Project-75I class SSK Submarines

[Adux]

Kunal,

We are spending nearly 2 billion a sub for a Scorpene improvement or U214, Our Scorpene's cost is 450 million a piece including ToT! is it really worth it?

 

[p2prada]

I am just giving you an example, that there exists big SSK's, that is all.
What is the major qualitative difference between Scorpene and U212A for us to spend $11 billion?

There are huge differences. The Type 212 is a much more advanced sub than Scorpene. Added features like Fuel cells etc help too. It is a lot quieter than most subs, obviously much more quieter than American SSNs.

 

[Adux]

There are huge differences. The Type 212 is a much more advanced sub than Scorpene. Added features like Fuel cells etc help too. It is a lot quieter than most subs, obviously much more quieter than American SSNs.

We are talking about 1.5 billion more per sub than a Scorpene? Seawolf Class Submarine cost less than 2 billion, 11 billion will get us two US Nuclear SuperCarrier and compliment air wing for one! is 212A (which is not for export)that much more advanced? AIP is available for Scorpene's too AM version. Heck the S-80 is better than U-214, it cost 650 million per sub! There is no huge difference in quality tactically, certainly not 1.5 billion more worth!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal,

We are spending nearly 2 billion a sub for a Scorpene improvement or U214, Our Scorpene's cost is 450 million a piece including ToT! is it really worth it?

Waste of Money, Time, Manpower, Project got stuck Gov solution is to pour more money..

IN operate KILO class its successor was offered by Russian ( Amur class ) & Also IN operate HDW 209 and its Successor was offered by Germans U214..
( TOT involve in both cases )

Now, we stuck with Scorpene Subs and we have to stuck with it until its over..

 

[sandeepdg]

akula is not an ssbn, it is an ssn.so it doesn't need slbm to fire.

Mate, actually SSN is not an weapons based classification. Americans maintain different classification of subs like SSNs and SSBNs, Russians don't at present, since they are short on nuke subs. SSN means that the sub is propelled by nuclear energy, its not a classification based of weapons capability on board. The American Seawolf, Virginia and Los Angeles class are categorized as nuclear attack submarines, their most potent weapon is Tomahawk block 3 having a range of 3100 kms, which is also nuclear capable. Whereas, the Los-Angeles class is called an SLBM platform carrying the Trident missiles having a range of 12000 kms. Whereas, the Russian Akula doubles up both as an attack submarine and as an SLBM carrier, but since Russia does not have an active SLBM currently after they retired the R-39 SLBMs, and the Bulava is still under testing phase, hence the Akula's in Russian navy carry a weapons load of 28 nuclear capable cruise missiles having a range of 3000 kms. Once they have the Borei and Yasen class becomes operational, then Russia will again have two different types of nuke subs, the Yasen class as nuclear attack subs and the Borei class as the SLBM carrier with a payload of Bulava SLBMs.

 

[Adux]

Basic understanding of what one is talking is expected in such a forum as this. People here are making new abbreviations and qualities for submarines, even their makers dont know off? Carrying Tomahawak makes them SSBN? It is laughable the person who tries to talk with authoritarian tone, has no idea the difference between a SSN,SSGN and SSBN. There is no difference between Russian and American classification on Submarines. Idiotic to say the least. Seawolf, Virginia and Los Angeles are all SSN's, B.Franklin and Ohio Class are all SSBN's. There is a difference between SSN's and SSBN/SSGN, It is called Missile Silos. The difference between Missile Silos of SSGN and SSBN, is the dimension and nature of the difference between Cruise Missile and Ballistic Missile.
People should use Google, before they spout idiotic garbage wasting bandwidth

 

[ajay_ijn]

i am not sure if this has been discussed before in this thread.
if India can come up with an ATV- nuclear submarine.
why it cannot design and build an conventional submarine.
if Russia assisted us with design of ATV, then let them continue to help us with basic design, propulsion, crew, weapon subsystems.

guessing that it will be feasible to locally produce submarine related systems.

It can be something like Shivalik P-17 class or P-15A class destroyers.

 

[ajay_ijn]

Mate, actually SSN is not an weapons based classification. Americans maintain different classification of subs like SSNs and SSBNs, Russians don't at present, since they are short on nuke subs. SSN means that the sub is propelled by nuclear energy, its not a classification based of weapons capability on board. The American Seawolf, Virginia and Los Angeles class are categorized as nuclear attack submarines, their most potent weapon is Tomahawk block 3 having a range of 3100 kms, which is also nuclear capable. Whereas, the Los-Angeles class is called an SLBM platform carrying the Trident missiles having a range of 12000 kms. Whereas, the Russian Akula doubles up both as an attack submarine and as an SLBM carrier, but since Russia does not have an active SLBM currently after they retired the R-39 SLBMs, and the Bulava is still under testing phase, hence the Akula's in Russian navy carry a weapons load of 28 nuclear capable cruise missiles having a range of 3000 kms. Once they have the Borei and Yasen class becomes operational, then Russia will again have two different types of nuke subs, the Yasen class as nuclear attack subs and the Borei class as the SLBM carrier with a payload of Bulava SLBMs.

Russia has all three kinds of nuclear submarines. Russia has operational SLBM -R-29.
Los Angeles is not an SSBN.

 

[Adux]

Russia has all three kinds of nuclear submarines. Russia has operational SLBM -R-29.
Los Angeles is not an SSBN.

Who cares about those active Delta IV's and Typhoon Class, internet freedom allows you to have post completely ridiculous idiotism for others to read, even if they dont want to.

 

[ajay_ijn]

We are talking about 1.5 billion more per sub than a Scorpene? Seawolf Class Submarine cost less than 2 billion, 11 billion will get us two US Nuclear SuperCarrier and compliment air wing for one! is 212A (which is not for export)that much more advanced? AIP is available for Scorpene's too AM version. Heck the S-80 is better than U-214, it cost 650 million per sub! There is no huge difference in quality tactically, certainly not 1.5 billion more worth!

Spending two billion per sub is meaningless i guess. Someone got the figures wrong. anything much beyond 500 million is too costly for a conventional sub.


Can these SSKs provide effective escort to main fleet lead by Carriers, will it be any better in dealing with enemy submarines than Frigate/Destroyer. any other surface targets can be easily handled by destroyers/frigates.
what role does IN really envisage for these SSKs?, i mean its not about getting best sub in the market but what really IN wants.

i guess SSKs effectiveness will be during the time they hunt alone, not going with the main fleet. The only good scenario i can think of is IN can use them blocking ports, sea denial.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Tuesday, February 22, 2011

RFP For AIP In P-75 (I) To Go Out In A Year


The Indian Navy will soon float a tender for the air independant propulsion (AIP) technology to be integrated in the follow-on order of the six Scorpene-class submarines, P-75 (I), which were cleared recently by the Government.

Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Nirmal Verma has said that, the DRDO was testing the the land-based prototype of the indigenous AIP, and that the French were offering Mesma, but the Navy was interested in the fuel-cell technology.

The AIP will be integrated from the first submarine, in P-75(I). The subs will be a different boat altogether, though the basic platform would be the same, but it will have better sensors, combat management system, better detection, and that the Indian Navy was also trying for an indigenous torpedo.

The Navy has sent out the Request For Information (RFI) for the same and hopes to float the tender this year, after revising the Naval Staff Qualitative Requirements (NSQRs).

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2011/02/rfp-for-aip-in-p-75-i-to-go-out-in-year.html




More Delays!
I guess Germans are the only one with Fuel cell AIP..

 

[Adux]

Fuel Cell Technology doesnt cost $11 billion dollars for 6 Submarines. This is daylight robbery; if it is for just 6 U214, There better be 18 Submarines, 9 billion dollars for that, another 2 billion odd for training and ToT.

 

[natarajan]

another huge scam on the row like 2g,isro

 

[sandeepdg]

Russia has all three kinds of nuclear submarines. Russia has operational SLBM -R-29.
Los Angeles is not an SSBN

Sorry, mate. I meant the Ohio class SSBN when I was quoting about the Trident missiles. Russia doesn't categorize its subs as SSGNs, they are done by Western observers only, even though their subs carry the nuclear capable Viyuga cruise missiles and the R-29 SLBMs, which will be replaced by the Bulava.

 

[sandeepdg]

Basic understanding of what one is talking is expected in such a forum as this. People here are making new abbreviations and qualities for submarines, even their makers dont know off? Carrying Tomahawak makes them SSBN? It is laughable the person who tries to talk with authoritarian tone, has no idea the difference between a SSN,SSGN and SSBN. There is no difference between Russian and American classification on Submarines. Idiotic to say the least. Seawolf, Virginia and Los Angeles are all SSN's, B.Franklin and Ohio Class are all SSBN's. There is a difference between SSN's and SSBN/SSGN, It is called Missile Silos. The difference between Missile Silos of SSGN and SSBN, is the dimension and nature of the difference between Cruise Missile and Ballistic Missile.
People should use Google, before they spout idiotic garbage wasting bandwidth

Yeah, Mr. Smartass, it seems your basic understanding is absolute trash from what you posted. I will quote you

Carrying Tomahawak makes them SSBN? It is laughable the person who tries to talk with authoritarian tone, has no idea the difference between a SSN,SSGN and SSBN.

I wrote "The American Seawolf, Virginia and Los Angeles class are categorized as nuclear attack submarines, their most potent weapon is Tomahawk block 3 having a range of 3100 kms, which is also nuclear capable" The Tomahawks these three classes carry in their armory are conventional, not nuclear. And, I know the ones carrying the nuclear armed Tomahawks are designated as SSGN, and only the 4 of the Ohio class subs carry the nuke capable Tomahawks and are designated as SSGNs. Nowhere, did I say that carrying the Tomahawk makes them SSBNs. Read properly before you post your trash !

There is no difference between Russian and American classification on Submarines. Idiotic to say the least.

On the contrary to your stupid response, there's actually quite some difference between submarine classifications between the US, UK, France and Russia. US and UK use the same terminology, whereas Russia and France have their own classifications.

United States
SSBN is the United States Navy's hull classification symbol for a nuclear-powered, ballistic nuclear missile-carrying submarine.[1] The SS denotes a "submersible ship", the B denotes "ballistic missile," and the N denotes "nuclear powered." In US naval slang, ballistic missile submarines are called "boomers". They operate on a "Gold" and "Blue" two-crew concept. The current fleet of ballistic missile submarines in the United States Navy consists of Ohio class submarines.

United Kingdom
In Britain, they are also known as SSBNs. Ballistic missile submarines are referred to as "bombers". The two crews are called "port" and "starboard" crew.

France
The French Navy commissioned her first ballistic missile submarines as SNLE, for Sous-marin Nucléaire Lanceur d'Engin (lit. "nuclear-powered device-launching submarines"). The term applies both to ballistic missile submarines in general (for instance "British SNLE" occurs [2]) and, more technically, as a specific classification of the Redoutable class. The more recent Triomphant class is referred to as SNLE-NG (Nouvelle Génération, "New Generation").
The two crews used to maximise the availability time of the ships are called 'blue' and 'red' crews.

Soviet Union
The Soviets called this type of ship RPKSN - РПКСН Ракетный подводный крейсер стратегического назначения (Raketny Podvodnyy Kreiser Strategicheskogo Naznacheniya) which can be translated as Strategic Purpose Missile Cruiser Submarine, this designation was applied to the Typhoon class. Another designation used was PLARB ( «ПЛАРБ» - подводная лодка атомная с баллистическими ракетами) which is translated as Nuclear Submarine with Ballistic Missiles, this was applied to smaller submarines such as the Delta Class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSBN#Terminology

Other than Google, its suggested for fools like you to go through Wikipedia. It will go a long way in developing basic understanding in than freaking, ranting-obsessed mind of yours. And don't worry about the bandwidth, leave that to the mods. They are much smarter than you.

 

[Adux]

^You are worth your weight in gold, face palm....Common Sense and English Comprehension be damned!

 

[sandeepdg]

^ Same feelings here too, pal. I am done with your cheap comments. I am not taking this bullshit any further. I will concentrate on posting relevant stuff on this thread, and stick to them.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Hunter Killer SSN: Type - 209
Non-nuclear cruise missile submarine were designated SSG: KILO & Scorpène..
SSBN is the for a nuclear-powered, ballistic nuclear missile-carrying submarine: Arihant
nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine SSGN : Akula..

 

[Adux]

Hunter Killer SSN: Type - 209
Non-nuclear cruise missile submarine were designated SSG: KILO & Scorpène..
SSBN is the for a nuclear-powered, ballistic nuclear missile-carrying submarine: Arihant
nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine SSGN : Akula..

Exactly, if you read his initial post, it is laughable at best. Ballisitic Missile Submarine is the same in very country, except it is called in their own language, but ultimately nobody calls SSN , a ballistic missile submarine , just because they carry a nuclear missiles or nuclear propulsion; unlike in the classification of frigates and destroyers etc in different countries

 

[Zebra]

Hi,
What about GOTLAND . Little ones but true killer.