Small arms and Light Weapons

[Johny_Baba]

Ab to main bhi bolega.

- They claim to have filed for patent; you can't file any kind of IPR if it's a JV or even ToT.
Moreover Belgians are bit too woke to set up a collaboration with a country that does genocides in Kashmir. (main nai bol raha)

- There is usually an upward curve in terms of firearm development. It's not like all of a sudden someone comes up with G11. We are not US with 2nd amendment, how the heck they got so much exposure to guns to make such aesthetically pleasing gun!?
If we look even in the case of SSS Defence, we can see this curve. Their first iteration was complete shit; just scratch MDT logos and you're good to go. But now you can see how much refined their guns look.
In the case of Astr, this curve is mysteriously missing.

Now hear this story.
Someone in Amrika had taken a caliper, measured every dimensions in few FN guns he was having and made 3D models of it. These models were available in open source until few years ago. Then they were taken down after this ghost gun thing in US.
Most probable chances are, they got hold of those models, made few tweaks and printed it on PLA.

Regd FN i've said it before and reminding again,
whatever their public stance may be they indeed have suplied our guys with hundreds of FN FiveseveN, FN P90 and other stuff via black market channels, even after making those public statemets whatever,
even after Astr firearms brought that Indra there isn't much objection or anything from their side,
so i think there must be some reasons behind their ;blind eye; - could also be covert connections, who knows.

Rest everything else, agreed,
probably it's designed from available blueprints and stuffs that some hobbyist measured-made-shared on internet etc,
ala choyneez way,
still better than nothing though.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[AlphaRaiderZ]

AstrDefence's designed and developed in india pistol .Atal

Look at that and tell me it's a remodelled Sig m-18 with black finish

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Look at that and tell me it's a remodelled Sig m-18 with black finish

Does that really matters? Itni firearms ki kami Mai doobte ko kuch bhi chalega.
I think a quality firearm whether copied or not and passes reliability criteria is all that matters. As long as it is made completely in india and ip is owned by the Indian company, design could be of a foreign designer.

 

[AlphaRaiderZ]

Does that really matters? Itni firearms ki kami Mai doobte ko kuch bhi chalega.
I think a quality firearm whether copied or not and passes reliability criteria is all that matters. As long as it is made completely in india and ip is owned by the Indian company, design could be of a foreign designer.

What if only the grip rubber with Asta mark is made in India and the whole gun (receivers , barrel, bolt , hammer ,safety ....... Etc) is imported and assembled . That's what Indians are famous for . Being workers and not being innovative. Being satisfied with what's given to them and utilise them to the best with no questions asked or enquiries made .

 

[Lonewarrior]

🥱

 

[Kuldeepm952]

What if only the grip rubber with Asta mark is made in India and the whole gun (receivers , barrel, bolt , hammer ,safety ....... Etc) is imported and assembled . That's what Indians are famous for . Being workers and not being innovative. Being satisfied with what's given to them and utilise them to the best with no questions asked or enquiries made .

As I said, should be wholly indian made or atleast major parts like barrel, trigger group and other major parts should be indian atleast. A lit bit could be sourced from outside like outer polymer, magzines with the guarantee that all would be indigenized in meantime, doesn't really makes sense to make everything in house 'initially', also don't forget that IA is more happy to have foreign gun with little almost no trials and doesn't want to even look at indigenious alternative, otherwise you have upto Pluto trials to complete, look what they did to my ATAGS, Lch boy.
I would prefer above given that orders do take place otherwise we have OFB(now AWEIL) which will take another two decades to find that you can have underrail on handgun and a RMR sight can also be mounted there.
It's good to be sceptical but we don't really have another good option to fall back to. Maybe someone visiting Defexpo can ask them about their plans to be clear.
I really hope that atleast a few players emerge in small arms, infantry clothing, equipments and alike fields. This may finally allow our infantry which is most neglected to move forward.

 

[AlphaRaiderZ]

As I said, should be wholly indian made or atleast major parts like barrel, trigger group and other major parts should be indian atleast. A lit bit could be sourced from outside like outer polymer, magzines with the guarantee that all would be indigenized in meantime, doesn't really makes sense to make everything in house 'initially', also don't forget that IA is more happy to have foreign gun with little almost no trials and doesn't want to even look at indigenious alternative, otherwise you have upto Pluto trials to complete, look what they did to my ATAGS, Lch boy.
I would prefer above given that orders do take place otherwise we have OFB(now AWEIL) which will take another two decades to find that you can have underrail on handgun and a RMR sight can also be mounted there.
It's good to be sceptical but we don't really have another good option to fall back to. Maybe someone visiting Defexpo can ask them about their plans to be clear.
I really hope that atleast a few players emerge in small arms, infantry clothing, equipments and alike fields. This may finally allow our infantry which is most neglected to move forward.

I hope so too . Many people think Make Indian initiative will be Indian from nut to bolt . But that's impossible. However I believe we should atleast possess the ToT of some stuff

 

[Super falcon]

Chinese don't export 5.8x42mm, so it'll be in 5.56x45mm NATO only

Agreed my mistake how you look tha type of cartridge for me it has both penetration and accuracy

 

[MisraZ]

Agreed my mistake how you look tha type of cartridge for me it has both penetration and accuracy

No idea buddy. Chinese are pretty paranoid in this regard. Don't export a small arms cartridge and claim that it's better than both 5.56x45mm and 5.45x39mm. Pretty believable for sure.

Personally, I do like 6.5 grendel a lot and have been simping for it since long but only Serbians adopted it as standard along with 7.62x39mm. Sed lief.

 

[Twinblade]

The product lineup from Astr Defence from their website. They have expanded into optics as well.

Red Dot Sight

6X scope

Atal Pistol in 9x19

Atal pistol in 0.32 ACP (Civilian use)

Indra Multi caliber Rifle

They are also working on a 9x19 mm PDW/SMG

 

[Twinblade]

🥱
View attachment 141930

SSS? Astr? Whose is it?

 

[Lonewarrior]

SSS? Astr? Whose is it?

Fabrique Nationale Herstal

Now hear this story.
Someone in Amrika had taken a caliper, measured every dimensions in few FN guns he was having and made 3D models of it. These models were available in open source until few years ago. Then they were taken down after this ghost gun thing in US.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

say the modular defence gods here,y'all think if its the time to replace those old 9mm ones with these ones,also that trigger is that a two step safety or something?

Indian army isnt a big fan of pistols, they are mostly a showpiece to act as a sign of rank. But if they change, then it will be great. Looks like a Glock with bigger tabs for slide catch etc.

 

[Lonewarrior]

@Johny_Baba , found something for you.

This as Astr's INDRA.

Screw 1-3 to hold the rear trunnion, screw 4-5 for shell deflector, 6-7 to retain the barrel.
Also notice the circled curve in middle of the receiver.

Now coming to SCAR.

Not just same, but identical screw positions.

And perhaps most interestingly, that specific stepped up curve in the receiver.

 

[MisraZ]

UAR10 in action and there's a bolt action sniper as well.

 

[ManhattanProject]

The product lineup from Astr Defence from their website. They have expanded into optics as well.

Red Dot Sight

6X scope

Atal Pistol in 9x19

Atal pistol in 0.32 ACP (Civilian use)

Indra Multi caliber Rifle

They are also working on a 9x19 mm PDW/SMG

Looks like rebranded chinese optics. Going with a proprietary rock and lock mag for their rifle is a big mistake, they should have just went with SR-25 type magpul magazines used by our Sig 716i rifles.

 

[ManhattanProject]

@Johny_Baba , found something for you.

This as Astr's INDRA.
View attachment 141943
Screw 1-3 to hold the rear trunnion, screw 4-5 for shell deflector, 6-7 to retain the barrel.
Also notice the circled curve in middle of the receiver.

Now coming to SCAR.
View attachment 141945
Not just same, but identical screw positions.

And perhaps most interestingly, that specific stepped up curve in the receiver.
View attachment 141946

Who the fuck cares? Every rifle is a copy of some other thing. All these modern rifles have a bolt inspired by the AR-18 rifle. Look at CZ copying the scar. If we get a decent rifle, it wont matter if its a copy. In country like India where there is no historic firearms design legacy, copying from other companies is a very valid strategy.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

While it does not hurt to have a local copy of SCAR-H. But the question is do Astr defence have any manufacturing capabilities at all? How many can they make in a year. Their owner is a young graduate who made the first prototype in OFB Ishapore factory.

At least SSS defence and PLR have some manufacturing capabilities.

Only hope for Astr defence is if they tie up with some Industry major like Kayani, Reliance etc.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Who the fuck cares? Every rifle is a copy of some other thing. All these modern rifles have a bolt inspired by the AR-18 rifle. Look at CZ copying the scar. If we get a decent rifle, it wont matter if its a copy. In country like India where there is no historic firearms design legacy, copying from other companies is a very valid strategy.

Then AR-18's bolt itself was inspired by Johnson's design. But wait, wasn't Johnson's design also inspired from Lewis?
And the gas piston of AR-18. Wasn't it taken from SVT-40!?

I think you are still missing the point here.

"It won't matter if it's a copy" really!?
Didn't it mattered when Haenel copied elements of HK in their gun and they were sued!? Did Germany Army get a new gun!?