Su-30 MKI

[sayareakd]

A second production facility was offered by Russia 2 -3 years ago why we did not take this offer has always puzzled me??

What makes you think we have not taken that offer ??? some remote part of India we have kept surprise for chines and Pak.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

What makes you think we have not taken that offer ??? some remote part of India we have kept surprise for chines and Pak.

I will would be very happy if this is true even if it remains unconfirmed.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I am pretty sure the Sukhoi numbers are different from what the government is reporting.

 

[Galaxy]

I failed to understand many decision taken by MoD. (Air-force)

1> We have opted for 3 Bn+ deal for 51 Mirage upgradation which will take 10 years. Even after that, Life will increase 15 years max.

Why not we bought 40-50 Gripen in 3 years ?? Or even 25-30 Rafale in 3 years direct for Europe ??

2> MKI production rate is 16 per year. Recently HAL chief said we can produce even 30 per year provided that GoI give big order with certainty. What more big order they need ?? We could even use same facility for FGFA, MMRCA, TEJAS, AMCA, Heli.

3> We are buying almost all type of Heli except home made LCA/Dhruv. If we have technology as DRDO/HAL claims why not increase the production by more such facility ?? Even in worst case, They will manufacture Dhruv, LCA, Rudra, Obser. heli. which they have order till 2020.

4> We are waiting for MMRCA deal, 2nd squadron by 2017. France already said "They can provide 10 jets every year", Why not BUY 60 direct from them by 2017 and rest 66 by HAL ?? If we can't learn from 66, how we will learn more in 108 ?? In that way, We will get what we want.

5> Tejas - They say everything is on planned and few test, acquisition left. Then why not Buy GE Engine, Missiles, do test and induct in 2015 MK2 and then by producing 30 each year we can have 150 by 2020, then we can export also and make some money.

I don't know their thinking, planning and state of mind.

 

[Galaxy]

What makes you think we have not taken that offer ??? some remote part of India we have kept surprise for chines and Pak.

I wish if this is true.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I failed to understand many decision taken by MoD. (Air-force)

1> We have opted for 3 Bn+ deal for 51 Mirage upgradation which will take 10 years. Even after that, Life will increase 15 years max.

Why not we bought 40-50 Gripen in 3 years ?? Or even 25-30 Rafale in 3 years direct for Europe ??

2> MKI production rate is 16 per year. Recently HAL chief said we can produce even 30 per year provided that GoI give big order with certainty. What more big order they need ?? We could even same use facility for FGFA, MMRCA, TEJAS, AMCA, Heli.

3> We are buying almost all type of Heli except home made LCA/Dhruv. If we have technology as DRDO/HAL claims why not increase the production by more such facility ?? Even in worst case, They will manufacture Dhruv, LCA, Rudra, Obser. heli. which they have order till 2020.

4> We are waiting for MMRCA deal, 2nd squadron by 2017. France already said "They can provide 10 jets every year", Why not BUY 60 direct from them by 2017 and rest 66 by HAL ?? If we can't learn from 66, how we will learn more in 108 ?? In that way, We will get what we want.

5> Tejas - They say everything is on planned and few test, acquisition left. Then why not Buy GE Engine, Missiles, do test and induct in 2015 MK2 and then by producing 30 each year we can have 150 by 2020, then we can export also and make some money.

I don't know their thinking, planning and state of mind.

In 5 years think about how many different planes our pilots will have to train on??
LCA
MRCA
SU-30 MKI 5TH GEN UPGRADE
MIRAGE UPGRADE
PAKFA

 

[Galaxy]

In 5 years think about how many different planes our pilots will have to train on??
LCA
MRCA
SU-30 MKI 5TH GEN UPGRADE
MIRAGE UPGRADE
PAKFA

If we would have increased the production rate for MKI/LCA, opted Rafale/typhoon direct from them instead of MIRAGE 2k upgradation.

Then,

MMRCA
TEJAS
PAK FA
MKI

By 2020, 350 MKI + 150 Tejas + 126 MMRCA + 48 PAK-FA. - 700+ quality fighter jets (40 squadron) to face 2 front war. In that 9 year, we can develop Tejas MK3 (may be AMCA)

Strong defence + min. platform + self-dependency and secure future.

 

[p2prada]

I thought private companies foreign and domestic were lining up to buy shares in HAL IPO. What happened there?

That's just 10% and there will be no change in management. They are raising funds, that's all. You are talking about at least above 49% buy out. No company in India will do it.

BTW, HAL initially started as a private company in 1945, it was bought by the govt.

 

[p2prada]

MAKS 2011: New 'Super' Version of Sukhoi Su-30MK Announced | Aviation International News

To date, 170 Irkut-built Su-30MK series aircraft are in service with the Indian, Algerian and Malaysian air forces out of "over 300" ordered. Irkut continues to supply assembly kits to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited of India, which is gradually mastering Su-30MKI license production.

HAL recently announced first of the MKIs produced from raw materials. All subsequent batches will be made in India, no kits imported.

 

[Patriot]

PM visit: India to buy 42 'upgraded' Sukhois

New Delhi After negotiating for more than a year, India has firmed up an order with Russia for the purchase of 42 upgraded Sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft to strengthen its aging fleet. An agreement confirming this purchase will be signed during Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to Russia starting Thursday.

While the Cabinet Committee on Security had taken a decision on buying 42 additional Sukhoi MKIs last year, negotiations have taken longer because India was also keen to include some of the features found in fifth generation fighter aircraft. Finally, the Russian side agreed to upgrade the SU-30 MKIs to its latest version known as 'Super Sukhoi' with additional characteristics.

The new version is expected to include a new cockpit, an upgraded radar and certain stealth features to avoid radar detection. Significantly, the upgraded Sukhoi-30 MKIs will be able to carry a heavier weapons load, especially the airborne version of the Brahmos cruise missile. India is also looking to upgrade most of its SU-30 MKIs in the long run.

While Russia may have lost out in the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft deal because of not being able to offer certain additional features, officials said, Moscow has assured New Delhi that it will roll out its best in upgraded SU-30 MKIs.

"The defence cooperation is robust and excellent. Our two countries have developed maturity that individual deals will not affect the ties," said Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai while responding to a question on whether the MMRCA rejection will impact defence ties.

The deal, estimated at over Rs 20,000 crore, will be operational in three years with the first delivery expected in 2014 and the last by 2018. Once the 42 aircraft are inducted, the total strength of SU-30 MKI fleet will go up to 272. It may be noted that by 2017, India plans to phase out 120 MiG 21s and with the MMRCA still not a done deal, the SU-30 MKI fleet will be the mainstay.

Meanwhile, India and Russia have still not finalised the agreement for two more reactors at Koodankulam. Though indications are that the deal will not be signed during the PM's visit, Mathai said that a call is yet to taken on the subject.

 

[Galaxy]

Old news. It was finalised a year back and most likely the agreement would be signed in forthcoming MMS visit to Moscow.

 

[nrj]

x-posting .........................

PM to raise Su-30 MKI engine failure with Russia
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is expected to red-flag serviceability, product support and pending upgrade of India's frontline Su-30 MKI multi-role fighter with President Dmitry Medvedev at the annual summit meeting on Friday in Russia.

Top government sources said that Air Headquarters has urgently requested the Prime Minister to raise the issue of engine serviceability with his Russian counterpart after few incidents of engine failures have occurred in the long range twin-engine fighter. The Su-30 MKI is powered AL-31 FP engine, whose variant also powers the Chinese Su-30 MKK fighter.

While the Indian Air Force is tight-lipped about the issue and would like to play it down, the top brass has conveyed to government that "shaft bearing failures" have occurred in some engines. "In peacetime, the fighter can land on the other engine but this can be a life and death situation in adverse conditions, said a senior official.
Sources said that IAF had conveyed to the Russian manufacturer of Su-30 MKI that it needed to make design changes to prevent any future engine failures. However, the manufacturer raised objections to the lubricants used by the IAF in the Su-30 MKI engine. But after it was proved that the engine was still failing despite the use of oil recommended by the manufacturer, the IAF decide to escalate the matter to the government level. Since it was inducted in 1997, Su-30 MKI has performed well with IAF despite three crashes, none of which have been attributed to engine failures.

The other issue of concern is the pending upgrade for Su-30MKI fighters, which have now been in IAF service for over eight years. While the Air Headquarters wants the manufacturer to upgrade avionics and weapon platforms, the matter is stuck not on technical but on the commercial aspects as the original manufacturer is bargaining hard for better price.


PM to�raise Su-30 MKI engine failure with Russia - Hindustan Times

 

[hit&run]

^^This is a serious shyt by part of all involved with SU-MKI 30. What the hell is happening?

 

[p2prada]

Shows why two engines are still required for reliability.

 

[hit&run]

Shows why two engines are still required for reliability.

They are not operating two different class engines on one plane. The problem with engines means the jet is vulnerable to crash if one can malfunction so can other too. Since the problem is escalated to govt. level it means the problem is quite worrisome and Sukhoi inc. is not helping.
............................................................
What PM will say to his counterpart BTW ? Replace engines ? Why we should go for more Sukhoi if engines are not flawless?
few question to ponder.

 

[nrj]

UAC board is dominated by sukhoi chaps, me thinks.

Anyways issue raised to PM level is embarrasing for sukhoi unless we've forgot to put such clause in agreement.

IAF will not accept old design & sukhoi's refusal to amend changes will only create more noise.

So far no flaw from HAL end, good to know.

--

Engine problem is not technical constraint but commercial dispute under which IAF is demanding design change on future units afaik.

 

[hit&run]

UAC board is dominated by sukhoi chaps, me thinks.

Anyways issue raised to PM level is embarrasing for sukhoi unless we've forgot to put such clause in agreement.

IAF will not accept old design & sukhoi's refusal to amend changes will only create more noise.

So far no flaw from HAL end, good to know.

--

Engine problem is not technical constraint but commercial dispute under which IAF is demanding design change on future units afaik.

nrj

Do you/anyone know how many Russia made engines we have.

The article you posted is clearly stating that the issue is technical and has a thread of previous troubleshooting.

Thanks

 

[sathya]

India, Russia sign deal for another 42 Sukhoi combat planes


MOSCOW: India Friday signed a fresh agreement with Russia for the licensed production of 42 Sukhoi fighters for which the Russians will provide technical and equipment support.

The new deal comes a week after an Indian Air Force (IAF) Sukhoi Su-30MKI crashed near Pune in Maharashtra following which the entire fleet of 120 planes in six squadrons has been grounded while the case of the accident is investigated.

The deal was among five pacts signed after delegation-level talks between visiting Indian Minister Manmohan Singh and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev.

The agreement was signed by Indian Defence Secretary Shashikant Sharma, who is part of the prime minister's delegation, and Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation Director M.A. Dmitriev here in the presence of Manmohan Singh and Medvedev.

India had in the mid-1990s signed an agreement with Russia for buying 50 twin-seater Sukhois off-the-shelf that were delivered beginning 1997.

In 2000, the two sides had signed another deal for licensed production of 140 Su-30MKIs by defence public sector undertaking Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). In 2007, a protocol was envisaged for manufacture of a further 40 Sukhois.

"The present protocol envisaged manufacture of an additional 42 aircraft by HAL, taking the total Sukhois for the IAF to 272 planes," Sharma told.

 

[sathya]

how much of super sukhoi tech will India get ? 30% reinvestment ?

adding strength after strength...su 30mki getting more fearsome..

India is best marketing agent of sukhoi for Russia..

sukhoi will get more deals after this..

 

[p2prada]

They are not operating two different class engines on one plane. The problem with engines means the jet is vulnerable to crash if one can malfunction so can other too. Since the problem is escalated to govt. level it means the problem is quite worrisome and Sukhoi inc. is not helping.
............................................................
What PM will say to his counterpart BTW ? Replace engines ? Why we should go for more Sukhoi if engines are not flawless?
few question to ponder.

It's been over 10 years and we haven't had any crashes due to engine problems. Two engines increase reliability.

This is inconsequential just like the Catherine failures on T-90s. The media has the chance to bloat it and further discredit the Russians.

However the problem needs to be fixed.