Project-75I class SSK Submarines

[p2prada]

Amur is ready for construction. U-214 is quite old while Marlin and S-80 are still in development.

S-1000 is an upgraded version of the Amur. Would prefer either S-1000 or Amur considering both can be rigged to launch Brahmos vertically. The others will come with Exocets or Harpoons.

 

[Armand2REP]

Amur is ready for construction.

I guess you don't keep up with the news.

http://defenceforumindia.com/global-defence/27808-lada-class-submarine-deemed-failure.html

 

[p2prada]

I guess you don't keep up with the news.

http://defenceforumindia.com/global-defence/27808-lada-class-submarine-deemed-failure.html

Amur is seen as a corrected version. It is a lot smaller as well, as much as 20%. It may have crossed benchmarks required by our RFP. So, it does not necessarily mean it should conform to Russian Navy standards anymore.

The S-1000 could be an equivalent or even exceed it. Both types are Rubin designs.

 

[Armand2REP]

With the death of the Lada so goes the Amur. It is the export version of said SSK. The S-1000 is a 5 year old PROPOSAL that went NOWHERE. Fincantier didn't even get an RFP. The Ruskies have nothing to offer.

 

[agentperry]

pakistan is already in negotiation to get U-214, so forget it

and they will keep on negotiating it till eternity. they dont have cash for rail coaches fuel leave aside submarine

 

[pmaitra]

and they will keep on negotiating it till eternity. they dont have cash for rail coaches fuel leave aside submarine

Actually, they somehow always find money for weapons, even if they have to travel on bullock-carts or eat grass!

 

[nrj]

Scorpene production lines will be hot when we decide on P75A. Its very logical to extend the scorpene orders.

 

[bhramos]

Actually, they somehow always find money for weapons, even if they have to travel on bullock-carts or eat grass!

may be this money is collected by ISI, from different countries for Ramadan and by Drug cultivation in various areas of NFPK...

 

[Apollyon]

pakistan is already in negotiation to get U-214, so forget it

If i recall correctly Pakistan didn't had the cash to pay as an advance payment for Submarine contract to HDW and Germany was not interested in giving soft loan to the Land of Pure, so this deal was never finalised.

OT ..I was surprised HDW didn't offered U-212 instead of U-214. While later is merely an upgrade to U-209 operated by IN, former is fairly an advanced design with 3 deck layout and an X-tail configuration.

 

[bose]

We need Submarines in large numbers for that we have to look for third construction yard... Russian Amur class sub is very promissing... we may also work closely with french for an upgraded AIP Scorpine that will be easy to manage the production lines...

 

[Galaxy]

IMO, We should buy 6 Amur Submarine. 3 from Russian facility and 3 by HS or Pvt companies like L&T. (S-1,000 and S-80 will still take few more years for production) We should order 3 more scorpion as MDL will able to start working on 3 such submarine as their facility will have no work after 2014.

By this way, We will have 22-23 submarines and 5 Arihant class SSBN by 2022-2024.

 

[Anshu Attri]

With eye on China & Pak, India to revamp sub fleet


With eye on China & Pak, India to revamp sub fleet - The Times of India

Faced with a fast-depleting underwater combat arm even as both China and Pakistan bolster their fleets, India is looking at major rejig of its submarine production plans to ensure its operational readiness does not get further eroded in the coming years.

For starters, the case for equipping the last two of the six French Scorpene submarines being built at Mazagon Docks with the crucial air-independent propulsion systems is being "progressed'', say defence ministry sources.

The six diesel-electric Scorpenes are slated for delivery in the 2015-20 timeframe under the ongoing Rs 23,562-crore 'Project-75', three years behind schedule. AIP in the fifth and sixth vessels, at a cost of an additional Rs 1,000 crore each, will give them a deadlier punch and stealth because they will be able to stay submerged much longer before surfacing to get oxygen to recharge their batteries.

India is likely to go in for three additional Scorpenes after the first six. "While no decision has yet been taken, it makes economic sense since six of them are being built at MDL. The second submarine workshop at MDL will get operational soon,'' said a source.

It will also be operationally expedient since, as was first reported by TOI earlier, the long-delayed follow-on 'Project-75India' to acquire six new-generation stealth submarines will take at least another two to three years to be finalized. It will take another seven years, if not more, after that for the first new submarine to roll out.

'Going in for three more Scorpenes is one way out of the logjam over P-75I, with Navy and MoD yet to agree on the shipyards to execute the project. The French companies will charge hefty amounts for the ToT (transfer of technology) packages for the three more Scorpenes,'' he said.

The P-75I programme may also be expanded to include nine submarines, all equipped with both tube-launched missiles for land-attack capabilities as well as AIP, instead of the six planned for well over Rs 50,000 crore.

 

[JAISWAL]

NEW DELHI: Faced with a fast-depleting underwater combat arm even as both China and Pakistan bolster their fleets, India is looking at major rejig of its submarine production plans to ensure its operational readiness does not get further eroded in the coming years.

For starters, the case for equipping the last two of the six French Scorpene submarines being built at Mazagon Docks with the crucial air-independent propulsion systems is being "progressed'', say defence ministry sources.

The six diesel-electric Scorpenes are slated for delivery in the 2015-20 timeframe under the ongoing Rs 23,562-crore ($5 billion) 'Project-75', three years behind schedule. AIP (air-independent propulsion) in the fifth and sixth vessels, at a cost of an additional Rs 1,000 crore ($200 million) each, will give them a deadlier punch and stealth because they will be able to stay submerged much longer before surfacing to get oxygen to recharge their batteries.

India is likely to go in for three additional Scorpenes after the first six. "While no decision has yet been taken, it makes economic sense since six of them are being built at MDL. The second submarine workshop at MDL will get operational soon,'' said a source.

It will also be operationally expedient since, as was first reported by TOI earlier, the long-delayed follow-on 'Project-75India' to acquire six new-generation stealth submarines will take at least another two to three years to be finalized. It will take another seven years, if not more, after that for the first new submarine to roll out.

'Going in for three more Scorpenes is one way out of the logjam over P-75I, with Navy and MoD yet to agree on the shipyards to execute the project. The French companies will charge hefty amounts for the ToT (transfer of technology) packages for the three more Scorpenes,'' he said.

The P-75I programme may also be expanded to include nine submarines, all equipped with both tube-launched missiles for land-attack capabilities as well as AIP, instead of the six planned for well over Rs 50,000 crore ($10 billion).

With eye on China & Pak, India to revamp sub fleet - The Times of India

 

[noob101]

Brahmos is now like a gold standard for the Indian Navy, any major IN vessel will be designed with Brahmos in mind this is good for several reasons 1 it is the best cruise missile out there 2 any vessel with Brahmos can be retrofitted with Brahmos 2 without much of a problem.....

But here in lies the problem with the p75i Brahmos is a pretty large missile so the sub would have to be designed around it rather than having in fitted into a existing system, vertical launch would be ideal for the missile so the Amur would be the best choice.

 

[JAISWAL]

Type 216: for India's P-75I project

There had been reports from 2010 of IN officials in consultation with HDW guys on a larger type 214 with vertical missile bay as well as AIP and increased sea legs and endurance. It would seem that HDW has obliged with the new Type 216 design drawing from the 212/214 design. This design clearly outclasses anything else out there available for the IN at this stage. RUBIN and DCNS will have to do some major design work and bring out new designs to compete. This clearly explains the delay in RFP for P-75I (IN must have been waiting for the promised designs). This also explains the recent reports of increasing the scorpene numbers to 9 as a way of keeping the french happy and OUT of P-75I for good. It should now be a fight b/w S-80 and Type 216!

..........................................................

Description

The German shipyard HDW has released information about a proposed conventional propulsion long-range submarine project, called Type 216. Based on the Type 214, the Type 216 is designed specifically to meet the "larger conventional submarine" needs of countries like Australia, India and Canada.

Design

Double hull design.
Type 216 could be equipped with an air independent propulsion system, giving it the same kind of ability as a nuclear submarine: Staying underwater for weeks to reach crisis area, such as the Strait of Malacca. Like an SSN It would have the ability to launch cruise missiles, to deploy special forces with their underwater delivery vehicle and even unmanned underwater vehicles. The class is designed to be extremely quiet due to its propulsion system and through the use of sound absorbing coating on the hull.
Weapons

1. 6x 533 mm torpedo tubes (to deploy torpedoes, anti-ship missiles or mines)
2. Vertical Launch System (2.5 m diameter to deploy cruise missiles or UUV)
3. Swimmer Delivery Vehicle (SDV) to deploy special forces

Propulsion
Diesel / Electric. Optional air independent propulsion system.

Type
Conventional Submarine (SSK)
Crew
33 (extra accomodations for Special Forces)
Performance
Range: 10,400 nm @ 10 kts
Endurance: 80 days

Displacement
~4,000 tons
Engines
Diesel Electric with AIP
Dimensions
Length: 89 m
Breadth: 8.1 m
Maximum Draft: 6.6 m

The type U216 can also be fitted with the IDAS system and the TRIPLE-M/MURAENA system.

source: navyrecognition.com

..........................................................
.
.
Type 216 / U-216 Conventional Submarine SSK
.
.0

 

[nrj]

Brahmos is now like a gold standard for the Indian Navy, any major IN vessel will be designed with Brahmos in mind this is good for several reasons 1 it is the best cruise missile out there 2 any vessel with Brahmos can be retrofitted with Brahmos 2 without much of a problem.....

But here in lies the problem with the p75i Brahmos is a pretty large missile so the sub would have to be designed around it rather than having in fitted into a existing system, vertical launch would be ideal for the missile so the Amur would be the best choice.

Very true.

However as per some reports, IN wants to use torpedo tubes for Brahmos ejection instead of VLS. They want to utilize vertical launchers only to take out ASW aircraft especially in case of P75-I.

Brahmos corp is stubborn. They are pushing for VLS solution as Brahmos wont fit in tubes & are rejecting re-work on missile dimension.

This is a reason why detailed RFP is still not coming out of MoD & the obvious decisions are pending.

 

[Apollyon]

There had been reports from 2010 of IN officials in consultation with HDW guys on a larger type 214 with vertical missile bay as well as AIP and increased sea legs and endurance. It would seem that HDW has obliged with the new Type 216 design drawing from the 212/214 design. This design clearly outclasses anything else out there available for the IN at this stage. RUBIN and DCNS will have to do some major design work and bring out new designs to compete. This clearly explains the delay in RFP for P-75I (IN must have been waiting for the promised designs). This also explains the recent reports of increasing the scorpene numbers to 9 as a way of keeping the french happy and OUT of P-75I for good. It should now be a fight b/w S-80 and Type 216!

..........................................................

Description

The German shipyard HDW has released information about a proposed conventional propulsion long-range submarine project, called Type 216. Based on the Type 214, the Type 216 is designed specifically to meet the "larger conventional submarine" needs of countries like Australia, India and Canada.

Design

Double hull design.
Type 216 could be equipped with an air independent propulsion system, giving it the same kind of ability as a nuclear submarine: Staying underwater for weeks to reach crisis area, such as the Strait of Malacca. Like an SSN It would have the ability to launch cruise missiles, to deploy special forces with their underwater delivery vehicle and even unmanned underwater vehicles. The class is designed to be extremely quiet due to its propulsion system and through the use of sound absorbing coating on the hull.
Weapons

1. 6x 533 mm torpedo tubes (to deploy torpedoes, anti-ship missiles or mines)
2. Vertical Launch System (2.5 m diameter to deploy cruise missiles or UUV)
3. Swimmer Delivery Vehicle (SDV) to deploy special forces

Propulsion
Diesel / Electric. Optional air independent propulsion system.

Type
Conventional Submarine (SSK)
Crew
33 (extra accomodations for Special Forces)
Performance
Range: 10,400 nm @ 10 kts
Endurance: 80 days

Displacement
~4,000 tons
Engines
Diesel Electric with AIP
Dimensions
Length: 89 m
Breadth: 8.1 m
Maximum Draft: 6.6 m

The type U216 can also be fitted with the IDAS system and the TRIPLE-M/MURAENA system.

source: navyrecognition.com

..........................................................
.
.
Type 216 / U-216 Conventional Submarine SSK
.
.0

Still no 3 deck layout like U-212 but has an X-tail configuration.

 

[JAISWAL]

Germany developed a new generation of 216-type submarines
.
.
.
Germany developed a new generation of 216-type submarines can often away from the base of operations � Military of China, force comment.
.
According to the Russian military-industrial
complex site on November 1 report, recently
published "Jane's Navy World" published an
article, Horvath, Germany – German Shipbuilding
Co., Ltd. (HDW) is developing a new generation
of 216 conventional submarines. Information
about the new submarine is the first time in
September of this year out of the disclosure.
experts say, HDW 216 submarine's development
objective is to participate in the Australian
Department of Defense under the SEA 1000
program activities at the target. According to the
Australian government's plan, as in 2025 the
Navy purchased its 12 large conventional
submarines, of which six will be used to replace
the existing fleet of old-fashioned 'Collins'
submarines. Australian Navy's new submarine
made a very high performance requirements,
with special emphasis on the new boat should
have the waters away from the base of the ability
to perform combat missions. Analysts pointed
out that the Australian military requirements
implies a new submarine base should be able to
travel to China from Australian waters operational
requirements.
Jane's experts pointed out that 216-type
submarines, including a key component of the
joint, including methanol fuel cell power plant.
Only depend on the fuel cell, the new submarines
will be able to continue sailing four weeks
underwater with four speed or road 2400 sea
miles. In diesel engines, the submarine will be
able to continue sailing speed of 10 knots 10,400
sea miles. 216 submarine holding force up to 80
days. The lithium-ion polymer battery can further
enhance the submarine's speed and endurance.
In order to lithium batteries, the German side
may use a new type of high-power diesel
generators.
216 conventional submarines using double-shell
design, full load displacement of about 4,000
tons, the hull length 89 m, maximum diameter of
8.1 meters. Members of the rated load of the boat
33, in addition, the boat also set aside space for
the special unit. Taking into account may be used
to perform other transport tasks, 216 submarines
also made available a special compartment for the
storage of materials and equipment.
216 submarine of the main weapons, including
six 533 mm torpedo tubes (equipped with 18 fast
loading of the torpedoes, can be used to launch
anti-ship missiles or laying mines) and a diameter
of 2.5 m multi-purpose vertical launch system
(capable of firing cruise missiles). In addition, the
rear of the boat can also carry a miniature
underwater SDV conveyor. (Compass)
.
.
.
http://www.9abc.net/index.php/archives/68059

 

[Ray]

HDWs are noisy compared to Kockums of Sweden.

 

[noob101]

There had been reports from 2010 of IN officials in consultation with HDW guys on a larger type 214 with vertical missile bay as well as AIP and increased sea legs and endurance. It would seem that HDW has obliged with the new Type 216 design drawing from the 212/214 design. This design clearly outclasses anything else out there available for the IN at this stage. RUBIN and DCNS will have to do some major design work and bring out new designs to compete. This clearly explains the delay in RFP for P-75I (IN must have been waiting for the promised designs). This also explains the recent reports of increasing the scorpene numbers to 9 as a way of keeping the french happy and OUT of P-75I for good. It should now be a fight b/w S-80 and Type 216!

Still I think HDW should be polity refused because they sold 214 to Pakistan. These modifications might probably make it better than the Amur class but not so much so, this is a point where India should flex its economic muscles and silently reject the Germans implying that sure you can sell to the Pakis but you are going to loose out orders worth many times more.

IIRC Brahmos was to be tested from a IN kilo class sub but I dont know what came of that