Su-30 MKI

[bhramos]

India set to discuss overhaul of Su-30 fighter jets with Russia

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20091010/156415109.html

India set to discuss overhaul of Su-30 fighter jets with Russia


NEW DELHI, October 9 (RIA Novosti) - India will discuss the modernization of the Russian-made Su-30MKI aircraft in service with its air force during an upcoming military-technical cooperation meeting in Moscow, the country's Defense Ministry said on Friday.

The Indian Air Force currently has 105 Su-30MKIs mainly deployed at airbases close to the Chinese border.

"The aircraft, contracted in 1996, are due for overhaul shortly and Russia has offered an upgrade of the aircraft with incorporation of the latest technologies during the major overhaul," the ministry said in a statement.

The IAF originally ordered 50 Su-30MKI aircraft from Russia in 1996 and an additional 40 planes in 2007. India's Hindustani Aeronautics (HAL) was also contracted to build 140 aircraft in India between 2003 and 2017 under a licensed production agreement.

India previously said it was satisfied with the performance of Russian Su-30MKI fighters and has recently expressed interest in buying another 50 Su-30MKIs.

The 9th meeting of the Russia-India Inter-Governmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation will be held on October 14-15 in Moscow and will be chaired by Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and his Indian counterpart A. K. Antony.

The main focus of discussions during the meeting will be the extension of the existing bilateral agreement on military-technical cooperation for another 10 years, from 2011 to 2020.

Russian-Indian intergovernmental commission sessions are held annually and alternate between New Delhi and Moscow.

The current cooperation program until 2010 comprises about 200 joint projects, including the modernization of the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier (formerly the Admiral Gorshkov) for the Indian navy, the transfer of technology for the licensed assembly of T-90 tanks in India, the production of BrahMos missiles and the purchase of Smerch MLRS by India.

 

[Rage]

The upgrades have been in the pipeline for about 6 months.

A new PESA radar- likely the IRBIS-E, replacing the N011M Bars, although I'm disappointed the upgrade doesn't involve an AESA.

Any word on whether the S-117/117С will replace the AL-31FP? Googled for another source, but could find nothin'.

Tony, the last time around, was interested in 'newer radars, weapons systems and avionics'. New avionics implies possibly an OLS-30 replacement, likely with the new leuco-sapphire OLS-35, as this seems to indicate. Also possibly L-Band arrays for high power active jamming on the wings, better power aperture performance, passive angle tracking and geolocation in the 1.0 GHz - 2.0 GHz frequencies, as HAL seemed to have intimated in this, along with a a combined radar/laser warning system and a missile approach warning system.

RAM coatings too may be on the cards as the Wiki seems to indicate. And possibly an aerodynamic covering for some devices as in this image:

Interestingly, I also found this on the internet:

Developing the ‘Smart Skin’ concept for Su-30MKI

The pre-planned product improvement roadmap for the Su-30MKI continues to make steady progress, with two Indian Air Force (IAF) Su-30MKIs, delivered in mid-2002, being dispatched to United Aircraft Corp (UAC) of Russia’s Irkutsk-based facility (IRKUT Corp) where both airframes will be strengthened and refurbished, and their navigation-and-attack system will be upgraded in order to arm the aircraft with the BrahMos supersonic air-launched cruise missile for both maritime strike and ground attack. Thus, while all structural and electrical work will be undertaken at Irkutsk, the Tikhomirov-NIIP will upgrade the Su-30MKI’s existing NO-11M ‘Bars’ passive phased-array radar’s performance and operating modes by incorporating a radar target extraction LRU. Once all this has been done, the two upgraded Su-30MKIs will be flown back to India to begin the weapons qualification test-firings, which will be jointly conducted by BrahMos Aerospace and the IAF.

And come 2014, UAC, together with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) will begin upgrading the first 100 IAF Su-30MKIs by modifying their airframes to make them stealthy, converting the existing ‘Bars’ into an active phased-array radar, enhancing the situational awareness by incorporating active electronically scanned transmit/receive arrays on the aircraft’s wings, and beefing up the defensive-aids suite by installing a combined radar/laser warning system and a missile approach warning system. Tikhomirov-NIIP had by last November begun laboratory-level tests of a ‘Bars’, which was fitted with an AESA array made up of X-band transmit/receive modules built by Istok JSC. Since then, another two ‘Bars’ radars have been modified as part of the R&D phase, which will last until 2012, and will be followed by flight qualification a year later. Incidentally, Tikhomirov-NIIP has also developed the Irbis-E passive phased-array radar for the Su-35BM and will soon begin work on modifying the Irbis-E into an active phased-array radar, which will go on board the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) that will be co-developed by UAC and HAL. In addition, both UAC and Tikhomirov-NIIP have come together to develop the ‘smart skin’ concept under which an AESA array’s transmit/receive modules can be placed anywhere on board the Su-30MKI to generate the relevant radiation field required for achieving more than 180-degree field-of-view.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forum...eveloping-the-Smart-Skin-concept-for-Su-30MKI

 

[Armand2REP]

Likely upgrades include,

OLS
Irbis-E
Weapons inventory
Damocles targetting pod
Top Sight cueing helmet
Israeli ECM
Maybe RAM coating


The coating hasn't had its full maintenance cycle deterimined yet so we don't know if it would be a worthwhile investment. MKIs weren't desinged with the stealth features that would make it productive and a redesign with new inlets without canards would be difficult. Irbis E may not be AESA, but it is far superior to the current BARS. The LPI of an AESA on the MKI wouldn't be that effective with such a large RCS. Tacticle Missile Corp. has a wide range of new weapons for Su-30 class aircraft and it will be guaranteed the upgrade will make it possible to fire them. Damocles is being license produced by UOMZ to deliever many of these weapons. Thales has already emerged with a Russian Indian partnership for the TopSight cueing system in MiG-29K so will likely be included in MKI upgrade. Sagem INS/GPS navigation system will also be likely. New Israeli ECM systems will also be sought.

I have to throw my hands in the air as far as 117S. It is supposed to be a superior engine with much reduced life cycle costs, but the license production of AL-31F in India is a recent development that doesn't make much financial sense to go for another engine when you have this in production domestically.

 

[gogbot]

Why no AESA or in built IRST .

If AESA comes as standard on the MMRCA plane due for induction in 2013
as well as the Tejas in 2015

Why not for MKI.

I mean the SU-35 has both those features.

If it is not possible to upgrade the MKI to match the Su-35.
I would rather we get the Su-35 instead of upgrades.

 

[Armand2REP]

The Su-35BM is not being configured for an AESA array. Much development and production cost has been spent on Irbis to be the next generation Flanker radar. The goal was to make a radar that was powerful enough to detect LO aircraft at great range. Russian technology in AESA has not reached the level of cooling systems to put that much power as to be as effective as Irbis without it burning up. Talk has been made of installing the AESA of PAK FA, but the nose configuration makes that impossible. Irbis is the only Russian option available.

IRST will be included in the new OLS.

 

[gogbot]

The Su-35BM is not being configured for an AESA array. Much development and production cost has been spent on Irbis to be the next generation Flanker radar. The goal was to make a radar that was powerful enough to detect LO aircraft at great range. Russian technology in AESA has not reached the level of cooling systems to put that much power as to be as effective as Irbis without it burning up. Talk has been made of installing the AESA of PAK FA, but the nose configuration makes that impossible. Irbis is the only Russian option available.

IRST will be included in the new OLS.

Then why does the mig-35 have AESA radar.

Also Cant India get an AESA from Israeli.

I dont know much about the advantages of AESA over PESA.
Except That AESA is regarded superior.

What are the dis advantages of using PESA on the MKI ?
as opposed to AESA

 

[Armand2REP]

Then why does the mig-35 have AESA radar.

Because it is supposed to exceed earlier Zhuk performance. It is currently beyond the capability for Russia to produce a radar that exceed that of the Irbis.

Also Cant India get an AESA from Israeli.

I dont know much about the advantages of AESA over PESA.
Except That AESA is regarded superior.

What are the dis advantages of using PESA on the MKI ?
as opposed to AESA

The biggest advantage of AESA is Low Probability of Intercept. Su-30MKI doesn't really need to worry about this since it has a huge RCS. No radar is going to hide it. MKI is like a mini-AWACs lighting up the sky, Irbis will only increase this role. This philisophy was started in the USSR with the introduction of the first PESA on MiG-31. That is to detect and engage targets at long range before they can fire on you.

Israel does not have an AESA to fit Flankers. The one they work on is for light fighters.

 

[notinlove]

I agree IRBIS will be more than fine.with a peak power of 20 K watts it outperforms everything.........detection range 350-400 km for a 3 m^2 RCS target ... no LPI though but thats ok ..as Armand explained , rather useless for a fighter with such RCS

 

[sunnyv]

All are mere speculation, nothing is confirmed
Looking at Our history- We wont go for upgrade till 2018-2020
Look at mig29 took 5 years to materialize,Mirage is still in hang for 3 years, so is Jaguar,harrier took 3 years, MIg21 and 27 took 8 years.
This year's budget says it all. If we are buying MRCA + New HELICOPTORS + Pending updates + home made LCA & Akash. I am sure we cant fit upgrade of su30 in this year's budget its mere 32 billion in total.
Su30 upgrade alone will cost in excess of 5 billion

And regarding AESA, russia has built NIIP- Version based on IRBIS for PAK-FA , its undergoing test on su35bm platform
Whether it will be offered for retrofit on su30 - its a big question, even bigger is whether IAF would go for it,similar is case with OLS, i doubt new engines also(not required since current engines are good enough, what fuel efficiency new engines will bring in i doubt that can justify their price- Guys plz remember we are not as rich as US).

We have to have savings to buy more FGFA which will cost 80-100million, development cost apart.

Only concrete upgrade which appears is new PYLON for BRAHMOS that will be fittted on su30(only some i guess and software upgrade to fire control radar process to be able to launch this brahmos missile with fire and forget ability) that also in 2012-14 period when missile if devloped to fit.

 

[Armand2REP]

And regarding AESA, russia has built NIIP- Version based on IRBIS for PAK-FA , its undergoing test on su35bm platform

The radar is still in bench tests. It won't be placed on the Su-35 for tests but the T-50.

 

[sunnyv]

The radar is still in bench tests. It won't be placed on the Su-35 for tests but the T-50.

I read that all systems will be tested on su35- it will act as a test bed.
let me get link for you

 

[venkat]

Looting in the name of overhaul!!!!!cant say anything more than this!~!!!

 

[ahmedsid]

Looting in the name of overhaul!!!!!cant say anything more than this!~!!!

Could you please elaborate as what is being looted? Did you mean to say the Upgrades are worthless and not needed?

 

[Armand2REP]

Looting in the name of overhaul!!!!!cant say anything more than this!~!!!

I think it a little premature to call it looting when we don't know what is included.

 

[notinlove]

Would the russians hurry up... i wanna see that R-77 M ............ I reckon Irbis combined with a ramjet powered missile could be a very deadly concoction

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Looting in the name of overhaul!!!!!cant say anything more than this!~!!!

There are better examples of looting one is the T-90 orders this is a peanut compared to the comissions that will be generated from other 10 and 11 digit deals, the new skin developed with AESA capability is definetly worth the price.

 

[venkat]

Ahmedji!!! i am not saying the upgrades are worthless!!! i am talking about "overhaulin" only!!!! I understand full TOT is not being shared in vital and crucial areas, so we are in a way forced to send them to the (original) originator for MRO!!!! If we are not sending them there ,we may have to invite them here!!!

 

[Sridhar]

AS reported earlier it is back to 50 more sukhois

India, Russia to ink $4 bn defence deals

BY: DECCAN HERALD
In what may reaffirm Russia’s position as India’s most trusted and largest military supplier, New Delhi is expected to ink defence deals worth $ 4 billion during Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin’s working visit beginning on Friday.The two almost sure-fire deals are for procuring an additional 29 MiG-29K fighters for the Indian Navy at an estimated cost of $1.2 billion. India is also expected to place orders for 50 more Sukhoi Su-30MKI multi-role fighters for the Indian Air Force. The Air Force has 120 Sukhoi fighters and it is proposed to increase the strength to 280 by 2015 to make it the mainstay of the force.
Even though there was no confirmation from the defence ministry, the Cabinet Committee on Security, which met here during the day, is believed to have approved a new offer price of $2.34 billion for the procurement of the refitted Russian aircraft carrier “Admiral Gorshkov”, as against the original contract amount of $974 million.
Rechristened “INS Vikramaditya”, the carrier is undergoing repairs and refit at the Sevmash shipyard in Russia.
As per the original contract, Russia should have handed over the carrier by 2009-end. But it is now proposed to be delivered to the Indian Navy in 2013-14, provided the revised deal is sealed during Putin’s visit.
The maritime fighters will strengthen India’s brand new MiG-29K fleet, which was purchased at $1.5 billion as a part of the Gorshkov deal, under which 16 maritime fighters were procured. Four have arrived at their home base in Goa and two are expected soon.
Originally, the 29 MiG-29K fighters were to be deployed onboard the “Gorshkov”. But the delay in the delivery of the aircraft carrier prompted the Navy to look at another option.
Since there is also an inordinate delay in the development of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which was to have been deployed onboard the indigenously developed aircraft carrier (IAC), the Navy now proposes to fly the Russian fighter aircraft from the IAC decks.
Defence Minister A K Antony stated in Parliament on Wednesday that the LCA Navy programme was lagging behind the schedule as deficiencies had been detected in the airframe and other associated equipment of the aircraft.
Coming three months after Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s Russia visit last December, Putin’s trip has a wider agenda which includes bilateral technological and energy cooperation.


http://idrw.org/?p=820#more-820

 

[RPK]

Check out the flag on the tailfin in that pic.

IT is Indian air force Fin flash

 

[p2prada]

Check out the flag on the tailfin in that pic.

And what's wrong with it?