Project-75I class SSK Submarines

[nrj]

Ofcourse floating tender is months away. Whats the surprise here?

TOI's top defense source is as reliable as nothing!

 

[sandeepdg]

Well, the IN ain't getting any P-75I sub before 2020 for sure now.

 

[agentperry]

im damn sure that once in next 10 years we will be having as many subs as PN is having and then paki trolls will invade dfi. with this trend India will be left with below 10 submarine by 2020.
leave china come back to their aukat of competing with pakland only, are you listening MoD

 

[Galaxy]

im damn sure that once in next 10 years we will be having as many subs as PN is having and then paki trolls will invade dfi. with this trend India will be left with below 10 submarine by 2020.
leave china come back to their aukat of competing with pakland only, are you listening MoD

Not really.

We will have around 6-8 from 14 existing submarines by 2020. In Addition, 6 scorpion + 5 Arihant/Akula will be operational by 2020. So, We will be operating around 18 Submarines by 2020.

If we finalise Amur/S-2000 as early as next year, May be 3-4 more around 2020-2022. Also, One more possibilities of 3 more scorpion if we finalise in next 1-2 years then these 3 would be inducted by 2020-2022.

Although, I agree we lack submarines and if we take some fast decision then problem can be solved after 10 years with 20-25 quality submarines. But as usual, MoD is sleeping with height of slow procurement.

 

[nrj]

Well, the IN ain't getting any P-75I sub before 2020 for sure now.

P75 will only become extension of P75 with increasing orders for scorpene. After first 2 units, next deliveries will keep coming with 8 months gap.

 

[agentperry]

Not really.

We will have around 6-8 from 14 existing submarines by 2020. In Addition, 6 scorpion + 5 Arihant/Akula will be operational by 2020. So, We will be operating around 18 Submarines by 2020.

If we finalise Amur/S-2000 as early as next year, May be 3-4 more around 2020-2022. Also, One more possibilities of 3 more scorpion if we finalise in next 1-2 years then these 3 would be inducted by 2020-2022.

Although, I agree we lack submarines and if we take some fast decision then problem can be solved after 10 years with 20-25 quality submarines. But as usual, MoD is sleeping with height of slow procurement.

sir dont you think you are too optimist about arihant. no sarcasm but this is the first time, India with no knowhow of making a conventional submarine, is out in blue water with a nuclear submarine. IN will be out with full force to check its validity so that it do not meet any accident in high seas and not to forget any glitches. trials are exhaustive and are supposed to go on for longer. the nuclear reactors will take longer to commission because they are afterall nuclear reactors.
i guess 2-3 arihants will be max no of arihants we will be having by 2020 and scorpenes. well see. 3 consecutive dead line push. well 10 was a bit of pessimist calculation but i guess 12 or so will be the no by 2020

 

[agentperry]

P75 will only become extension of P75 with increasing orders for scorpene. After first 2 units, next deliveries will keep coming with 8 months gap.

its 1 year gap as far as media reports and press release is to be believed.

 

[nrj]

its 1 year gap as far as media reports and press release is to be believed.

MDL along with few gentlemen from IN/DCNS recently briefed MoD highlighting 8 months gap in subsequent deliveries post 2013-14. They are targeting bigger order with GOI running out of options. New department created in IN to analyze such possibilities which includes adding more scorpenes.

 

[Galaxy]

sir dont you think you are too optimist about arihant. no sarcasm but this is the first time, India with no knowhow of making a conventional submarine, is out in blue water with a nuclear submarine. IN will be out with full force to check its validity so that it do not meet any accident in high seas and not to forget any glitches. trials are exhaustive and are supposed to go on for longer. the nuclear reactors will take longer to commission because they are afterall nuclear reactors.
i guess 2-3 arihants will be max no of arihants we will be having by 2020 and scorpenes. well see. 3 consecutive dead line push. well 10 was a bit of pessimist calculation but i guess 12 or so will be the no by 2020

We inducting Akula next year mainly for trial purpose only. Already 2nd Arihant class ATV is in production. 1st Arihant will be inducted in 1-2 years. Most likely, By 2020 - We will be operating 5 ATV's, or conservative basis 4.

India commences work on 2nd N-submarine

The project is expected to be ready for sea trials by 2015. By that time India would have a Russian submarine and INS Arihant deployed.

So most likely we will be operating at least 4 Arihant by 2020 if sea trials take place by 2015. 1 Akula may be or may be not.

6 scorpion

So, 6+(4-5) + 7-8 existing will make 18. We might go with 3 more scorpion or/and 6 Amur/S-2000. But I completely agree with you that we need more quality submarines ASAP. We need at least 22-25 quality submarines including 5 ATV for Blue Navy. Also, our submarines quality will be far better than PN. comparing Apple and Orange is not fruitful. :thumb:

 

[agentperry]

We inducting Akula next year mainly for trial purpose only. Already 2nd Arihant class ATV is in production. 1st Arihant will be inducted in 1-2 years. Most likely, By 2020 - We will be operating 5 ATV's, or conservative basis 4.

India commences work on 2nd N-submarine



So most likely we will be operating at least 4 Arihant by 2020 if sea trials take place by 2015. 1 Akula may be or may be not.

6 scorpion

So, 6+4 + 7-8 existing will make 17-18. We might go with 3 more scorpion or/and 6 Amur/S-2000. But I completely agree with you that we need more quality submarines ASAP. We need at least 22-25 submarines including 5 ATV for Blue Navy.

as per IN release only 5 submarine will be available out of current fleet by 2017. so 5+ 6 scorpene hopefully by 2019 and 4+1 boomers will make it 16 that too when scorpene delivery starts by 2013 and 1 scorpene every year.

 

[nrj]

Take ATVs here - http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-navy/10-atv-ins-arihant-first-picture-arihant.html

& Scorpene talk here - http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-navy/4844-scorpene-submarines-news-discussions.html

Keep this thread for P75-I

 

[SPIEZ]

Are we buying the S1000 Subs or not ?

I had read that LnT have the license to produce these subs !

 

[nrj]

Are we buying the S1000 Subs or not ?

I had read that LnT have the license to produce these subs !

LOL

No license to L&T unless MoD approves the deal.

S1000 is one of the contenders for P75A & P75B. But the subs are on design boards only. IN will be betting a lot if we shortlist them. Also their AIP is not tested.

 

[SPIEZ]

LOL

No license to L&T unless MoD approves the deal.

S1000 is one of the contenders for P75A & P75B. But the subs are on design boards only. IN will be betting a lot if we shortlist them. Also their AIP is not tested.

Forgive my ignorance but How does P75A differ from P75B ?

 

[plugwater]

Its better to increase the scorpene count to 9 and start building them now in MDL. So that we can use HSL and another private shipyard for building 75I.

75I will be our last foreign submarine procurement, after that no imports of underwater vessels.

 

[nrj]

Forgive my ignorance but How does P75A differ from P75B ?

P75B was initiated because of delay in original P75 (Scorpene) procurement. Some believe it to be another extension to RFP of P75A. However separate RFI was issued 10-11 months back to russian/european shipyards.

With last 2 units of scorpene to be equipped with AIP, IN will have almost 10-11 AIP subs by the time last units of P75A/+ arrives.

P75A - 6 subs
P75B - 6(reported)

At the end of the day it remains with MoD/IN to consolidate P75B into P75A or keep it separate.

 

[plugwater]

^^ I thought they changed the name of P75B to P75I(India).

 

[nrj]

Major difference in keeping it separate imo is because of lack of mutual consensus between brahmos corp & IN. IN wants to keep vertical launchers only for taking out ASW aircrafts. However Brahmos corp proposes to use VLS for brahmos missiles for offensive role & keep torpedo tubes for defense. Its too much Pillai asking for just because brahmos can't fit in tubes of proposed tubes.

If this difference fails to meet conclusion, IN will have no option to change its strategy & ask more units with distinct armament. New IN chief has different opinions than the predecessor. AFAIK these are the reasons keeping A/B talks alive.

 

[Galaxy]

Russian Subs Amur-1650 to Attend Indian Tender

Russian Subs Amur-1650 to Attend Indian Tender

06.12.2011

Russia will participate in the Indian Navy's tender for non-nuclear submarines with its Project Amur-1650, said Director General of Sevmash shipyard and Rubin Design Bureau Andrei Diachkov.

"Most probably, in mid-2012 India would issue a tender for diesel submarines, and hopefully we would win it. We offer a well-balanced and quite capable sub. I'm talking of Project Amur-1650", Diachkov said.

As for him, the submarine is armed with Club-C missile system. "It uses BrahMos missiles jointly developed by Russia and India. We propose to equip Amur-class submarines with such launching tubes", specified the interviewee.

He said that Rubin Design Bureau had already elaborated such project. "We managed to accommodate those missiles in submarine vertically", Diachkov said.

These submarines will be constructed by Admiralteyskie Verfi shipyard under export order by the project designed by Rubin bureau.

The new fourth-generation non-nuclear submarines will have improved performance characteristics. As a result, Amur-1650 became capable to deliver salvo launches at sea surface targets, both single and group ones.

In addition, noisiness level of the new subs has been considerably reduced comparing to subs of the previous generations; submarines will be equipped with new up-to-date radioelectronics, automated steering and combat control system, new all-mode propelling motor and long-life battery.

Surface displacement of Amur-1650-class submarines is 1,765 tons; length is 67 meters; beam is 7 meters; speed is 21 knots; test depth is 300 meters; endurance is 45 days; crew is 35 men.

Russian Subs Amur-1650 to Attend Indian Tender

 

[Galaxy]

Looks like Russia is not interested in S-1000 as it might divided the profit between Fincantieri and Rubin Design Bureau, Although it was reported that S-1000 is advance version of Amur. May be not yet ready.