Small arms and Light Weapons

[SGOperative]

While it does not hurt to have a local copy of SCAR-H. But the question is do Astr defence have any manufacturing capabilities at all? How many can they make in a year. Their owner is a young graduate who made the first prototype in OFB Ishapore factory.

At least SSS defence and PLR have some manufacturing capabilities.

Only hope for Astr defence is if they tie up with some Industry major like Kayani, Reliance etc.

Someone said a while back that they dont make the gun, they will give the design to some other manufacturer just like ARDE

 

[Flying Dagger]

Then AR-18's bolt itself was inspired by Johnson's design. But wait, wasn't Johnson's design also inspired from Lewis?
And the gas piston of AR-18. Wasn't it taken from SVT-40!?

I think you are still missing the point here.

"It won't matter if it's a copy" really!?
Didn't it mattered when Haenel copied elements of HK in their gun and they were sued!? Did Germany Army get a new gun!?

Dnt read to much into it.

We can always copy a decent AR based rifle there is nothing unknown about it.

The problem starts with quality standard and efficient production .

That requires well trained employees and huge initial investment without fear of OFB interfering and stopping the sale.

Caracal is a ripe offer for that purpose if you wish to go licensed route.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Something from my side to Astr guys,

say, since you already have Indra rifle design in hand,
maybe try to make MP-7 equivalent from that in 5.56x30mm MINSAS and 5.7x28mm FN ? (probbly also in 9x19mm SMG variant just in case)

i mean, internally MP-7 is very much a reworked G-36 // SCAR-ish PDW thing,
during the prototype stage when it was just named H&K PDW they made this working prototype of test structure, downscaled from existing G-36 design, buttstock mostly sourced from MP-5 i assume,

in later versions they switched from self regulating gas piston system to flat tappet gas piston system without return spring, somewhat similar to what's there on SCAR

and current version of MP-7 bolt carrier is also quite similar to SCAR, just look at pics,

sidenote, i must say H&K guys did really nice job with trigger group of MP-7 i mean they were able to design a mini one and put it in a frame that takes minimal space inside receiver and easy to swap just in case, during disassembly one can pull it out and so,

design is also simple, it consists of just a hammer, it's two springs and buffer, the semi-automatic sear, the automatic sear, their two springs and two retaining pins, that hook-like part connects to trigger bar on frame etc, trigger must be progressive type with selector (i.e. on full auto setting, pull it slightly upto first break and it'll fire single shot, further pulling it would make it go full auto, on semi auto setting the length of pull//rotation could've been limited upto single-shot only)

so, maybe, try to make desi MP-7 equivalent here, using the design in hand ? just downscale it and it'll be done mostly

i know Astr guy have had some PDW design in mind but it was mostly limited to 9x19mm SMG-ish variant only, plus it appeared like inspired from B&T MP9-ish design in mind,
perhaps with their Indra design they could achieve more than a simple blowback operated SMG//Machine Pistol thing

 

[not so dravidian]

@Johny_Baba and others
noob question:

Can the 7.62x39 be reworked like 5.56 like Americans did? Like polymer cartridge??

First of all is there room for improvement?

 

[Marliii]

 

[Lonewarrior]

@Johny_Baba and others
noob question:

Can the 7.62x39 be reworked like 5.56 like Americans did? Like polymer cartridge??

First of all is there room for improvement?

Yes.
Almost any cartridge can be "modernized" by using polymer case. Polymer cased .50 BMG rounds are already in service, so doing that with 7.62x39mm won't be that big of a problem.

No.
Ballistically, there is no room for improvement in that round. In assault rifle spectrum, on one end you have rounds like 5.56 and 5.45; a light weight bullets going at high velocity. And on the other you have 7.62x51mm; where a relatively heavy bullet goes at high velocity.
And then you have this pig of a round; 7.62x39mm. Perfectly between both ends of that spectrum; a heavy bullet going at relatively slow speed. Worst of both worlds.

 

[Love Charger]

Yes.
Almost any cartridge can be "modernized" by using polymer case. Polymer cased .50 BMG rounds are already in service, so doing that with 7.62x39mm won't be that big of a problem.

No.
Ballistically, there is no room for improvement in that round. In assault rifle spectrum, on one end you have rounds like 5.56 and 5.45; a light weight bullets going at high velocity. And on the other you have 7.62x51mm; where a relatively heavy bullet goes at high velocity.
And then you have this pig of a round; 7.62x39mm. Perfectly between both ends of that spectrum; a heavy bullet going at relatively slow speed. Worst of both worlds.

Pigs can run fast bro.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Hope this Astr guy comes up with an AR-10/15 type gun design.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Hope this Astr guy comes up with an AR-10/15 type gun design.

If they want halp with ahem etc i can provide, just in case...

 

[Lonewarrior]

If they want halp with ahem etc i can provide, just in case...

Bit old school, par kuch kaam to hum bhi aa hi sakte hain...

 

[ManhattanProject]

If they want halp with ahem etc i can provide, just in case...

SSS ko bhej do, they are already making one. We might see prototypes in defexpo.

 

[Love Charger]

Bit old school, par kuch kaam to hum bhi aa hi sakte hain...
View attachment 142227

Bhai aap to khud me designer ho

 

[Johny_Baba]

SSS ko bhej do, they are already making one. We might see prototypes in defexpo.

lol i wish i could halp but they are much more resourced than certain fanboi like me, have cracked ;indigeneously designed developed manufactured; thing and what not, having had partnered with LMT they must've received some basic schematics papers showing dimensions and so, if not then that's all i have anyway
i think i shall respectfully observe from distance

 

[Marliii]

 

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[itsme]

 

[NotASussyBoi]

gotta give it to pakis,they have a better ofb than us

 

[Flying Dagger]

gotta give it to pakis,they have a better ofb than us

Choosing G3 in the first place and going for its licensed production was the best thing they did.

Our fault was we went with SLR which were good but not at the top under British influence and then we chose the unlicensed route.

If we had gone for Aks license production even in 70s things might have been much better and even now we are running away from AR -15 based rifle licensed production and buying bits and pieces.

Another problem is OFB quality control in India is pathetic the only one which seems to doing some effort is OFB Trichy now.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

In the 1960s, Belgium did offer us to help establish production line, by sending engineers if we licensed the FN-FAL from them.
However, OFB guys claimed that they can easily make the rifle using indegenous route, and Nehru went with the OFB option.