MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

[arps]

Investing US planes we need to reinvent the infrastructural and logistic in place.The plane are less rugged plus with their ever long list of MOU to sign India should beware of US intentions we pay cash for that its not aid so why so many strings?
Compare the Rafale,Ef-2000 and the Teen series its obvious we are getting better TOT from EU planemakers.

Evrybody will give the TOT in the same level as IAF mentioned. Apart from that others will give TOT with hefty money attached. I dont think its worth to get a 4.5 gen fighter TOT with that money.What we need build the best fighters as fast as possible.I would like to get the best RADAR even if I get less TOT than a inferior RADAR.We can anytime ask the actual manufacturer for integrating new generation missiles.

 

[luckyy]

Evrybody will give the TOT in the same level as IAF mentioned. Apart from that others will give TOT with hefty money attached. I dont think its worth to get a 4.5 gen fighter TOT with that money.What we need build the best fighters as fast as possible.I would like to get the best RADAR even if I get less TOT than a inferior RADAR.We can anytime ask the actual manufacturer for integrating new generation missiles.

don't think only US make better systems...
Isreal using their own radar on F-16 .........

even resently india prefer buying a Iseali radar over amarican..
http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/07/dna-xclusive-raytheon-complains-to.html

" Elta has made modifications in aircraft in the past to integrate systems, and having demonstrated their capability successfully, they are quite capable of doing it now also as per the requirements, plus their pricing is almost half of Raytheon."

and why there is so much noise generated about that active scan radar........in next 5 years everyone going to get that , ...., russian has it , india co-developing it with eads/elta , french working on it , saab working on it , eads working on it....






http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/07/dna-xclusive-raytheon-complains-to.html

 

[arps]

don't think only US make better systems...
Isreal using their own radar on F-16 .........

even resently india prefer buying a Iseali radar over amarican..
http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/07/dna-xclusive-raytheon-complains-to.html

" Elta has made modifications in aircraft in the past to integrate systems, and having demonstrated their capability successfully, they are quite capable of doing it now also as per the requirements, plus their pricing is almost half of Raytheon."

and why there is so much noise generated about that active scan radar........in next 5 years everyone going to get that , ...., russian has it , india co-developing it with eads/elta , french working on it , saab working on it , eads working on it....






http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/07/dna-xclusive-raytheon-complains-to.html

Isealis are masters in avoinics and radar.But sadly they coudn't make the EASA RADAR,which F18SH uses.Its one of the best. There r lots of difference being the ist time creator of an EASA and some one having played it for 15 years.Its something like PAKISTHAN will make a satellite launch vehicle and will say that we are equal to ISRO now.

 

[luckyy]

Isealis are masters in avoinics and radar.But sadly they coudn't make the EASA RADAR,which F18SH uses.Its one of the best. There r lots of difference being the ist time creator of an EASA and some one having played it for 15 years.Its something like PAKISTHAN will make a satellite launch vehicle and will say that we are equal to ISRO now.

IAF won't be buying a aircraft just because it has AESA radar which anyhow drdo will be co- developing in coming years.....

and you couldn't compare EADS , ELTA , FRENCH , SAAB , DRDO with pakistan....they are in this feild for ages...

 

[arps]

IAF won't be buying a aircraft just because it has AESA radar which anyhow drdo will be co- developing in coming years.....

and you couldn't compare EADS , ELTA , FRENCH , SAAB , DRDO with pakistan....they are in this feild for ages...

Radar is the brain.Anyway u can think like this.. u will not get all the best(or among the best) products from one country except USA.And u ppl r talking about money.Then u should in the ist place discard Rafale and erofighter.Apart from fighters and costlier weapons their companies come with unreliable delivery track records.

 

[luckyy]

Radar is the brain.Anyway u can think like this.. u will not get all the best(or among the best) products from one country except USA.And u ppl r talking about money.Then u should in the ist place discard Rafale and erofighter.Apart from fighters and costlier weapons their companies come with unreliable delivery track records.

we can discard rafale , all right....

but package that eurofighter offering is unmatched....

can your F-18 even came close to eurofighter package...?

both eurofighter and F-18 cost same...

 

[arps]

we can discard rafale , all right....

but package that eurofighter offering is unmatched....

can your F-18 even came close to eurofighter package...?

both eurofighter and F-18 cost same...

Oh ..plz u need to know a lot buddy. Even if u leave aside cost factor :
1. eurofighter is the LEAST MATURE A2G fighter among all.
2.Eurofighter is the best in defensive operation.manily for A2A.We have MKI and will have PAKFA for that.
3.F18SH is the strongest in strike role availabe in the world.India desperately need good strike fighter.
4.In future we need get F18G for neutralizing all the SAMs and radars and jamming networks.

 

[luckyy]

Oh ..plz u need to know a lot buddy. Even if u leave aside cost factor :
1. eurofighter is the LEAST MATURE A2G fighter among all.
2.Eurofighter is the best in defensive operation.manily for A2A.We have MKI and will have PAKFA for that.
3.F18SH is the strongest in strike role availabe in the world.India desperately need good strike fighter.
4.In future we need get F18G for neutralizing all the SAMs and radars and jamming networks.

Oh ..plz u need to know a lot buddy. Even if u leave aside cost factor :
1) F-18 is the LEAST MATURE A2A fighter among all.
2) F-18 is the best in offensive operation.manily for A2G , but to reach to the ground strick mission distination , F-18 need to counter pakistan's F-16 and chines SU-30MKK...
3)Eurofighter is presently the best air dominent fighter among mmrca , and soon in T3 stage of the development it will be
as leathel in A2G mode too.....( you can convert a fighter into a bomber but not a bomber into a fighter)

but fect of the matter is, the package that eurofighter offering is unmatched....can your F-18 even came close to eurofighter package...? when both eurofighter and F-18 cost same...

 

[arps]

Oh ..plz u need to know a lot buddy. Even if u leave aside cost factor :
1) F-18 is the LEAST MATURE A2A fighter among all.
2) F-18 is the best in offensive operation.manily for A2G , but to reach to the ground strick mission distination , F-18 need to counter pakistan's F-16 and chines SU-30MKK...
3)Eurofighter is presently the best air dominent fighter among mmrca , and soon in T3 stage of the development it will be
as leathel in A2G mode too.....( you can convert a fighter into a bomber but not a bomber into a fighter)

but fect of the matter is, the package that eurofighter offering is unmatched....can your F-18 even came close to eurofighter package...? when both eurofighter and F-18 cost same...

ha ha..ok I think IAF wants mainly strike fighter.And by this logic F35 also cant enter in pak airspace..How fool US air force or navy..
1)&2) It has the best brain(Radar) and among the best electronics much better than anything pak or china has or will have in near future.And one of the least RCS.
3) I agree.But We really dont need another redundant air dominance fighter.Having getting the A2G capability just now and playing around it for decades has much difference.And last I heard eurofighter will have operational easa @2015.hmmm..

 

[luckyy]

ha ha..ok I think IAF wants mainly strike fighter.And by this logic F35 also cant enter in pak airspace..How fool US air force or navy..
1)&2) It has the best brain(Radar) and among the best electronics much better than anything pak or china has or will have in near future.And one of the least RCS.
3) I agree.But We really dont need another redundant air dominance fighter.Having getting the A2G capability just now and playing around it for decades has much difference.And last I heard eurofighter will have operational easa @2015.hmmm..

IAF wants mainly a multi role fighter which can gets inside the enemy space , counter the opponent fighters , defeat them , strick the distnation , collect information of the area take pictures and came back flying......

F-35 have advantage of it's stealth features to go untracted inside enamy space..but no point discussing F-35 , it's not a contender in mmrca..

1) the latest delivered 52 block F-16 to pakistan does have the AESA radar onboard , and existing F-16 will be having this radar after upgrade ......and in future pakistan can pay for expansive upgrades though AID money...IAF might find it expansive.....
2) didn't mater if eurofighter will have operational easa @2015....anyhow IAF would be get it's first squadren of mmrca around that time only...

coming to cost :

i find there is two cost catagories in mmrca..
1) 100ml catagory : rafale , eurofighter , f-18 , f-16..
2) 50ml catagory : mig-35 , gripen..

among the 100ml catagory , eurofighter offereings are unmatched..
among 50ml catagory , mig-35 offers the cheapest option to fill the gap of decreasing strengh on outgoing mig-21 and incoming FGFA...

 

[Yusuf]

Lucky, APG 68 on the block 52 is not an AESA. Pakistan does not have an AESA F16.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Lucky, APG 68 on the block 52 is not an AESA. Pakistan does not have an AESA F16.

Aesa is available only on F-16 block 60 along with supercruise feature.

 

[luckyy]

Lucky, APG 68 on the block 52 is not an AESA. Pakistan does not have an AESA F16.

thanks for clerification , infect it is the APG-63 , which is a AESA on F-15 E.. my mistake..i thought APG-68 is advance version of APG-63..

 

[arps]

IAF wants mainly a multi role fighter which can gets inside the enemy space , counter the opponent fighters , defeat them , strick the distnation , collect information of the area take pictures and came back flying......

F-35 have advantage of it's stealth features to go untracted inside enamy space..but no point discussing F-35 , it's not a contender in mmrca..

1) the latest delivered 52 block F-16 to pakistan does have the AESA radar onboard , and existing F-16 will be having this radar after upgrade ......and in future pakistan can pay for expansive upgrades though AID money...IAF might find it expansive.....
2) didn't mater if eurofighter will have operational easa @2015....anyhow IAF would be get it's first squadren of mmrca around that time only...

coming to cost :

i find there is two cost catagories in mmrca..
1) 100ml catagory : rafale , eurofighter , f-18 , f-16..
2) 50ml catagory : mig-35 , gripen..

among the 100ml catagory , eurofighter offereings are unmatched..
among 50ml catagory , mig-35 offers the cheapest option to fill the gap of decreasing strengh on outgoing mig-21 and incoming FGFA...

If u look into my point (1), I have told why it is very strong A2A fighter and can neutralize anything PAK OR CHINA have.
we can see F18SH is one of the best multi role fighter.I would love Eurofighter in IAF anyday having already that strong A2A.But our main stress is for strike role and that also includes all that u mentioned.But sadly eurofighter will take much time to get mature overall. And even europians also dont want to invest much now.They like it to be for optimum A2A and limited A2G.And for A2G they r getting F35.And we have PAKFA coming for optimum A2A role.

 

[Yusuf]

Even the 63 is not an AESA. APG 79 on the SH is AESA.

 

[luckyy]

Even the 63 is not an AESA. APG 79 on the SH is AESA.

come on yaar , APG-63(V)2 fitted on F-15E is an AESA ...pakistan getting APG-68(V)9....that was the whole confussion..

 

[Yusuf]

I think the APG63 V4 being used in the F-15 has been upgraded and now called the APG 82.

 

[JBH22]

Evrybody will give the TOT in the same level as IAF mentioned. Apart from that others will give TOT with hefty money attached. I dont think its worth to get a 4.5 gen fighter TOT with that money.What we need build the best fighters as fast as possible.I would like to get the best RADAR even if I get less TOT than a inferior RADAR.We can anytime ask the actual manufacturer for integrating new generation missiles.

You need a plane that is able to first fly in Indian harsh conditions AFAIk many fail the leh trial only 2 suceeded i think its the MIG-35 and Rafale cleared that because of their predecessors have flown there during Kargil. So what's the use of an AESA radar if the plane cannot get there?
We need something rugged,not extremely expensive to maintain and with good A2G capabilities something to augment or complement the exisiting Mig-27,Jaguar and Mirage-2000.So all the chills and frills will be useful only if your plane can fly in these harsh INDIAN mountainous regions otherwise its a white elephant.

 

[Param]

I wonder how good f18s or f16s would be in our airforce if we do not sign the cismoa ? We did not agree to that for a few transport planes let alone 126 mmrca. How much would that have an impact?

 

[arps]

You need a plane that is able to first fly in Indian harsh conditions AFAIk many fail the leh trial only 2 suceeded i think its the MIG-35 and Rafale cleared that because of their predecessors have flown there during Kargil. So what's the use of an AESA radar if the plane cannot get there?
We need something rugged,not extremely expensive to maintain and with good A2G capabilities something to augment or complement the exisiting Mig-27,Jaguar and Mirage-2000.So all the chills and frills will be useful only if your plane can fly in these harsh INDIAN mountainous regions otherwise its a white elephant.

If u trust on the reporter about this report(he didnt name any).He himself told that IAF didnt bother that much.Now think why..If u think about cost, u should ist discard Rafale and erofighter.If u say the best replacement of mig-27,jaguar and Mirage and then why not the best strike fighter(F18SH) available now with lesser cost than Rafale and erofighter with reliable timely delivery with cheaper but better performing weapons.Oh add F18G also in future.umm..