partner Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) - which will provide the super cruise engines and certain stealth technologies - in the project.

Indian scientists are keen to pool in the R&D effort, and the agreement calls for joint development, particularly in design, guidance systems and onboard software. That means India will also have a proprietary share on Intellectual Property Rights (IPR).

The exact costing is yet to be worked out but, inclusive of the development costs, the figure could be around $30 billion, according to HAL sources.

Notably, a figure of 200-plus of two-seater version for India was considered earlier with possible induction from 2017 with an initial lot from Russia. Development in that time frame however is not happening.

To cut down on the development costs and the timelines, the IAF has plans to begin their induction from 2020 onwards, Air Chief Marshal Browne said.

Discussions with Russia are on to sign the first R&D phase, and the first prototype is likely to be delivered to India in 2014, followed by two more in 2017 and 2019. The series production "will only be ordered based on the final configuration and performance of the third prototype".

The air chief observed that speed, reach and precision are the keywords for the IAF's transformation that is now on.

He noted that various acquisition programmes of the IAF were going on as normal and so were the upgrade programmes. The IAF had already spent around Rs. $30 billion in the last five years and that there was adequate budgetry support to execute its transformation programmes by 2027, when all the 42 combat squadrons sanctioned by the government will be operational.

He reiterated that he expected the deal for 126 French Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft (MRCA) to be finalised by March 2013. There are virtually daily meetings between the aircraft partners, Dassault, Thales and engine maker Snecma on the one side and IAF, HAL and defence ministry representatives on the other.

On the legacy aircraft, he said that while the Soviet-vintage IL-76 and AN-32 transport aircraft were already under upgrades to give them an extended life of 10 to 15 years, the tender to upgrade the IAF's 100-odd Jaguar aircraft with new engines was about to be issued - likely by October-end - to Honeywell of the US.

IAF tenders for combat and heavy-lift helicopters and midair refuellers have already been opened over three weeks beginning mid-September. While the combat helicopter deal has gone to Boeing for its Apache AH-64D because Russia withdrew its Mi-28 helicopter, the winner of the other two would be decided on the basis of lifecycle costs. Calculations were being done now, and it should take a couple of months in each case to declare the winner.

Notably, all the aircraft deals with the Soviet Union/ Russia so far have been on a government-to-government basis, including for the new fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA). This is the first time that Russian aircraft - Mi-26 heavy-lift vs Boeing CH 47F Chinook, and the Il-78 against the Airbus MRTT - are pitted in global competitions in India, involving mandatory offsets. If the Russians win, they will have to do what is required by the DPP (Defence Procurement Procedure) and invest 30 percent of the deal back in the Indian defence industry.

The (FGFA) programme began in 2006 and this, as also the deal for the Indian Navy's 45 MiG-29 shipboard fighters, is exempt from offsets. The MiG-29 programme is part of the INS Vikramaditya (Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier's acquisition programme, signed well before the DPP came into place.

[HindustanTimes]
www_hindustantimes.com/India-news/NewDelhi/India-commits-6-bn-for-developing-stealth-jet-with-Russia/Article1-942444.aspx

 

[ersakthivel]

The F-22 has battled (virtually in war games) and has an AMAZING record of taking out many enemies without them ever knowing the F-22 was in the area. One aspect that the F-22 shares with the F-35 (besides the LPI radar) is it's automatic LPI/LPD datalinks. In other words, a F-22 that is 100+ miles away can be using it's radar and feeding it's tracks to the much closer F-22 who is not using his radar. The target "may" get a hint of the F-22 100 miles away, but he will likely never see the one who actually shoots a missile at him.

My question is how is the F-22 using it's radar will remain stealth? Once it starts using it's radars it will be shot down easily using radar homming missiles.

1.War games don't change the fact that 200km BVrs have an effective range of 20 odd km or less in low altitudes, for a evasive action taking aircraft. So for a sure kill against evasive, diving 4th gen aircraft with advanced missile approach warning equipment, F-22 has to come within the visual and IRST range of 4th gen fighter.No amount of wargaming will change that.

3.L band asea LPis of tomorrow will give the position of F-22 with some accuracy with triangulating algorithms from multiple aircrafts

4.And the weakest link in the 5th gen chain is the communication update between BVR and launching F-22.It can easily jammed using L band arrays of PAKFA. ALso the monopulse seekers of BVR s are jammable using DFRM modern jammers.

SO the super maneuverability with optimum stealth approach of PAKFA will win out in the future over all or nothing stealth approach of F-22.

 

[average american]

Air Power is more then just the F22, and the F22 that is going to be fireing the missles is not going to be the F22 that has the radar lock. What you all fail to understand is the F22 is a revolution in air power, not just an advancement like the PAKFA. Secrets of Future Airpower [HD] - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnUwxDhE1kU&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Sh1SAaJz0&feature=related

 

[ersakthivel]

Air Power is more then just the F22, and the F22 that is going to be fireing the missles is not going to be the F22 that has the radar lock. What you all fail to understand is the F22 is a revolution in air power, not just an advancement like the PAKFA. Secrets of Future Airpower [HD] - YouTube

Dogfights of the Future - YouTube

Battle Stations - FA-22 Raptor - YouTube

The F-22 is stealth to x band only.
The BVR missile's communication and their vulnerabilities to 4th gens ew package will remain forever.
Unless 5th gen uses direct energy weapon it is no new age craft.

It is a step up in evading x band radars prevalent on 4.5 gen fighters.

if stealth UCAVS with triangulating l band vhf band payloads along with IRST payloads accompany any armed to teeth 4.5 gen fighter fleet all the advantages of so called 5th gen are non existant as they carry lesser number of missiles and F-22 wont detect stealth UCAVs first due to lower heat and radar signature of ucavs.

SO invading F-22 fleet's position will be known to 4.5gen fleet fairly accurately within a decade.

It is based on this premises the PAKFA trades a bit of all aspect stealth to gain some advantage in the region of super manueverability based on the existing flanker design and most importantly at lesser cost so that a fair number of higher BVR carrying super manueverable PAKFAS can be deployed against lower no of F-22s for the same cost.

I am not going for one on one comparision .If you compare the total future x band stealth defeating EW system(L band ,VHF band along with IRST carrying stealth UCAVS ) and higher number of more BVR carrying PAKFAs for the ssame cost of fewer no of F-22 the superiority is not much significant so as to seal the outcome of the battle.

 

[average american]

The F22 and F35 are the sixth and seventh operational steath planes built by the USA over the last 35 years. Its wishful thinking that they are going defeated by something as simple as changing the radar bands that are used. The IRST signatures have been greatly reduced. The same with many other features that go into makeing a plane stealthy. Present day air to air missiles are much more effective and long range compared to the missiles from twenty and thirty years ago....the technology has doubled every 18 months. There is a also a differance in ground radar detecting a plane, another plane detecting a plane and getting a missile lock on a plane.

While the F22 and F35 may not be every thing they say it is, though I will be greatly surprised it if they dont contain weapons that are secret so far, other wise I can think of no other reason that we would not sell the F22. I do expect there is some kind of direct energy weapon on at least the F22.

I suspect what is driving Russia and India in the direction of developing the T50 and PAKFA is not that they are going to be comparable to the F22 and F35 but poltical, social an econmic issues. Stopping production of the T50 for Russia would catastrophic in that the USSR is still dependent on weapon productions.

 

[ersakthivel]

The F22 and F35 are the sixth and seventh operational steath planes built by the USA over the last 35 years. Its wishful thinking that they are going defeated by something as simple as changing the radar bands that are used. The IRST signatures have been greatly reduced. The same with many other features that go into makeing a plane stealthy. Present day air to air missiles are much more effective and long range compared to the missiles from twenty and thirty years ago....the technology has doubled every 18 months. There is a also a differance in ground radar detecting a plane, another plane detecting a plane and getting a missile lock on a plane.

While the F22 and F35 may not be every thing they say it is, though I will be greatly surprised it if they dont contain weapons that are secret so far, other wise I can think of no other reason that we would not sell the F22. I do expect there is some kind of direct energy weapon on at least the F22.

I suspect what is driving Russia and India in the direction of developing the T50 and PAKFA is not that they are going to be comparable to the F22 and F35 but poltical, social an econmic issues. Stopping production of the T50 for Russia would catastrophic in that the USSR is still dependent on weapon productions.

Even the makers of F-22 and F-35 claim they are only 5th fighters and their shape is optimized for Low RCs emissions against the widely prevalent X band radars of the 90s.Only you are claiming it as stealth,going many steps above the maker's claim!!!!!!
The makers never claimed as stealth to all radio waves in the first place.

The Jet blast from 300 kn engine cannot be concealed by IRST reduction measures on the engine and tail surface.It is against the laws of thermodynamics to claim they are IRST STEALTH.hEAT AND WORK DONE cannot be separated in IC engines or jet engines.Today's IRST homming on BVRs store the thermal image intensified heat map of the fighter's surface and they cannot be defeated by flairs or turning into the sun as in old days.

Also any L band radar can give the angle and distance of F-22 which will present it's true 3 sq.met RCS to L band radar. Also TYPHOONs can detect today's BVrs just short of their maximum range according to it's makers. SO all the typhoon has to do is turn away after the F-22 launches it's missile and come back after the missile is expended.

And counter measures against BVRs will continue to improve forcing the 5th gen to fight within WVR battles. the BVRs can never be effective in their max range.This is confirmed by prestigious think tanks like RAND.

With VHF and fast improving L band in ASEA mode the superiority of 5th gen in general will continue to decline.That's why T-50 is built to give a good account even in WVR using the flanker design's superlative agility.And pay load carrying capacity.

If F-22 has direct energy weapons nothing will prevent systems going against F-22 from having the same.ALso can you say how the F-22 will detect small stealth UCAVs that will fly 100 kms in front of the 4.5th gen fleet.CAN F-22 escape being pinpointed by these small stealth UCAVs? If F-22 is invincible to plain jane 4th gen then stealth UCAVs too will be invisible to F-22.

"The technological capability doubles every 18 months" is the moores law for electronics,not for BVrs.They can never go past mach 4 or 5 as even ballistic missiles can reach only speeds of mach 12+.Longer the range, weaker they are at terminal stage due to more and more deadweight on them in the homming period.A 250 Kg missile just having 5 or 6 kg fuel at the terminal point can never hope to double it's performance every 18 months.

What they will do is to force the opposing fighter to mommenarily back off for a duration of missile flight time.Then air battle will continue.The missile approach warning systems on 4.5 gen fighters will deal a big blow to low weapon weight carrying 5th gens like F-22s.

http://theaviationist.com/2012/07/23/f-22-raptor-kill-markings/

The F-22 flies 2000 km and while it is at the business end of it's sortie and launches it's 6 or 7, 150 + kms BVrs at their extreme range if it finds the typhoon evades all of them with warnings at 100 kms,then the F-22 cannot abandon the battlefield.That's why TYPHOON pilots in the exercise say "THe F-22 pilots were surprised to find them at WVR of 20 kms" and one of them remarked that they had F-22 SALADs for the lunch.

SO the SUKHOI PAKFA is one up on the TYPHOON and it will give a much better account in duels with F-22

SUKHOIs and HAL are plane makers like LM ,so they will always make a technologically better plane as LM claims it's planes are.DO you expect SUKHOI ,CHENDU and HAL will be shut without making next best plane ever in the future?

Countries possesing nuclear missiles not making next best planes made by the americans in 1990s even in 2020!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[average american]

Hmm, is that the reason why Malaysia chose Su-30MKMs over F-18 Super Hornets?

I expect its price, Russian arms lag behind NATO and China's weaponry – army chief — RT

 

[ice berg]

Actually it is about not laying all your eggs in one basket. Sometimes when it comes to procurements, politics are just as important, if not more.

Iraq also buys both from US and USSR. Having multiple suppliers means more leverage during negotiations.

 

[p2prada]

I expect its price, Russian arms lag behind NATO and China's weaponry – army chief — RT

Nope. Turned out that while costs of the heavy aircraft(MKM) was lesser than the medium aircraft(SH) by as much as three times, the MKM was also far superior to the SH. Actually the American pilots and others around the world claim that an aircraft like the MKM and MKI are superior to the F-15 Eagle too.

So, the Russians have value for money and built a system superior to American equivalents. This is not the first time though. It is well known that Russian missile technology is far superior to American missile technology and will most probably maintain this lead for decades to come. Beyond that the Russians have built the best operational Nuclear Submarine to date, the Yasen class. This is one field where the Russians have taken the lead.

Actually the Americans are said to be ahead of Russia only because after the downfall of the Soviet Union the Russian electronics industry was badly hit while the American industry thrived. After a gap of 10 years Russia restarted all industries and in the mean time they bought Israeli and French equipment to fill the void. During the last 5 years the Russians have been delivering systems that are on par with what the west has been delivering. While the west may be ahead, the Russians are not as backward as you think, the advantage is only slight.

As a matter of fact, only people with ZERO knowledge about military technology regard the Russian technology at the same level as where you believe it is. And you know very well that you do have ZERO knowledge about military technology let alone Russian technology.

Something for you to learn from,
Today is the 25th anniversary of climbing record, set using Su-27 aircraft - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

Today is the 25th anniversary of climbing record, set using Su-27 aircraft

Today is the 25th anniversary of climbing record, set using Su-27 aircraft. The test pilot of Sukhoi Company, Viktor Pugachev, has set the world record in climbing at the altitude of 3000 meters (25.4 sec) on October 27th 1986. This record is still unbeaten, the company reports. AEX.ru

The pilot has reached the altitude of 6, 9 and 12 km in 37,1; 47,0 and 58,1 seconds on November 15th 1986, improving the previous records of American pilot R.Smith, set using F-15 fighter, by more than 2 seconds.
Pugachev has set a total of 13 world records during his career, 8 of them were set in 1986. One of the aerial stunts has been named after Pugachev – "Pugachev's Cobra", first demonstrated to the public in 1989 during Le Bourget airshow, the company noted.

70 world records have been set using Sukhoi aircraft and 30 of them remain unbeaten. The highest number of records is connected with legendary Su-27 fighter – 51. 6 records have been set using Su-9, 4 records – on Su-24M and 8 ones – on Su-34.

Geee!!! I wonder what it means by a World Record.

Oh! Wait. World Record means beating the next best, American aircraft to achieve said world record.

Gee. Many of the World records still remain intact even after the arrival of the F-22, EF-2000 and Rafale. I wonder why?

You see, it is actually nice to learn actual history before BSing on a forum where people know the difference between facts and BS.

Su-27 FLANKER

The development of the Su-27 fighter plane was completed in the early 1980s, and the plane subsequently set more than 40 world records of altitude and take-off-speed. Between 1986 and 1990, using a specially configured prototype aeroplane T10-15, which became known as P-42, the design bureau's test pilots established 41 IAF-registered world records of rate-of-climb and flight altitude, some of the records being absolute.

So, keep your nonsense to yourself.

 

[hit&run]

Why I am feeling like rather than an Average Amriki he is Average Chini or Pakistani.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Enough of thread derailment ! All "America is the best" posts will be discussed here http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...rity-american-weapons-tactics.html#post595727

Violations will result in infractions

 

[Defcon 1]

Interesting, but there is only one source saying the same. I am pretty sure such big news would have splashed all over the internet in both Russia and India.

IMHO, 100% fake news.

Livefist has now reported it as well, although they quote the same source.

 

[p2prada]

Livefist has now reported it as well, although they quote the same source.

Livefist is a copy paste news source.

Anyway, time will tell.

 

[ersakthivel]

Livefist
well,well,well.
The IAF is having a "DISCOVERY OF NEW RUSSIA" in the name of PAKFA deal.They deserve nothing more than this.The russians are showing an upgraded version of sukhoi with no 5th gen engine,no 5th gen avionics ,no 5th gen LPI ASEA and exposed compressor face with no serpentine intake.And now IAF realizes the pakfa's first real 5th gen version will fly only in 2020( and for that too only if HAL and ADA should put their head together) inductions won't happen before 2025.

Because no aerospace power in this world can hone the development of 5th gen engine, 5th gen avionics , 5th gen LPI ASEA,and 5th gen true stealth shaping in 10 years time .And if IAF's true LCA standards are applied the PAKFA wont get FOC before 2025.

For IAF which is used to shafting the ADA by denigrating LCA as mig-21++ it must be a new world of discovery ,I think.That's why they have quietly dropped their two seat fantasies and prudently pared down the order to just 144 single seats.Now IAF must have realized that the lesser price of PAKFA is another great con perpetrated on them by russians because no customer other than IAF will pay money fror a non existing fighter 12 years in advance whose none of the critical tech is ready.

Just compare that to IAF's staunch refusal to set aside not even a sigle ruppe from it's budget for LCA forcing the ADA's FCS team to work in snake infested remote buildings.They truly deserve this con .

Even ADA put up a true tech demo within 7 years of funding. By the time PAKFA reaches anywhere close to 5th gen our own AMCA will be ready with much better fly by light tech,all electrical actuators and serpentine intake and 100 percent stealth.

The IAf wrote letter after letter to MOD resulting in the slashing of funding of LCA and reducing it to 2 tech demos and PVs only after that.Now why are they funding russian R&D 12 years in advance ?

Does the rssians promise fly by light tech,all electrical actuators and serpentine intake and 100 percent stealth in their PAKFA/ NO.WHy they have suddenly MODIFIED THEIR GLORIFIED ASR from TWO SEATER version to SINGLE SEAT version?
Why didn't the IAF chief denigrate the PAKFA's first flight as sukhoi ++? with no engine,no avionics and no serpentine intake,no fly by light,no 100 percent stealth?

The then IAf chief P.V.NAIK insisted on AMCA being 100 percent stealth,But IAF is keeping quiet on no serpentine intake on PAKFA.

So why is IAF not calling out loud that the PAKFA that flew a few months back was not 5th gen,but only a prototype airframe?

The avionics make the 5th gen fighter.If HAL and ADA are gonna be roped in for that purpose why are we paying russians 15 years in advance?

 

[ersakthivel]

Have the IAF been shown the real progress made on PAKFA's engnie?
Will it be reliable?if not they should object like the way they did on GTRE-SNECMA deal and force a third party technical audit on it.Will the russians agree?
If you discourage your own r&D ,it only pays you right to be conned by other nations.
The IAF is patiently evaluating MMRCA for 7 years.The french hasn't given in to indian demands and the deal is yet to be signed.
No one will transfer their hard earned tech to you.The IAF should pay the money and MOD should support indigenous tech development.
Otherwise INDIANs will be considered the original clowns of ,"WORLD ARMS MARKET CIRCUS".
wORLD WILL LAUGH AT A COUNTRY THAT WILL DRIVE IT'S OWN ENGINNERS TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES WITH DISCOURAGING LOCAL R&D.
But at the same time fund the russian R&D with payments 12 years in advance,with no questions asked on the final product.
SO how come the IAF downscaled it's two seater 214 order to 144 single seater order for PAKFA?
Have they changed their airwar doctrine so quickly?

 

[sukhish]

it sure seems like we are again sucked up by the russians.

 

[bhramos]

 

[ersakthivel]

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has decided the number of Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFAs) at 144, down from an earlier estimate of about 200.

Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne told India Strategic in an interview on IAF's 80th Anniversary that all these aircraft would be single seaters, the same which the Russian Air Force will have but some components like onboard computers and systems would be different as in the case of SU 30 MKIs.

Now designated PMF, or Perspective Multirole Fighter by Russia, the Indian aircraft would be made in India with Russian assistance, he said adding that discussions with the Russian Government are already on.

India's HAL, which will manufacture the Indian version of the aircraft, has already earmarked US$ six billion for initial expenses in joint development with Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), which will provide the super cruise engines and certain stealth technologies.

India and Russia had signed an agreement in this regard 21 Dec 2011, to set up a 50:50 joint venture on the lines of BrahMos Aerospace and share development work. HAL will be aided by DRDO.

Indian scientists are keen to pool in Research and Development (R&D) effort, and the agreement calls for joint development, particularly in design, guidance systems and onboard software. That means India will also have a proprietary share on Intellectual Property Rights (IPR).

The exact costing is yet to be worked out but inclusive of the development costs, the figure could be around USD 30 billion, according to HAL sources.

Notably, a figure of 200-plus of two-seater version for India was considered earlier with possible induction from 2017 with an initial lot from Russia. Development in that time frame however is not happening.

The number of aircrafts have been reduced from 200 plus twin seater to 144 single seater,But "NO WORDS ABOUT THE PRICE OF AIRCRAFT".So nobody will ever know for what we are paying? and how much?


And no reduction from the earmarked 6 billion initial estimate of HAl.SO will the price of FFGA also go the gorshkov way?

Avionics and sensors cost almost half the price of 5th gen aircraft.If we buy PAKFA without them ,what will be the price we have to pay?
Have we paid it in advance or it will be paid in future when we receive actual fighters?

The prototype that flew has no stealth charecteristics.Two straight inlets with a RCS redustion bumps,and a radar blocker that is in service in SUPER HORNET is proposed to block the compressor face.Canted fins with not much of a planform arrangement seen on F-22,Not better than J-20 which had more streamlined look in front at least by merging of serpentine inlets into .the fuselage smoothly.

The Indian version is considerably different than RUSSIAN,it seems,So HAL and DRDO should do major share of sensor fusion,mission computers,avionics, etc.So induction is not likely before 2025,it seems.So a major rework is neede to make it comply with stealth and it is proposed to be done by HAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!.Not even ADA.

How many 4.5 gen fighters HAl has designed and produced? So what is the realistic timeframe for FGFA?Will it complete it's 4000 testflights and obtain FOC by 2025.Never.

Because major jobs are still left to do.No one knows where the internal bomb bays are? How will HAL treat the staright inlet's stealth reduction? AND what is it's past track record?The russian PAKPA is more like a PHOTO OPP than TECH DEMO.SO IAF is sanguine in reducing it's numbers.But the problem is will it also lessen the project's total cost?

In BRAHMOS joint venture we are yet to receive the tech for making turbofan engine in travandram BRAHMOS factory,We make only launchers and guidance system according to V.K.SAraswath,In an interview he said production of BRAHMOS turbo fan engine will be taken up from 2011 onwards.

Will FGFA to go the same way ? Pay money 12 years in advance ,and receive no critical tech 10 years after induction,and make the mission computer avionics all yourself?Then why people call them Joint ventures?

SO what will be the total cost of 144 fighters? same as 250 plus are 40 percent less as it logically should be?
If the 144 fighters cost same as 250 fighters then we must assume it is cost overrun.We have to wait for clarification though.

 

[ersakthivel]

FGFA-Quantum Leap For Indian Aerospace::Strategic Defence

Some encouraging writeups on this site regarding FGFA.But it says the cost of each plane will be about 100 million dollars only!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
If this is true then it will be a huge boost for IAF.And it says that IAF ASR for the plane will be more stringent and IAF has suggested 44 improvements in it's version of FGFA,including masking of the engine by Inlet.This is supposed to be done by HAL-DRDO combine.SO we may not have to pay the price for this modification to russians.

The writer too seems to be of some repute,so it is better be authentic unlike indian writers unloading their bullshit on LCA.
And this article says that the reason for dropping two seat version is that it compromises stealth and adds extra weight and reduces performance. Good that IAF got down from it's hobby horse of two seat fighters that would have resulted in further delays and cost escalation.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd's Ozar facility at Nashik in western India will get three prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019 and IAF test pilots will be evaluating it. Good unlike the GORSKOV debacle, it is good for IAF to get it's hand on prototypes and nick in bud if there are any issues.

So the program seems to be going well.Only factor we should keep in mind is how much will be the flyaway cost?Wish all the luck for the program,but it's cost must not be higher because india too is a partner and it will do it's share of work in airframe modification and composites,avionics and sensors.Even the asea radar on it can be indian if we believe that LCA mk-II may have asea radar on it.So it must help it to keep the costs at reasonable level.

So hopefully it won't be benchmarked much higher than RAFALE's flyaway cost,because india can do major share of soft skill work on FGFA,unlike outright purchase in case of RAFALE.Hope this project will speed up our own AMCA and contribute handsomely to upgradation of tejas -mk-II and in stealth tejas MK-III.But why has the IAF reduced the order numbers to 144?