Sukhoi PAK FA

[Defcon 1]

Only an idiot would buy into the Russian Indian PAK-FA concept, and remember you get what you pay for and in the case of the Tejas you got an maybe F16 type plane fifty years after the USA started produceing them. The Sukhoi PAK FA and FGFA are not fifth generation aircraf and its going to be a disaster. Calling plane a stealth plane does not make it a stealth plane. an the PAK FA is not a stealth plane.

Broadsword: Delays, challenges for Indo-Russian fighter

India's Version of Sukhoi T-50 Delayed by Two Years - RP Defense

By the time this disaster ends the Vikramaditya will look like a steal......Russian aircraft carrier delivery to India delayed | Reuters

PAK FA has never claimed to be a stealth plane. Russians focus more on maneuverability. Maybe if you really took some time to read about PAK FA, you will understand their doctrine. And Rest of your post doesn't make any sense. F35 has also been delayed. Does that make it a failed project as well?? The truth is simple, there is not much information on the capabilities of PAK FA, and even less on that of FGFA. So, jumping right conclusions will always get you to the wrong side. Take time to read, and let the platforms mature. In due course we will know which plane is better.

 

[p2prada]

PAK FA has never claimed to be a stealth plane.

PAKFA is claimed to be a stealth plane. We just don't know how stealthy it is. All we know is it has AESA radar, stealth shaping, internal bays and canted tail fins.

Take time to read, and let the platforms mature. In due course we will know which plane is better.

Yes, it is very important to wait for further information before jumping to conclusions. The 4th prototype will be very important for the progress of the project.

The 360 deg radar capability on the FGFA alone will push it beyond the F-22. Had there been two pilots instead of one, heck we probably wouldn't even need AEWCs for battlespace management.

 

[Defcon 1]

PAKFA is claimed to be a stealth plane. We just don't know how stealthy it is. All we know is it has AESA radar, stealth shaping, internal bays and canted tail fins.



Yes, it is very important to wait for further information before jumping to conclusions. The 4th prototype will be very important for the progress of the project.

The 360 deg radar capability on the FGFA alone will push it beyond the F-22. Had there been two pilots instead of one, heck we probably wouldn't even need AEWCs for battlespace management.

What I meant was focus is not on stealth unlike US which puts stealth over everything else.

 

[Singh]

What I meant was focus is not on stealth unlike US which puts stealth over everything else.

The focus is on stealth.

 

[Defcon 1]

The focus is on stealth.

The articles I have read indicate otherwise. You got anything to support your point?

Here is something to keep things in perspective.

Beyond Visual Range – Stealth Fighters in Asia | Defense Update Portal

 

[Singh]

The articles I have read indicate otherwise. You got anything to support your point?

Which articles ?

And you must understand Russia and US have different concepts of Stealth. I'll give you an example from the early days of Space Race, US couldn't get their pens to work in zero gravity, ergo they spent millions to develop an ink which could be used in space, Soviets just used pencils.

 

[Defcon 1]

Which articles ?

And you must understand Russia and US have different concepts of Stealth. I'll give you an example from the early days of Space Race, US couldn't get their pens to work in zero gravity, ergo they spent millions to develop an ink which could be used in space, Soviets just used pencils.

I have edited my previous post. Do you have something to support that Russians are still focussing on stealth in PAK FA?

 

[p2prada]

The articles I have read indicate otherwise. You got anything to support your point?

Here is something to keep things in perspective.

Beyond Visual Range – Stealth Fighters in Asia | Defense Update Portal

This article talks only of speculation and the author is underrating stealth. This article is primarily dealing with how stealth is useless and provides useless analogies for the same. You can discard it without a thought.

We have our own engineers claiming they will go for a single seat design because a two seat design compromises RCS by 15%.

You only give a 5th gen tag to a fighter when stealth is incorporated into the design.

 

[Defcon 1]

This article talks only of speculation and the author is underrating stealth. This article is primarily dealing with how stealth is useless and provides useless analogies for the same. You can discard it without a thought.

We have our own engineers claiming they will go for a single seat design because a two seat design compromises RCS by 15%.

You only give a 5th gen tag to a fighter when stealth is incorporated into the design.

I am not saying that PAK FA will not be stealthy. However, articles like these and many others have repeatedly indicated that focus is not on stealth in PAK FA. Also its RCS is supposed to be higher than that of F35. Now, I know that can't be proved, but over the past one year I have read several articles indicating that and my claims reflect the cumulative understanding that has been formed after reading them.

 

[p2prada]

I am not saying that PAK FA will not be stealthy. However, articles like these and many others have repeatedly indicated that focus is not on stealth in PAK FA. Also its RCS is supposed to be higher than that of F35. Now, I know that can't be proved, but over the past one year I have read several articles indicating that and my claims reflect the cumulative understanding that has been formed after reading them.

I don't know anything about shaping. I also read that PAKFA's shaping does not give it much capability against ground based radars when it comes to SEAD missions like the F-35 or to a certain extent the F-22. There is no data on the F-35 or the PAKFA to say which of them will be stealthier, and in what roles. We do know that PAKFA has sacrificed some level of stealth for maneuverability. I don't know what was lost in this aspect either. Then again, it is mostly speculation from sources that have nothing to do with the PAKFA program.

What we do know is F-22's most important criteria for low RCS comes from shaping while Sukhoi said their primary criteria for low RCS would be materials and RAM. So, you can say there will be a difference in how a low RCS will be achieved.

It is too early to say anything except for the fact that the PAKFA is going to be stealthy because it has conventional shaping, weapons bays and canted tail fins. These three factors will tell you it is a fifth gen aircraft. Any aircraft without these three features would mean it is not going to be a particularly stealthy aircraft.

 

[average american]

1 Myth, there was no such thing as space pens, Urban Myths: NASA Space Pen NASA spent millions of dollars developing an "astronaut pen" which would work in outer space while the Soviets solved the same problem by simply using pencils. The lesson of this anecdote is a valid one, that w

2 If you go to Mars there is one ton vehicle running around up there that requires far more complicated technology then the F22 and F35, so what problems there are will be worked out, but with the US free press you will hear about every one. With Russia India will learn about the problems when the plane crashs. Which as you recall they do that a lot. Russian plane crash kills 31, exposes safety record | Reuters

3 The T50 is about 5000 times less stealthy then the F22, http://www.f-16.net/news_topic151.html

 

[sayareakd]

I think no one can deny fact that Russians have Radars and years of experiance in making fighters, so lets wait for some time, till they show final version of their 5G fighter. Lets not be judgmental before that.

 

[p2prada]

2 If you go to Mars there is one ton vehicle running around up there that requires far more complicated technology then the F22 and F35

Nope, not even close. Making that one ton rover and launching it to mars is nothing compared to the engineering feat required for aircraft like F-22 and F-35.

The oldest attempts to send rovers to mars was done by the Soviet Union back in 1971. Mars 3 was a near success. Had it not been for a freak dust storm that cut off communication after it landed.

If you did not know (I am sure you don't anyway) the current Mars rover is the 7th such project, not the 1st.

In a decade from now, every Tom, Dick and Harry with a rocket will have plans to send rovers to mars.

That mars rover is nothing but complicated, it is a simple small car carrying some electronics if you compare it to the F-35.

 

[SajeevJino]

3 The T50 is about 5000 times less stealthy then the F22, http://www.f-16.net/news_topic151.html

I accept F22 is a best fighter in the world ..and a best combat plane with steath tech only in exercises...F22 joins USAF after 2000...
and US attended some wars and special missions ..but there is no records still there It plays a role...

* my main doubts is cost of flying ..but it continualy joins some Flight exercises..

* Euro fighter typhoon beats f-22 raptor in super dog fight? - Yahoo! Answers So F22 lacks of Air dominance capablity...
if comparing the Air dominance capablity of T 50 is awesomeAssessing the Sukhoi PAK-FA / Sukhoi/KnAAPO T-50/I-21/Article 701 PAK-FA Перспективный Авиационный Комплекс Фронтовой Авиации

that answer's are enough for defeating F22 in real scenario.....

F22 is compared to only with the Su 47 not the T50...

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

The concept of STEALTH in F-35 is just a stunt to make the world countries to invest their money in the research of F-35 as America is lacking a little of the money to waste on the research.........

 

[p2prada]

The concept of STEALTH in F-35 is just a stunt to make the world countries to invest their money in the research of F-35 as America is lacking a little of the money to waste on the research.........

Let's give credit where it is due. F-35 is a stealth aircraft, through and through.

 

[natarajan]

india launched chandrayan but still does have icbm or proper fighter excluding tejas which is yet to get foc

 

[ersakthivel]

The ISRo started it's existnance in the sixties ,that's why we had chandriyan recently.The ADA started it's existence in 1983 with a mere 500 crores for infrastructure. Only after the demise of USSR ,people started looking at LCA as a serious alternative and 5000 cr funding for two TDs were released in 1993 at the insistence of scientific adviser to the PM ABDUl KALAM.That's why it is late. Same for ICBM IGMDP started much later that's why we have no ICBM yet.
So there is no substance in statements like sending chandriyan is easy and making a mere 4th gen fighter with engine is difficult.
If we started early with a seriousness we could easily have managed much earlier.
Even the much criticized KAVERI engine is now up and running with 70+ kn thrust,17 years from serious research start date like any other jet engine.
Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: World-Beaters: The fly-by-wire FCS will take India to new heights (Part-III-B)
Tarmak007 -- A bold blog on Indian defence: World-Beaters: The fly-by-wire FCS will take India to new heights (Part-III-B)

FCS story from ADE (Part-III-A)



The above two links give authentic info about LCA's flyby wire tech, people worked under what conditions to achiev it.
In 1993 the fly by wire team had 4 designers and four testers and the demeaning working condition they were working in.
"WORKING IN A REMOTE BUILDING LITTERED WITH SNAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

WHILE government poured thousands of crores on decrepit russian fighters,
just 8 guys were fearing snakes in 1993.They were the FCS team!!!!!!!!!!!

There were snakes and no one is allowed to be iinside the premises after 6.00 P.M.
Once ABDUL KALAM during a visit personaly encountered snakes and then only thins changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here people are saying billions of dollars were poured into tejas by 1993 and every one in ADA is incompetent,while 8 people of fly by wire team were fielding snakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This was how the program was treated by IAF and MOD.

This link gives deep info all original ,(not somebody's imagination) reports about tejas.

So this was how seriously the program was run in the eighties and nineties,

The BARc started earlier, and we are only the second nation in the world which has a working model of fast breeder reactor.

 

[ersakthivel]

In fact if we look at the list of countries that have space missions and 4th gen fighters it is always the same
1.USA
2.RUSSIA
3.EU
4.FRANCE
5.CHINA
6.INDIA

Even the chinese are struggling with the jet engine, because the WS engine program started later than the space program,same for india too with LCA and KAVERI.
All the other nations in the list have parallel jet engine programs,fighter programs, and space missions from the 70s. That's why they have the lead.

 

[average american]

The concept of STEALTH in F-35 is just a stunt to make the world countries to invest their money in the research of F-35 as America is lacking a little of the money to waste on the research.........

Well its the sixth operational version of the same stunt developed for over 30 years. Another stunt is the 120 D coated stealth missile. The USA exports a AIM-120C7 missiles for foreign military sales, what is interesting it contains a aircraft avoidance system for american aircraft. The range of the 120 D is a hundred or more miles, and the new version can use IF, Radar, or Optical. 80 percent of kills are now before the pilot even know they are detected, am sure that will increase. PK kill rate is now over 90 percent.