P-18/Next Generation Destroyer class (NGD)

swapcv

New Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2014
Messages
226
Likes
971
Country flag


Btw, has anyone considered this design, I especially liked the layout of it's secondary armament, formidable for CIWS work however the lack of any autocannons or a system like the SEARAM is worrisome. For those unfamiliar with this, it's the preliminary render of the upcoming replacement to the Italian version of the Horizon class DDG. Will be contemporary of our P-18 class DDG
 

Maharaj samudragupt

Kritant Parashu
Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
7,650
Likes
21,952
Country flag
A too heavy and big destroyer is simply a battlecruiser. If Project-18 are really 13000-14000 tonnes as being projected, then they too.
Yamato was 72000 tonnes, I know this analogy is idiotic but what i think of the cruiser and what it today means is vastly different.
Navy as well delve into kirov like ships .
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
New Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
7,365
Likes
27,771
Country flag


Btw, has anyone considered this design, I especially liked the layout of it's secondary armament, formidable for CIWS work however the lack of any autocannons or a system like the SEARAM is worrisome. For those unfamiliar with this, it's the preliminary render of the upcoming replacement to the Italian version of the Horizon class DDG. Will be contemporary of our P-18 class DDG
Armament ?

If navy is looking for something heavy , it will be used with carrier battlegroup , it should have 100 or so vls with dew and all
 

swapcv

New Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2014
Messages
226
Likes
971
Country flag
Armament ?

If navy is looking for something heavy , it will be used with carrier battlegroup , it should have 100 or so vls with dew and all
48-64 VLS for now with Asters (one per cell) or Sea Ceptors (in quadpacking), 8-16 OTOMAT Teseo Mk2 Evolved Anti-Ship missile but also with Land attack capability, one OTO Melara 127mm/64 Main gun at the bow, 4 OTO Melara Sovraponte 76mm CIWS for now. They intend to have 2 ships at the minimum with one each assigned to the two Italian Carrier Battle Groups that will be formed around ITS Cavour and ITS Trieste respectively. 2 more maybe considered to replace the Horizons as well.
 

Willy3

New Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
1,463
Likes
4,470
Country flag
Developing project 15C with 8000-8500 tonne displacement with recently proposed Rolls-Royces engine with like 40 MW power will be good for future railgun and DEW integration.

Just kept Ukrainian out of the process , both kolkata and Vizag get delayed due to their sheddy delivery processes.
 

Willy3

New Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
1,463
Likes
4,470
Country flag
The concept of 12000&13000 tonne ship is simply offensive.
They want something to protect their precious carriers and some kind of landing platform away from its own land from where they can bombazzeled the enemy country with 60+ land attack missiles.

I am sure, just like 3rd carrier, Navy will again put this in cold storage .
 

scatterStorm

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
2,243
Likes
5,360
Country flag
There are couple of things the navy should have atleast considered these, hopefully:

1. Auxiliary failover powerplant with gas-turbine and a diesel-electric powerplant.
2. Provision for 115 VLS tubes along with very long range Brahmos, much like what Moskava class destroyer has, along with Long range SAM.
3. Provision for DEWs.

These are necessary to tackle the Type-55 and Type-56 Chinese destroyers.
 

swapcv

New Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2014
Messages
226
Likes
971
Country flag
There are couple of things the navy should have atleast considered these, hopefully:

1. Auxiliary failover powerplant with gas-turbine and a diesel-electric powerplant.
2. Provision for 115 VLS tubes along with very long range Brahmos, much like what Moskava class destroyer has, along with Long range SAM.
3. Provision for DEWs.

These are necessary to tackle the Type-55 and Type-56 Chinese destroyers.
Another philosophy to tackle the Chinese is to not imitate them at all and build just large number of functional, affordable escorts and surface warships which can perform a wide spectrum of missions. I believe we can indulge in that naval aggrandizing when our Economy is more larger than today. Ultimately what eventually dooms an emergent power is just one arms race trapping us in a self-fulfilling financial drain. While it may surprise many as to how the PLAN manages to maintain such a punishing Shipbuilding schedule, I am inclined to believe that 20-30 years down the line they'd be glad to cut down their fleet numbers just to keep the budget from busting the ceiling. It's pretty much what the current US Navy is sorely facing.
 

scatterStorm

New Member
Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
2,243
Likes
5,360
Country flag
Another philosophy to tackle the Chinese is to not imitate them at all and build just large number of functional, affordable escorts and surface warships which can perform a wide spectrum of missions. I believe we can indulge in that naval aggrandizing when our Economy is more larger than today. Ultimately what eventually dooms an emergent power is just one arms race trapping us in a self-fulfilling financial drain. While it may surprise many as to how the PLAN manages to maintain such a punishing Shipbuilding schedule, I am inclined to believe that 20-30 years down the line they'd be glad to cut down their fleet numbers just to keep the budget from busting the ceiling. It's pretty much what the current US Navy is sorely facing.
I think I know what you are trying to say. Agreed, playing "keeping with jones" with the Chinese would simply be an economical problem for us. We can take examples such as Iran. What Iran is doing is building cheap fast and very large number of missile boats equipped with harpoons based missiles.

You can certainly see the carrier battle group would have real trouble docking there.
 

KurtisBrian

New Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2021
Messages
1,255
Likes
1,771
Country flag
The concept of 12000&13000 tonne ship is simply offensive.
They want something to protect their precious carriers and some kind of landing platform away from its own land from where they can bombazzeled the enemy country with 60+ land attack missiles.

I am sure, just like 3rd carrier, Navy will again put this in cold storage .
Bigger more robust warships might not sink after colliding with freighters. Might be able to push the smaller vessels of weaker navies aside and non violently secure areas.

Think they won't build it? Maybe not but as the global personal consumer economy falters and dies the military war economy moves in to pick up the slack. Result we see lots of weapon being purchased. We see the warships of many navies increasing 2x in size and the number of vessels rapidly increasing.
Trying to ensure there still is an economy and jobs.
 
Last edited:

swapcv

New Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2014
Messages
226
Likes
971
Country flag
I think I know what you are trying to say. Agreed, playing "keeping with jones" with the Chinese would simply be an economical problem for us. We can take examples such as Iran. What Iran is doing is building cheap fast and very large number of missile boats equipped with harpoons based missiles.

You can certainly see the carrier battle group would have real trouble docking there.
One advantage we have is that unlike the Chinese who are already well underway into their transformation to a Blue Water Navy, we can wait and watch and learn lessons from mistakes done by both the PLAN and the USN in expansion of capabilities. Also in case of a shooting War, one must realize that the Chinese aren't going to have a field day anywhere as they have to contend with a whole gaggle of neighbouring Navies who can definitely deter the main body of Chinese fleet from projecting into the Indian Ocean. Thus, we can customize our forthcoming expansion taking into account the lessons and strategic considerations and by focusing on systems that really do matter than those that are simply just a symbol of Maritime power. Eventually everything will boil down to the classic A2/AD Doctrine.
 

Haldilal

लड़ते लड़ते जीना है, लड़ते लड़ते मरना है
New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
30,041
Likes
115,410
Country flag
-.-- .- .----. .-.. .-.. / -. .. -... -... .. .- .-. ... / .... .- ...- . / - --- / .- .-.. ... --- / -.-. --- -. ... .. -.. . .-. / - .... . / - -.-- .--. . . / ..... ..... .- / -.-. .-.. .- ... ... / -.-. .-. ..- .. ... . .-. . .-.-.-
 

swapcv

New Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2014
Messages
226
Likes
971
Country flag
-.-- .- .----. .-.. .-.. / -. .. -... -... .. .- .-. ... / .... .- ...- . / - --- / .- .-.. ... --- / -.-. --- -. ... .. -.. . .-. / - .... . / - -.-- .--. . . / ..... ..... .- / -.-. .-.. .- ... ... / -.-. .-. ..- .. ... . .-. . .-.-.-
It's just a floating target ripe for a Hypersonic SSM if one were to put it through the lens of a SSM Fanatic, but jokes apart, I find it's appearance on the scene to be overrated. Nobody broke a sweat when the Tico's came about, nobody broke a sweat when the Koreans jumboized their version of the Arleigh Burkes for the Sejong's. So I don't think we need to worry too much about the Type 55's as in due course of time they'll become the norm and not the exception which everyone thinks they are.
 

Maharaj samudragupt

Kritant Parashu
Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
7,650
Likes
21,952
Country flag
-.-- .- .----. .-.. .-.. / -. .. -... -... .. .- .-. ... / .... .- ...- . / - --- / .- .-.. ... --- / -.-. --- -. ... .. -.. . .-. / - .... . / - -.-- .--. . . / ..... ..... .- / -.-. .-.. .- ... ... / -.-. .-. ..- .. ... . .-. . .-.-.-
Is this some code ?
 

Gessler

New Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
2,312
Likes
11,249
Country flag
Nibbas, given our budget constraints and dwindling destroyer fleet, it would be ideal to build 5-7 more hulls under Project 15C, with a more streamlined hull, LANZA 3D air search radar.
It should not cost more than $7-8 billion and would give the Indian Navy a fleet of 12-15 modern stealth destroyers.
If NGD indeed turns out to be AAW-focused, then the plan will be to have at least 1 available at all times for each carrier battle group.

This is good because it frees up the P-15A/B DDGs from that role and lets them focus on surface warfare against PLAN/PN.
 

KurtisBrian

New Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2021
Messages
1,255
Likes
1,771
Country flag
One advantage we have is that unlike the Chinese who are already well underway into their transformation to a Blue Water Navy, we can wait and watch and learn lessons from mistakes done by both the PLAN and the USN in expansion of capabilities. Also in case of a shooting War, one must realize that the Chinese aren't going to have a field day anywhere as they have to contend with a whole gaggle of neighbouring Navies who can definitely deter the main body of Chinese fleet from projecting into the Indian Ocean. Thus, we can customize our forthcoming expansion taking into account the lessons and strategic considerations and by focusing on systems that really do matter than those that are simply just a symbol of Maritime power. Eventually everything will boil down to the classic A2/AD Doctrine.
If a war turns hot won't ballistic missiles (can be non nuclear) be used upon military shipyards? In WW2 factories and shipyards were bombed. So likely those with long range BM will use them upon shipyards and weapons factories. Thanks to those BM, once the war begins there won't be mass production like there was in WW2. Everything is always in bombing range.
For the most part, everyone will only have what they start with.
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
New Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
7,365
Likes
27,771
Country flag
If a war turns hot won't ballistic missiles (can be non nuclear) be used upon military shipyards? In WW2 factories and shipyards were bombed. So likely those with long range BM will use them upon shipyards and weapons factories. Thanks to those BM, once the war begins there won't be mass production like there was in WW2. Everything is always in bombing range.
For the most part, everyone will only have what they start with.
But a war with ballistic missile is unlikely , china will do it ,only in case it see us extremely weak , if china senses any possible loss they not gonna fught a full scale war .

And if they go in full battle mode , what would stop us from giving them as much damage as we can ,and what will stop it's neighborhood to take advantage of opportunity and hit them in their home , US won't leave a golden chance to royally fuck china .

And mass production is never a possibility un modern times , ww was a different time , production now is much more complicated and expensive , also at that time all major economy were fighting , no major economy would like to go in a Savage war
 

Articles

Top