Su-30 MKI

[LETHALFORCE]

F-18 SH is a class plane and the weapon it offers has no match to any other AC in the whole MMRCA. Provided TOT is not a problem for the congress and obviously it shouldn't come with any strings attached...

When was the last time you heard USA doing a TOT on anything associated with their aircrafts??(you can include NATO allies)

 

[LETHALFORCE]

since we are comparing SU-30 mKI to it's western counterparts which 4th generation plane have a missile comparable to KH-31?

 

[Kinshuk]

Ok boys, this is not the MRCA thread. All this has been discussed there.

Thread starter asked if SU 30 MKI is a potent aircraft , why shouldn't we produce them in large no instead of having MMRCA.. Anyways I think it has already been answered by different members now..

LF,

Yes I agree but even Russia could have done the same provided we never had MKIs, Migs in Indian Air Force, what else they could have offered? Also it is quite evident India is tilting towards USA.

Regards,
KS

 

[Singh]

since we are comparing SU-30 mKI to it's western counterparts which 4th generation plane have a missile comparable to KH-31?

LF saar kabhi toh google kar lia karo..
Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen, F-15, F-16, FA-18, Mirage 2000 etc all can fire Air to Surface Missiles.

 

[bengalraider]

i believe the Flanker platform has only one true western analogue that gentlemen is obviously the "F-15 Eagle". The Typhoon and the rest of the american aircraft & Eurocanards were built to defend European territory from a soviet invasion the eagle was the only pre-stealth aircraft built to take the fight to the enemy, before the advent of the all-mighty raptor(as the Americans claim)the eagle was the only western aircraft with the sheer brute strength to run a deep strike mission in the soviet fatherland. the Mig 29/35 is more of a defender and a better analogue to the Eurocanards and the falcon. as for the SH it's in a league of it's own that lies somewhere in between.

 

[Sabir]

I think IAF also felt Su-30 was not at per with the Western fighters in terms of avionics. So they went for alternatives from Israel, France and that of its own and upgraded them to Su-30 MKI standard. Bengalraider is bang on target-only F-15 E have similar role to Su-30 MKI.

About LCA, consider it as our effort to catch up with the Westerns in manufacturing fighter planes more than just an interceptor.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

LF saar kabhi toh google kar lia karo..
Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen, F-15, F-16, FA-18, Mirage 2000 etc all can fire Air to Surface Missiles.

singh KH-31 is not just a missile

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?2089-Ks-172RW-l-AWACS-KILLER/page3

Kh-31 was made available, equipped with a hybrid active-passive guidance head for use against nonmaneuvering airborne targets such as AWACS (passive guidance) from far distances. The range of this missile is 200 km. The unofficial designation of this missile is 'mini-Moskit'. The Kh-31A missile has been developed from the technologies of the 1970-80s.

AGM -88 HARM is on f-16's but the range is less than KH-31, and with PAKFA another new generation will also be arriving of KH-38

 

[Armand2REP]

Su-30MKI

Pros

high manuverability
high speed
long range
decent payload
powerful radar

Cons

Large RCS
Easily detectable/jammed radar
obsolete PGM inventory
high maintenance cost
low sortie generation
obsolete datalinks
Dated IRST

 

[StealthSniper]

Su-30MKI is on-par or better than (Overall):

1. F-16
2. F-18
3. F-15
4. Rafale
5. Gripen

Su-30MKI might have a problem with:

1. Eurofighter
2. F-22
3. F-15 (newer model)
4. F-35


At the end of the day, the plane and the pilot will win the fight. It doesn't matter how good the plane is, if the pilot is not as capable as the plane is, you won't win. So I think the Su-30MKI is a great plane, and with our very skilled pilots, it's a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Armand2REP]

This is probably the best source for Western fighters vs MKI.

 

[SATISH]

Uhhh!!!! Armand Su 30 MKI dosent use Tumansky engines....nor does MiG 21 use Israeli radars.

 

[Rage]

Uhhh!!!! Armand Su 30 MKI dosent use Tumansky engines....nor does MiG 21 use Israeli radars.

Yeh, that was a gaffe that got exposed by members of the BR soon after the vid came out: Saturn AL-31F for the Su-30MKIs and the Kopyo radar for the Mig-21 Bisons. Looks like the good ol' Colonel was confuuuused.

The USAF has apparently distanced itself from Col. Terrence Fornof's comments, Asserting the man never was part of the exercise and only played a "supporting role".

Also the six Su-30MKI's that participated in Ex.Red Flag were forbidden [by the Indian Air Force] to use their N011M Bars radars, perhaps explaining the high 'friendly-kill' ratios.

 

[Agantrope]

Su-30MKI is on-par or better than (Overall):

1. F-16
2. F-18
3. F-15
4. Rafale
5. Gripen

Su-30MKI might have a problem with:

1. Eurofighter
2. F-22
3. F-15 (newer model)
4. F-35


At the end of the day, the plane and the pilot will win the fight. It doesn't matter how good the plane is, if the pilot is not as capable as the plane is, you won't win. So I think the Su-30MKI is a great plane, and with our very skilled pilots, it's a force to be reckoned with.

@SS

Again it is about the usage. MKI is with the air force for just 10 odd years. When it goes on Dog_fight with the F-16 of PAF who knows F-16 might emerge as the winner because PAF operates F-16 for nearly 3 decades.
I can quote an example of how russian used their so called inferior tanks in the Georgian war.
----------------------

When comparing the Su-30MKI only opponent i can think is the Strike Eagle (Su-27s vs F-15 Eagles) as BR mentioned. Since all the twin engined fighter cant be compared together. For MKI/Su-30 i can think only of the F-15s/SE.
-------------

@Armand
I dont think Su-30 MKI has a large RCS, might be on par with other 4th gen fighter say f-15, F-18. It might its heat signature from its engine. They are being fixed with the newer ones.
Also please take a note whether it is Su-30 MKI or MKK. Since the MKI uses the advanced Avioic suite from the West (French and the Israel). So it will be far better in those aspects

 

[StealthSniper]

I expected the Americans to try to sniff the signals for our N011M radar and not the French. Oh well, if we get the Rafale or F-18/ F-16 we will be able to get all the radar parameters and technical data we need out of the aircraft anyway.

 

[StealthSniper]

@SS

Again it is about the usage. MKI is with the air force for just 10 odd years. When it goes on Dog_fight with the F-16 of PAF who knows F-16 might emerge as the winner because PAF operates F-16 for nearly 3 decades.
I can quote an example of how russian used their so called inferior tanks in the Georgian war.

True the PAF might have had the F-16 longer, but this doesn't mean that automatically the Pakistani pilots are better. For example, India is constantly training with foreign partners (Red flag, Cope India etc) and the Indian pilots log many hours every year to improve their skills and tactics for the time of war. Yes I agree that their are new pilots flying the Su-30 MKI and they haven't been flying it for long but the exercises that India paticipates in are top notch and are designed to improve the skills the pilots already have. India is introducing new trainers, new simulators, and are doing everything to simulate actual combat and I just don't see how Pakistan can keep up with the hours that the Indian pilots fly and also the huge training and exercises that India is participating in.

When comparing the Su-30MKI only opponent i can think is the Strike Eagle (Su-27s vs F-15 Eagles) as BR mentioned. Since all the twin engined fighter cant be compared together. For MKI/Su-30 i can think only of the F-15s/SE.

On paper the Su-30MKI is a superb aircraft but in reality it hasn't been in a dogfight situation yet with an adversary aircraft. So yes I think the Su-30 can beat a lot of the 4.5 generation planes out their, but in the end the winner of the dogfight is the plane that uses the equipment, experience, and training to the best of his/her ability. I will say though, that India does have very well trained pilots, and the exercises we have done with other countries have proved this.

 

[pankaj nema]

More Important thing is the threat scenario, which Su 30 MkI will face ,which is Chinese and Pakistanis
planes. such as F 16 Block 52 , Su 30 MKK , Su 27, J 11.etc

Now as long as these above mentioned planes can be taken care of then, there is no worry.

Euro fighter ,if we can afford it , will be wonderful . Rafale is a rip off .It is like a GOLDEN knife for cutting vegetables.

Su 30 MKI is also due for mid life upgrades. The latest contracted batch ie announced recently must be the
upgraded version .

 

[Rahul Singh]

One thing that i picked out from USAF guy statement is that a small agile fighter with good radar + BVRAAM + jamming pod makes a beast to reckon with. I think LCA is best placed in IAF replacing Mig-21s.

As far as MKI is concerned then yes it has got large RCS but it has also got very high volume of fuel which makes MKI or SU-30 family first and only intercontinental air dominance fighter.

 

[JAISWAL]

hello
sir, in my view mki with its mlu is more than capable of facing mmrca contenders what u say

 

[sunnyv]

hello
sir, in my view mki with its mlu is more than capable of facing mmrca contenders what u say

Improved , but how will it fare against Eurobird,Gripen,Rafale has to be seen.
Plz do remember - The top notch Avionics and EW equipment on western birds give them an overwhelming situational awareness- I doubt russia can match them , till Pakfa comes out and we can see that & analyse
Just by looking at air intakes of mki and rafale you will be able to tell the stealth/Lo factor envolved in designing rafale( even if only minute).

Support that western jets get from ground based assets+AWACS in comparison to what we have is many folds ahead, so no doubt they will have first BVR shot
If MKI survives then MKI will be able to fire back (also depends on missile used - I can bet any given day a pilot would love to go with METEOR/AMRAAM/AIM120 AE than R77ae)
and finally in WVR - A pilot with better skills in ACM(dogfighting)+ Jet with better Maneuverability + More powerful and advanced engines ( Supercruise is one , TVC is another) + better weapons like ASRAAM/PYTHON5 will come out winner

According to my knowledge IAF is desperately trying to get Newer missiles devloped for its russian fighter

 

[p2prada]

Su-30MKI

Pros

high manuverability
high speed
long range
decent payload
powerful radar

Cons

Large RCS
Easily detectable/jammed radar
obsolete PGM inventory
high maintenance cost
low sortie generation
obsolete datalinks
Dated IRST

That's wrong info. The Bars delivers way too much power for airborne radars to jam the radar. I guess the only fighter capable of jamming the bars completely is the Growler and only if it is modified to concentrate only on the Bars.

Bars with 10KW and the Irbis with 20KW are pretty much unjammable by other air assets. Bars has the latest software codes and has a pretty high degree of LPI too.