Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

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Screambowl

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^^ Irrespective of it, US continued losing soldiers in Afghanistan...as per your logic the outcome was zero High profile targets or not.
Relation between US and Pak are different. What US does in Pak , has different reactions than what India does in Pak.

Also high profile targets do not necessarily mean the most effective or even the most influential They happen to be public faces that hog all the attention, while allowing the "weed" to grow and suffocate the undergrowth.
I would repeat that such strikes were conducted prior to SS16 but never claimed. Before Modi claimed that India crossed LC he had already taken many countries in confidence through his visits and made sure to announce that they only took out tangos not Paki soldiers. Otherwise world reaction would have been different if not supportive.
 

Vijyes

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Relation between US and Pak are different. What US does in Pak , has different reactions than what India does in Pak.



I would repeat that such strikes were conducted prior to SS16 but never claimed. Before Modi claimed that India crossed LC he had already taken many countries in confidence through his visits and made sure to announce that they only took out tangos not Paki soldiers. Otherwise world reaction would have been different if not supportive.
Do you know Indian population? Do you know what will happen if that many people were to be radicalised? Do you know that India has 2lakh tonnes of uranium? Do you know that India has 25 billion tons or iron and 200 billion tonnes of extractable coal?

Who do you think should be afraid? India or the world? Why bother about gaining international shabhashi. India is too powerful to be messed with. It is just that no one had the guts to raise armed rebellion. But, that need not always continue. So, don't underestimate India.
 

VIP

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Pak is doing such misadventures every day because they try to over come their conventional inferiority through such off the record ops.

It was only about claiming which India never did. Till surgical strikes happened. Otherwise such ops are day to day activities.

It was just about crossing the LC and claiming it that yes we crossed.

India has the capability to enter deep off the record or on the record and return. And Pakis know it since day 1 because it's happening with them. But India never claimed it before.
I was talking about Misadventures like Mumbai Terror attack. If Uri attack could lead to Surgical Op across border, imagine what could happen if Pakis try to pull stunts like Mumbai again. Indian forces, NSA & Modi seriously mean business, don't try to undermine their intentions.
 

S.Balaji

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Rest assured we are screwing the napakis on both the Durand and Loc.... remember Chaman on Durand
 

Screambowl

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I was talking about Misadventures like Mumbai Terror attack. If Uri attack could lead to Surgical Op across border, imagine what could happen if Pakis try to pull stunts like Mumbai again. Indian forces, NSA & Modi seriously mean business, don't try to undermine their intentions.
If Pakis try? They are trying every day. Who told you they are not trying?
 

S.Balaji

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We all know how we are totally screwing the rabid dogs on Loc...but remember we are also doing the same on Durand line

Remember we were one among the patrons (Tajik/India/Iran & Russia) of erstwhile Northern Alliance's Charismatic leader Massod, one of the few countries with advisers/SF/Med corps on the ground pre-9/11, against an organised battle hardened jihadis propped by ISI. NA was the only bulwark against the Taliban-Pak behemoth that bulldozed Afghanistan with active participation of PA in fire fights backed with bombing raids using PAF F-16s across Durand Line. Masood who told European parliament on an impending attack on US mainland 3 months before 9/11, was assassinated 2 days before Md Atta and team brought down WTC. Masood himself died en-route while being airlifted to an Indian field hospital on Tajik/Afgan border.

That umbilical cord is still not severed. Why do you think we are the only country to have embassy in Jalabad in '03 (Pak opened one later as a counter) a dusty town 70kms from Pakistan border post Tokram, a launchpad into NWFP and KP. Paks oft repeated grouse is the strength of our embassy in the dusty town (and also Kandahar, conduit for Baloch freedom struggle). Peshwar is just about one hour ride away. Why do think Haqqanis targeted the Jalabad embassy last year with not one but three suicide bombers.

Did u know we were instrumental in setting up Afganistan's external intelligence agency and trained them "Riyast - i -Amoor-o-amanat-i-milliyah"/Research and Analysis Milli Afghan" RAMA in short. Why do you think Afghan external intelligence agency HQ & training center is in Jabul Siraj district of parwan. The HQ of late Ahmed Shah Masood where our advisory/SF team rotated from during the '96-'01 period. Did u know Masood's one time NA's stalwarts "Sewari" is the ruler of Jalalabad? We go a long way in Afghanistan.

Rest assured the protector of islam is getting screwed on both sides of the border Durand & LOC. Why do you think after the fidayeen style attack on us in Mazar-e-sharief (thwarted by ITBP/Afgan SF in a 24hrs ops) last year was paid back in the same coin in 10 days time at Pak embassy in Jalalabad ...all hell broke loose at Pakistan embassy in Jalalabad with same MO, attackers holed up in a strong room in a house opp to embassy. We showed we can play the same game.....fidayeen attack... remember Chaman on Durand..
 

VIP

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If Pakis try? They are trying every day. Who told you they are not trying?
Not Kashmir, Mumbai attack and Kashmir valley are different. Kashmir valley is full of traitors unlike rest of the India. Such big terror attack, killing hundreds will only be kind of death warrant for many Paki terrorists and soldiers.
 

S.Balaji

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If Pakis try? They are trying every day. Who told you they are not trying?
Did u notice the flurry of statements emanating from across the border during the change of heart of musa......UJC leadership said their target is restricted to military in Kashmir and not civilians and any other part of India...during khangress they were hitting us all over northern India n in 3+ years of Modi Sarkar their ops r restricted to Kashmir n Pathankot...wat do u think led their change of heart?

Did anyone notice similar tapering of blood letting in Pak cities after peaking during first two years of current dispensation? Current year has seen lowest casualties in terrorism in pak

Surgical strike is a natural incremental escalation in scheme of things..to assuage the public...nothing more

Will rabid dogs stop attacking us? No...but won't go beyond attacking military targets in Kashmir as against during khangress rule.

But red lines have been shifted...threshold for tolerance has been reduced...lesson in in blood was taught n learnt

Don't u think when a ship can run aground in Mumbai without anyone monitoring they can't repeat Mumbai? Of course it can be done but the current dispensation had made the cost prohibitive.
 

mayfair

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Relation between US and Pak are different. What US does in Pak , has different reactions than what India does in Pak.
Now you are just shifting the goalposts Relations between US and Pak have nothing to do with the point here. I asked you a simple question- Did US taking out OBL in Abbottabad change anything in Afghanistan? Speaking from that point of yours, not nothing did. 20 seals were shot down just after. Attacks on NATO happened. US continued to pump in money and weapons.

Napakis reacted the same way as they did after 26/9- anger, fury and denial. Many of them still do. The presence of the crashed chopper and the arrest of Afridi nailed their lies. Their reaction to the 26/9 strike was based on this experience- completely deny that anything happened and destroy the evidence.

I would repeat that such strikes were conducted prior to SS16 but never claimed. Before Modi claimed that India crossed LC he had already taken many countries in confidence through his visits and made sure to announce that they only took out tangos not Paki soldiers. Otherwise world reaction would have been different if not supportive.
There's a big difference between what happened on 26/9 and what happened previously. Previous strikes were tactical local level operations or badla strikes. This was emphasised by Maj Gen Bakshi and also by Lt Gen Hooda in his recent interviews. This time we struck targets BOTH SIDES of the Pir Panjal, SIMULTANEOUSLY. The between the first and the last strike was FIVE AND A HALF HOURS. The ops were planned meticulously and the entire chain of command was in the loop.

No other countries knew about this, if they did Napakis would have come to know. World reaction was supportive because the world is sick and tired of terrorism and they know that much if not all of it emanates from Shitistan. Not because they were taken into confidence.
 

square

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Wow! ANOTHER surgical strike??? :confused1: This guy has got his balls in a jam!! I thought these Pakis said there was no surgical strike? Lol! Denialstan!! :doh: :rofl:
i think there is something happening , because even their UN represetative mahila lodi states the same few days ago.....

India "claims, falsely, to have conducted a so-called 'surgical strike' across the Line of Control (LOC)," she said. "This claim, and India's repeated threats to conduct such 'strikes' across the LOC," violated the UN Charter and provide "Pakistan sufficient reason to respond in exercise of its right to self-defense," she added. ...
in the same santence she is calling it false as well as a violation of the UN charter
 
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S.Balaji

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We had discussed threadbare the progression of events in kashmir leading to complete suffocation of terrorism.... from unleashing nia investigation against seperatists to pellets for stone throwers to decimation of terrorists by Sf ...but one has to see the action in valley not in isolation but to the indian encirclement of pak by cooption with our neighbours... Encirclement of Pak by India is complete....has anyone heard of a town called zahedan in Iran? We have full fledged Embassy staffed by raw..there were created to cater to a Indian Population of 21 Sikh families....y the pretense ? Bcus It is half hour drive from trijunction of Iran afgan n Pak. Encirclement was complete even during khangress time but not potent in its ops...corrupt khangrees was not able to rein in raw that led to sharm l sheikh statement....it was a impotent shot by khangress against its own RAW...in the same veins as ishrat case against IB ...what do you think happens in Afghan Military Base of Qushila Jadid, in southern Helmand?
 
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sorcerer

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Cutting dependence on the Chicken's Neck corridor - Modi's grand plan to connect to the North-East

Pronab Payeng from Majuli is a navigator of SL Lohit, one of the five survey vessels stationed in the Brahmaputra. For the last 27 years — since he has been associated with Inland Waterways Authority of India (IWAI) — Payeng has spent more nights on the river than on its bank. He understands the pulse of the river, which singer Bhupen Hazarika once termed Mahabahu (the mighty); the Assam stretch of the river from Sadiya to Dhubri, for example, is 891 km long and 15 km wide near Dhubri, according to satellite images procured by the state’s water resources department. For hydrographic surveyors measuring the depth of the river through the thalweg survey, Payeng is an asset beyond his navigational skills. He can tell them with precision the locations where the river has turned shallow — Subansiri Mukh (Subansiri is the largest tributary of the Brahmaputra), Borgang Mukh, Bhekeli in Majuli, Orang et al. The thalweg survey duly confirmed what Payeng’s intuitive intelligence would only reinstate — a thalweg is the line of lowest elevation in a watercourse — necessitating interventions like dredging.

The government of India in July sanctioned Rs 400 crore to dredge the Brahmaputra. Four dredgers have already been deployed and two more are being procured. Each dredger — including a cutter suction dredger (CSD), a tug (which pushes or tows the CSD) and houseboat (for night accommodation) — costs between Rs 35 and 40 crore.

Then, New Delhi has tied up with the Bangladesh Inland Water Transport Authority (Biwta) to dredge two river stretches — from Sirajganj to Daikhawa (175 km) in the Jamuna in Bangladesh (which is the Brahmaputra in India) and from Ashuganj to Zakiganj (295 km) in the Kushiyara, a distributary river across Bangladesh and Assam and a branch of the Barak river of south Assam. India has committed 80% of Rs 305 crore required for these two stretches; the remaining will come from Bangladesh. The contracts are likely to be awarded by the end of this year; Indian and Bangladesh dredging companies or their consortia will be eligible to bid, according to a senior IWAI official privy to the matter. The dredging in the Bangladesh stretches will begin by February-March 2018, with the contractors getting two years to dredge 2.5 to 3 metres of LAD (least available depth) in a 45-m-wide channel, with a binding clause of five years of maintenance.


The Alternate Route ::

If the two neighbours have their way, by mid-2020 India will cease to depend only on the Chicken’s Neck, the 22-km corridor near Siliguri in West Bengal that connects the Northeast with the rest of the country. Once the dredging in Bangladesh is complete, large vessels can move from Varanasi in National Waterway 1 (NW-1, the Ganga) to NW-2 (Brahmaputra) and NW-16 (Barak) via Bangladesh river channels, thereby reducing the over-dependence on the narrow stretch.

“Dredging in Bangladesh will help reducing congestion in the Northeast,” said Nitin Gadkari, minister of road transport, highways and shipping in a detailed written reply to ET Magazine’s questions on the rationale behind India’s largesse to dredge channels in Bangladesh. The minister may not be mandated to talk in detail about the strategic importance of the alternative route, but India’s quest to build an alternative route, that too expeditiously, is only logical considering the recent Chinese military buildup at Doklam, to the north of the strategically-vulnerable Chicken’s Neck, on the pretext of expanding its road connectivity.

Though there was an official “disengagement” in the area since August 28, recent reports suggest that about 1,000 personnel belonging to People’s Liberation Army are still stationed in Chumbi Valley near the Siliguri corridor.

The river route will have economic spinoffs as well. “Britishers used cargo steamers for carrying petroleum, timber and coal products from Assam to the seaports through the rivers. But that route became redundant. Now, dredging in Bangladesh will once again make the river channels navigable throughout the year. Landlocked Northeast will then have access to the seaports,” says Assam Chief Minister Sarbananda Sonowal. Siliguri corridor and will also provide an alternative route to the There will be dividends in terms of fuel and environmental costs, as one vessel with a capacity of 2,000 metric tonnes of cargo will keep as many as 200 trucks off the road. According to IWAI estimates, cost of water transport is the cheapest compared to road and rail (see How Waterways are the Most Economical). What is more, the luxury tourist vessels currently cruising from Varanasi to Haldia in the Ganga and from Pandu (Guwahati) to Neemati Ghat (near Jorhat) in the Brahmaputra could find new routes to sail.

The existing Indo-Bangladesh Protocol route (1,647 km) connects Kolkata with Silghat (near Nagaon in Assam) and then Kolkata with Karimganj (south Assam). Under this protocol, the dos and don’ts of inland water transit and trade including customs checks, documentation, opening of branch offices, appointments of agents by vessel operators, transactions in the port of calls and the like are clearly defined. Under this route, ships are allowed to stop on a voyage only in key ports — Narayaganj, Khulna, Mongla, Sirajganj and Ashuganj in Bangladesh; and Kolkata, Haldia, Karimganj, Pandu (Guwahati) and Silghat in India.

And it’s not that cargo vessels cannot pass through Bangladesh waters. Only four months ago, a vessel carrying iron rods from Kolkata sailed via Bangladesh to Tripura. There was plenty of excitement at Ashuganj port in Bangladesh, with none other than the shipping minister receiving the vessel.


The Annual Deluge ::

The problem, though, arises when water levels recede after the monsoons, making the river unsuitable for large vessels to navigate. That’s where the dredging is expected to play a pivotal role. The companies involved in dredging and building of river ports may find a new lease of life, as the NDA government is clearly betting on developing waterways as an alternative and cost-effective way of transporting cargo. The National Waterways Act declared as many as 111 national waterways encompassing 24 states in India, up from mere five waterways prior to April 2016 when the legislation came into effect.

A Rs 5,369 crore-project to develop NW-1 from Haldia to Varanasi is currently underway in a 50:50 partnership between the Centre and the World Bank. The project, which will enable the movement of large vessels of 1,500-2,000 tonnes capacity, is scheduled to be completed by 2022-23. Similar projects are on the drawing board to develop the Cumberjua canal, and Mandovi and Zuari rivers in Goa (Rs 23 crore), canals in Kerala (Rs 1.6 crore), Gandak river in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar (Rs 12.91 crore), and the Rupnarayan river (Rs 24 crore) and Sunderbans Waterways (Rs 18.1 crore) in West Bengal; dredging will be a major component of all these projects.

Harshvardhan Bhatnagar, president of Ardeshir B Cursetjee and Sons Ltd, a company established way back in 1810 that specialises in maritime activities including dredging, says that the company has been in talks with European and US dredger manufacturers to buy new-age machines. The company currently owns five dredgers. “We foresee opportunities for large and longterm contracts for dredging. They will offer a high occupancy rate of dredgers.” Bhatnagar adds that the company will compete for the work in Bangladesh only after understanding the terms and conditions.

Can the dredging be a flood mitigating mechanism too, considering that an unstable Brahmaputra is one of the reasons for annual floods in Assam? Bhatnagar isn’t too upbeat. “Dredging in general is not a tool to control floods. The merits of dredging for flood mitigation will, however, depend on case to case.”

Assam has witnessed four rounds of floods this year that killed over 150 people, and the CM is counting on dredging to alleviate flooding woes. “Dredging will reduce floods as the water-carrying capacity of the Brahmaputra will increase,” reckons Sonowal, echoing what he had said to this writer in an interview in July when the Assam flood was at its peak, and the towns like North Lakhimpur were almost submerged.


The Sed ment Element ::

In Dhubri where the Brahmaputra is currently the widest at 15 km, before it enters Bangladesh and changes its name to Jamuna, dredging was undertaken for a month last winter to facilitate a RO-RO (roll on, roll off ) service to ferry goods and passengers between Dhubri and Hatsingmari (the southern path of the Brahmaputra), a distance of 32 km; this made a circuitous road route of 220-km via Jogighopa redundant. The key part of the dredger — CSD-Mandovi — excavated sand and deposited it on a nearby existing sand shore with 200-m-long pipeline. But a 45-m channel being dug in a river that’s as wide as 15 km may be a totally different ballgame. Gadkari has talked about using the sand to build highways, but how feasible is that?

Experts who ET Magazine spoke in Dhubri clearly say that there’s no way that the excavated sand could be thrown onto the side of the river. Also, while throwing away the sand, the pipeline contains 30% water along with 70% sand. This means that if the pipes are directed at the riverbank, they’re likely to create havoc for those living by the riverside. Chandan Mahanta, professor of civil engineering department at IIT-Guwahati, suggests that there should first be a pilot to judge efficiency of dredging before more dredgers are deployed. “To quantitatively measure the efficiency of dredging in the Brahmaputra, carrying out a pilot project in and around dynamic places like Majuli may be useful, if it’s accompanied by bank stabilisation. However, considering the enormous and continuous inflow of non-cohesive sediments, a comprehensive approach will be essential to make even localised dredging somewhat effective,” says Mahanta.

The highways — and the sand for them — can clearly wait. The first priority is a waterway that connects the northeast to the rest of the country.


Three men in a boat ::

ET Magazine travels 1.5 km on a survey vessel down the river Brahmaputra

SL Lohit is one of the five survey vessels presently stationed in the river Brahmaputra. The others are SL Subansiri, SL Barak, SL Dibang and SL Burhidihing, all named after Assam’s rivers or tributaries. Early this week, it began a seven-day-long journey upstream from Pandu port (near Guwahati) to Neemati Ghat (near Jorhat). It has two mandates. One, the hydrographic surveyors undertake a thalweg survey mainly to measure the depth of the river and spot the areas where the LAD (least available depth) is below the permissible level of 2.5 metres. Two, it escorts a two-storied river cruise vessel MV Mahabaahu that ferries foreign tourists from Guwahati to Jorhat, which touches the Kaziranga National Park, a sanctuary known for its one-horned rhinoceros.

As Sandeep Kumar and Sonu Singhal, both hydrographic surveyors with a civil engineering background, switch on the machine in the airconditioned cabin of SL Lohit, they can read and record the depth of the river, the vessel’s location and speed, and also the route it’s taking. Near Guwahati, they find the depth of the river as high as 29 feet (8.8 metres). “The riverbed near rocky hills gets eroded over time, which explains the fabulous depth here”, the surveyors discuss.

But the Brahmaputra has many locations with shallow depth, something that forces the government to contemplate the deployment of dredgers — six to begin with. For example, the surveyors of SL Lohit found many shallow areas in a survey undertaken only last month. Here are five locations with the least depth:




http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...rivers-in-bangladesh/articleshow/60987695.cms
 

Screambowl

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Not Kashmir, Mumbai attack and Kashmir valley are different.
I would not make further post after this on irregular warfare.

My common-sense tells me they try to sneak in everyday wherever possible. Which is being well countered by agencies.
 

Screambowl

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Did US taking out OBL in Abbottabad change anything in Afghanistan?
US has presence in Afg that's all they want. It might have not changed things in Afg but it did change worlds view towards Pakistan. Same is the result of Indian SS16 .

There's a big difference between what happened on 26/9 and what happened previously. Previous strikes were tactical local level operations or badla strikes. This was emphasised by Maj Gen Bakshi and also by Lt Gen Hooda in his recent interviews. This time we struck targets BOTH SIDES of the Pir Panjal, SIMULTANEOUSLY. The between the first and the last strike was FIVE AND A HALF HOURS. The ops were planned meticulously and the entire chain of command was in the loop.

No other countries knew about this, if they did Napakis would have come to know. World reaction was supportive because the world is sick and tired of terrorism and they know that much if not all of it emanates from Shitistan. Not because they were taken into confidence.
You don't know this doesn't mean that it never happened. And this is my point that, India never overtly did something like that. In short I will say, a covert op was made overt.
 

hammer head

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They took out very high level targets.
Indian action was cleaning the weed and primitive strike.



I used to shout because India never claimed due to peace loving netas. And netas feared such ops.

Now Army does not have to hide as they got free hand and can claim that they did it. Unlike before where MI and SF had to do it silently without brining the civil leadership and not claiming any thing.

It's just about saying, yes we did it.




Pak is doing such misadventures every day because they try to over come their conventional inferiority through such off the record ops.

It was only about claiming which India never did. Till surgical strikes happened. Otherwise such ops are day to day activities.

It was just about crossing the LC and claiming it that yes we crossed.

India has the capability to enter deep off the record or on the record and return. And Pakis know it since day 1 because it's happening with them. But India never claimed it before.
Hold your horses friend and please correct some very important fact before moving ahead.
MI or SF would NEVER EVER carryout a response interms of a localised RAID on a near by enemy post if the Govt DOES NOT DESIRE. And i wish i could elaborate on that matter giving you examples where the Armys hand were tired ( Congress Raaj), Today a local commander be it at a Section level or at the Corps HQ would do what he thinks is best as per the situation ( Modi Sarkar).

Then your narrative that " Surgical Strikes have not achieved anything" is based on a air bubble which will burst. I will give you a basic example and i am sure @Mikesingh sir would second me, before SS the pakis were so chillaxed in thier life at the post that their was hardly anyone manning it properly during day and night ( double sentries are deployed, which they did not as the fear of god was not their) but once the balloon went up so did the basic drills.

Till SS the pakis had always predicted our responce and Kadi ninda, but today !! Mashallah they cant even predict our next shot.
SS has dented and punctured the very heart of their FALSE BRAVADO, THAT HINDU BANINYA FAUJ DOES NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO RETALIATE. And that Gentleman is VICTORY.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Really ! Tell me more about it nd why such news is not leaked, how are we suppose to know.
A few days later the Para SF conducted raid on the post which provided support to these BAT people.

I know this from a member of the unit whose soldier was beheaded but didnt know the figures.

Figures were recently disclosed by Gen Bakshi while talking about surgical strikes and cross border raids on Republic Tv.
 

aditya g

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.... imagine what could happen if Pakis try to pull stunts like Mumbai again. ....
And that's exactly what Pakis are wondering as well.

More than what Pakis are thinking, the Indian people now know that our gormint can respond to such attacks. Kadi ninda will be served up first but behind closed doors Modi, Doval, Swaraj and entire CCS has the confidence and intention to act. Modi clearly stated on twitter that Uri will not be unavenged, and look what he did!

It was revealed in the recent books that Modi wanted air strikes but went with professional military opinion of going for the (riskier) special forces option.

If 26/11 were to happen again then who is to say that say, airstrikes will be held back?
 
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