Stumpp Schuele & Somappa Defence LTD

Lonewarrior

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I understand your frustration that SSS defence seem to be just assembling imported parts.
But could it be that they have like the chinks (gasp !) simply perfectly copied the design of popular foreign
rifle parts and now have the manufacturing method in house ? If so, I would support SSS, because what we need is in house manufacturing of a good design (by beg borrow or steal method !).
However if they are simply importing and assembling, then SSS is just a screw driver tech firm and is of no use to develop our MIC.
Naah, you are far far away from understanding my frustration.
And forcing my perception on yours is not something I'm a big fan of doing. What you think is totally up to you.

I will just keep presenting facts.
 

ezsasa

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Naah, you are far far away from understanding my frustration.
And forcing my perception on yours is not something I'm a big fan of doing. What you think is totally up to you.

I will just keep presenting facts.
Trying to understand your definition of screwdriver giri.

This video from Peshawar shows key parts can be manufactured using CNC machines locally.

What exactly do you think SSS is not manufacturing in India?
 

Lonewarrior

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Trying to understand your definition of screwdriver giri.
What exactly do you think SSS is not manufacturing in India?
But the question is, will that change anything?
The answer is no.

If you are really interested in a detailed list then I have mentioned that multiple times. And as a matter of fact, you have already seen them.
 

ezsasa

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But the question is, will that change anything?
The answer is no.

If you are really interested in a detailed list then I have mentioned that multiple times. And as a matter of fact, you have already seen them.
If I recall your issue was with grips & buttstock, is it not?
 

Johny_Baba

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FIRST LOOK: Indian Private Sector Answer To Kalashnikov Rifle Out Soon



An Indian private sector firearms technology firm is all set to unveil and offer for test an assault rifle that it claims is an answer, and improvement, over the legendary Russian Kalashnikov AK-47 and its derivatives. The Indian Army and security forces are currently one of the largest users of Kalashnikov rifles, and the government is all set to activate an Indo-Russian joint venture entity that will build over 600,000 Kalashnikov AK-203 rifles in Amethi in northern India.


Bengaluru-based SSS Defence is currently completing design and development of the 7.62×39 rifle, currently simply designated ‘7.62×39 SSS Defence Weapon’ and will unveil a specimen shortly. The weapon is a modification of the company’s existing P-72 Rapid Engagement Combat Rifle (RECR), replacing, among other things, the short stroke piston with a long stroke piston.



Speaking for the first time on the new AK-type weapon, SSS Defence CEO Vivek Krishnan tells Livefist, “There is a view that many people hold that the AK-203 is probably not the best weapon for a modern military force. It’s fine for general infantry. I doubt the Special Forces would want the AK-203 in as many numbers. At the back end, we’ve been working to create an AK variant. My team likes to call it the 7.62×39 SSS Defence Weapon.”


While the AK-203 is all set to be the Indian Army’s standard issue assault rifles for its regular infantry units in the years ahead, SSS Defence believes India’s recently imposed import ban, which includes 7.62×39 assault rifles, offers an opportunity for the company’s upcoming weapon product.


“The embargo on 7.62×39 rifles allows me to present my weapon as an alternative. Ours may not be manufactured in the same quantities as the AK-203, but for sure I can put it out as a very high quality alternative at a very affordable price,” says Krishnan. “What the AK-203 does not have, we have, including a full length rail. Our technical team doesn’t really think highly of the AK-203’s riveted rail. We’ve used the best materials. Ours has a milled receiver rather than the AK-203’s stamped receiver. Things have changed, and we shouldn’t be going back to Cold War Russian technology. Our weapon will have the ability to accomodate every type of optic, day or night, any type of sight. The butt stock is both telescopic as well as can be folded. What the AK-203 offers is that it a reliable weapon. As long as you have a long-stroke piston working in there, it’s reliable.”

SSS Defence also has a retrofit upgrade for the Indian Army’s existing legacy AK-47s that has been under test and is pending a decision. The upgrade involves the integration of a rugged dust cover that fits without any external locking mechanism, a new tactical buttstock, a new gas tube, quad rail fore-end and a flash suppressor. This allows an optic to be mounted along the full length rail along with an under-barrel grenade launcher (UBGL) on the bottom rail. According to SSS Defence, the package lowers recoil significantly and reduces the classic ‘pull up to the right’ traditional to the AK system.


On the AK-47 retrofit package, in a series of tweets in June, SSS Defence said, “No SF operator should have to go into battle with anything less than the SSS Def SOPMOD for AK. Existing upgrades, all of them imported, cost as much as a new weapon for delivering far less. We languish for being an India made system. Where is the soul in Atmanirbhar bharat? We do like the FN Scar but it’s time to reflect on what is optimal for India. 3x the cost for a new system, training afresh & building new tactics don’t come easy. Not to forget, we’ll be importing all the 7.62×51 ammo on this package for a long time to come.”



Apart from the AK-203 local build program, the Indian Army is in the process of inducting over 140,000 SIG 716 battle rifles from the United States, and on the verge of ordering nearly 100,000 CAR 816 carbines from the UAE. SSS Defence sees opportunities going forward in the sniper rifle, carbine and assault rifle space.


You can catch videos of the upgraded AK-47 in action and a whole lot more on the company’s other firearms programs in Livefist’s full interview with SSS Defence CEO Vivek Krishnan on our YouTube channel, and linked below. Please do subscribe and share if you like our video content!
Hhmm this is the same Kalashnikov type rifle they shown previously during Defense Expo 2020

even pics were posted here or on thread of DefExpo2020

I shall give my observation on the weapon here via pics

1.jpg
2.jpg


So,

->My observation is they seem to have designed this weird looking receiver here ( or maybe another ;cheeto; ? import-screwdriver-resell ),to me am not sure whether it's stamped steel receiver design or milled receiver as it happen to have a machined block for mounting AR-15 style buttstock and pistol grip but also have got some form of trunnion block to mount barrel (and probably handguards,too ?)
->Seems they took some cue points from Galil ACE and put this (probably stamped ?) magazine well section below the receiver,though i don't get the purpose of it for an AK style "rock-lock" type of magazine,and at the end there is ambidextrous dual paddle magazine release,of course modified AK type.
->As said before,Texas Weapons Systems "Dog Tag" railed hinged top cover + handguards combo = cheeto

BUT they seem to ahve modified it by maybe fixing a small metal block inside it to make it work with takedown pin type of receiver (though imagine a hinged dust cover as "upper" section of a receiver huh ?) and maybe recoil spring too is mounted on same pinned block thing inside receiver ? my speculations
->Keyhole for AK style fire selector on receiver,
Ok my gripe is they did so "mehnat" in making this custom receiver of AK (or in importing it) but they couldn't provide a thumb operated fire selector ? Even current gen Arsenal AKs we import from Bulgaria happen to have it on their M1F41 and M5F41 variants,Galil type of course
As they haven't shown any fire selector on it now it's hard to say whether it'll be having Krebs Custom type finger tabs on it for tactical operations etc

@Lonewarrior bhai anything else you'd like to add ?
 

Lonewarrior

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Hhmm this is the same Kalashnikov type rifle they shown previously during Defense Expo 2020

even pics were posted here or on thread of DefExpo2020

I shall give my observation on the weapon here via pics

View attachment 56708View attachment 56709

So,

->My observation is they seem to have designed this weird looking receiver here ( or maybe another ;cheeto; ? import-screwdriver-resell ),to me am not sure whether it's stamped steel receiver design or milled receiver as it happen to have a machined block for mounting AR-15 style buttstock and pistol grip but also have got some form of trunnion block to mount barrel (and probably handguards,too ?)
->Seems they took some cue points from Galil ACE and put this (probably stamped ?) magazine well section below the receiver,though i don't get the purpose of it for an AK style "rock-lock" type of magazine,and at the end there is ambidextrous dual paddle magazine release,of course modified AK type.
->As said before,Texas Weapons Systems "Dog Tag" railed hinged top cover + handguards combo = cheeto

BUT they seem to ahve modified it by maybe fixing a small metal block inside it to make it work with takedown pin type of receiver (though imagine a hinged dust cover as "upper" section of a receiver huh ?) and maybe recoil spring too is mounted on same pinned block thing inside receiver ? my speculations
->Keyhole for AK style fire selector on receiver,
Ok my gripe is they did so "mehnat" in making this custom receiver of AK (or in importing it) but they couldn't provide a thumb operated fire selector ? Even current gen Arsenal AKs we import from Bulgaria happen to have it on their M1F41 and M5F41 variants,Galil type of course
As they haven't shown any fire selector on it now it's hard to say whether it'll be having Krebs Custom type finger tabs on it for tactical operations etc

@Lonewarrior bhai anything else you'd like to add ?
Damn man, that's some serious abstract art.
You left no space for me to doodle.

Anyway, I'll manage with this
6a0426b6-c5d5-4d61-94a2-182574561788.jpg


1. Standard A2 birdcage flash hider.
2. Same 45° gas block, as used on almost all AKs.
3. Most probably a stock barrel from an AK. If you look closely then between the second and third M-Lok slot from the gas block there is the handguard attachment point of an AK.
4. New gas tube. So +1 for innovation there.
5. Dogleg rail and top cover from Texas Weapon Systems.
6. Where the lower and handguard is riveted together one can clearly see the stock AK trunnion.
7. Can't say much about the bolt, but I can bet it's an AK bolt with redesigned charging handle.
6. Regular AK mag, though slightly different mag release. May be they aren't aware that AKs use Nose-in-rock-back magazines, not drop free mags, so there in no use of a mag release that can be activated by trigger finger.
7. This time I'm 100% sure the FCG is straight from an AK.
8. Dust cover retention method is new. It's either a cross pin or something akin to SVD dust cover.
9. Standard AR grip, to be precise MDT pistol grip.
10. Standard AR buffer tube.
11. Can't confirm the exact make, but a typical AR buttstock.

It's funny how at first they were claiming short stroke piston and now they are saying long stroke "to make it as relaible as Kalashnikov".
 
Last edited:

Lonewarrior

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Damn man, that's some serious abstract art.
You left no space for me to doodle.

Anyway, I'll manage with this
View attachment 56715

1. Standard A2 birdcage flash hider.
2. Same 45° gas block, as used on almost all AKs.
3. Most probably a stock barrel from an AK. If you look closely then between the second and third M-Lok slot from the gas block there is the handguard attachment point of an AK.
4. New gas tube. So +1 for innovative there.
5. Dogleg rail and top cover from Texas Weapon Systems.
6. Where the lower and handguard is riveted together one can clearly see the stock AK trunnion.
7. Can't say much about the bolt, but I can bet it's an AK bolt with redesigned charging handle.
6. Regular AK mag, though slightly different mag release. May be they aren't aware that AKs use Nose-in-rock-back magazines, not drop free mags, so there in no use of a mag release that can be activated by trigger finger.
7. This time I'm 100% sure the FCG is straight from an AK.
8. Dust cover retention method is new. It's either a cross pin or something akin to SVD dust cover.
9. Standard AR grip, to be precise MDT pistol grip.
10. Standard AR buffer tube.
11. Can't confirm the exact make, but a typical AR buttstock.

It's funny how at first they were claiming short stroke piston and now they are saying long stroke "to make it as relaible as Kalashnikov".
Straight talk plz..
Is this straight enough sir?
 

Lonewarrior

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You have pointed out a list of items you don't like, if you were the leading the team what would you change?
Btw, I never said I don't like. Don't know how you got to that conclusion.

These are just those parts that they claim to be developed in-house without any JV or ToT.
 

ezsasa

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Btw, I never said I don't like. Don't know how you got to that conclusion.

These are just those parts that they claim to be developed in-house without any JV or ToT.
Ok, i must have missed that info.
Can you post the link of that video or article where they claimed they developed everything in house.

keep in mind i am still trying to understand the criticism against SSS, so that i can check if i have to change any of my existing opinions on SSS. I am taking your help in understanding the issue better, if it's ok with you. if you don't want this discussion to go further, we can drop this convo, no problem.
 

Lonewarrior

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Ok, i must have missed that info.
Can you post the link of that video or article where they claimed they developed everything in house.

keep in mind i am still trying to understand the criticism against SSS, so that i can check if i have to change any of my existing opinions on SSS. I am taking your help in understanding the issue better, if it's ok with you. if you don't want this discussion to go further, we can drop this convo, no problem.
There are many.
But as of now enjoy this.
Screenshot_2020-05-28-06-35-42-07_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.jpg


Claiming indigenization is their USP.
 

Ajax01

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I think its relatively trivial for IA to determine their IDDM claims. Just visit their manufacturing facility coming up near Bangalore and determine just how much manufacturing happens there. People shouldn't be allowed to claim IDDM badge by making a fool out of MoD.
 

Lonewarrior

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can it not be the case that they are still in their product development phase? whatever version we see now may not be their final product offering.
Ya, sure. Why not!

But trust me, even when they will launch their final iteration you will find someone with a funny name like "Lonewarrior" making list of all the parts made by foreign OEMs.
 

Suryavanshi

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can it not be the case that they are still in their product development phase? whatever version we see now may not be their final product offering.
I have already discussed with mods.
We have a DFI Twitter account.
Let's make a Set of questions and request them to answer them and clear all the doubt regarding their claim.

Currently SSS is enjoying the cheers of Fanboys if they are genuine we support them if they talk hababaji we will peg them down.
What say should i create a thread?
 

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