MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

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jayz india

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and i thought ajay shukla was smart...he very well knows abt the current situation in the IAF dwindling squadron numbers wont jst be replaced by f35's..we r already planning to have atleast 2 different fifth generation fighters(FGFA and AMCA) is he suggesting that we should go for another one??? even though we r still flying 3rd generation fighters,no matter what happens wars in the next 50 years in the world will see exceptional use of 4th generation fighters,i was even saying abt we should go for the single engined fighters for mrca which means more numbers,if we dont go for single engined aircraft we should atleast mass produce lca's atleast 400 of them it would be great if we can have an air force of 55 squadrons to fight a two front war
 

Rahul Singh

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Its a kind appeal to all posters, please don't use words like American Agent or Lobbyist or anything insulting which doubts Sri Ajai Shukla's patriotism. I don't know about others but i can -- depending on my (all most)three year experience on BROASWORD -- say that he is very much patriot as well as one of very few journalist who not only knows importance of indigenisation but has also written articles on "why AMCA is needed". In sum i am not requesting to stop criticizing this very article, this article deserves criticism and i myself have done it. All i am requesting is to discontinue use of derogatory words. Thank You.
 
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Neil

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Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II in trouble

Problems in the development of F-35 stealth fighter have raised fresh questions from Canada and many other countries. Technical glitches, high cost per unit and postponed production continue to cause problem for fighter program which is a joint venture between the United States and many countries including Canada Israel and Australia.

Recent software problem with fuel pump grounded all the 13 test units for some time. Norway pushed the year of purchase from 2016 to 2018 and there are uncertainties regarding the program in the Netherland's coalition government. Delay in the European F-35 will effect economies in large scale and hence cost of each F-35 unit will increase.

Defence Minister of Canada Peter MacKay said the accounting problem is a "technical issue" between the Pentagon and Lockheed Martin.

"We welcome the diligence, in fact, that is being exercised on the project. All the allies, including Canada, will benefit from this type of strong oversight', he said.

"It's not expected to have any impact on the cost for Canada, nor the delivered schedule of the 65 F-35 aircraft," he said.

Concerns about the F-35"²s performance have resulted partially from reports of simulations by RAND Corporation in which numerous Russian Sukhoi fighters defeat a handful of F-35s by denying tanker refueling. As a result of these media reports, then Australian defence minister Joel Fitzgibbon requested a formal briefing from the Australian Department of Defence on the simulation. This briefing stated that the reports of the simulation were inaccurate and that it did not compare the F-35"²s performance against that of other aircraft.

Lockheed Martin and the United States will fight hard to keep the F-35 program keep running. And these few glitches are not a major drawback and can be solved in the near future.

http://www.defenceaviation.com/2010...aign=Feed:+DefenceAviation+(Defence+Aviation)
 

sesha_maruthi27

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We should not believe the Americans. They are well known to attack from behind. They always support Pakistan and not India, they are just acting to be our partners just for their economic growth and balance of their economy. In no way they like to see INDIA to become a super power, nor they like CHINA to see becoming a super power too. They are very dangerous. We should believe only RUSSIA. RUSSIA has been and will be our most reliable partner of all time. Those Americans tried their best to thrash INDIA during the 1971 war. They even tried to pursue the Chinese to attack. But due to the pressure and fear that RUSSIA(U.S.S.R.) would attack CHINA if CHINA attacked INDIA, the Chinese did not attack INDIA during the 1971. If not for the great Soviet Union, who helped us when we were in need, we would have been nothing more than what Pakistan is. The RUSSIAN'S helped us in every way, they gave us the technology which we were restricted by the west. They gave supplies of arms and ammunition during the 1971 war, which we needed the most during the war. And still they are helping us to develop a nuclear submarine. THEY ARE ALWAYS READY TO HELP INDIA.

"LONG LIVE THE FRIENDSHIP OF INDIA AND RUSSIA" :happy_8:
 

Parthy

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We should not believe the Americans. They are well known to attack from behind. They always support Pakistan and not India, they are just acting to be our partners just for their economic growth and balance of their economy. In no way they like to see INDIA to become a super power, nor they like CHINA to see becoming a super power too. They are very dangerous. We should believe only RUSSIA. RUSSIA has been and will be our most reliable partner of all time. Those Americans tried their best to thrash INDIA during the 1971 war. They even tried to pursue the Chinese to attack. But due to the pressure and fear that RUSSIA(U.S.S.R.) would attack CHINA if CHINA attacked INDIA, the Chinese did not attack INDIA during the 1971. If not for the great Soviet Union, who helped us when we were in need, we would have been nothing more than what Pakistan is. The RUSSIAN'S helped us in every way, they gave us the technology which we were restricted by the west. They gave supplies of arms and ammunition during the 1971 war, which we needed the most during the war. And still they are helping us to develop a nuclear submarine. THEY ARE ALWAYS READY TO HELP INDIA.

"LONG LIVE THE FRIENDSHIP OF INDIA AND RUSSIA" :happy_8:
But we know very well that the Russian techies are having a very tough time to compete with western technologies... They remain a superpower many decades and still having trouble in producing a 5th generator fighter on time...

Lets put it this way.. Have a loyal friendship with Russia and do not bent too much towards them. Lets maintain friendship with all other European countries along with US.. Try to get ToT for max technologies and compromise our defence requirements indigenously...

We will continue to portrait ourselves as a Ever-Friendly country to the "Rest of the World". :happy_2:

At the mean-time we will have the technologies to thwart Pak & Chinese threats... :angry_1:
 

neo29

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Boeing confident with Indian Super Hornet bid

Boeing is optimistic it will make the shortlist for India's medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) requirement in 2011 with its F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, says Rick McCrary, capture team manager for its Defense, Space & Security business unit.

With India having completed in-country flight evaluations of the six candidate airframes, McCrary believes a shortlist will be issued next year to narrow the field, most likely after the Aero India air show in Bangalore.

"I think it will be the heavy twins," he says, referring to the Super Hornet and rival offers with the Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and RSK MiG-35. "They're looking for more serious medium combat aircraft, in weight and performance," he says.

Lockheed Martin and Saab are also pursuing the MMRCA contract offering their single-engined F-16IN and Gripen NG designs.

The Indian air force is seeking an initial 126 aircraft, with an option for 50% more at the same unit price, but McCrary says the service could eventually need up to 400 of the winning design. "They've got a huge air force, but it's ageing," he notes.

Deliveries will start within 36 months of a contract award, which is expected to be made in 2012. The first 18 aircraft will be completed by the successful bidder before final assembly and manufacturing responsibilities are progressively transferred to India. "This is a 20-year programme," McCrary notes.

In the case of Boeing, the company would first transfer final assembly and test of the Super Hornet for India from its St Louis site in Missouri and then "work back from there."

McCrary says New Delhi's recent selection of GE Aviation's F414 engine – which also powers the Super Hornet – for the MkII version of its Tejas light combat aircraft could help Boeing's bid for MMRCA. "We think they're disconnected, but would certainly like to think there's some synergy there."

Boeing also continues to answer requests for information about the Super Hornet from the United Arab Emirates about its new fighter requirement. France is also pursuing a proposed sale of its Rafale to the UAE's air force.

idrw.org
 

Kunal Biswas

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But we know very well that the Russian techies are having a very tough time to compete with western technologies... They remain a superpower many decades and still having trouble in producing a 5th generator fighter on time...

Lets put it this way.. Have a loyal friendship with Russia and do not bent too much towards them. Lets maintain friendship with all other European countries along with US.. Try to get ToT for max technologies and compromise our defence requirements indigenously...

We will continue to portrait ourselves as a Ever-Friendly country to the "Rest of the World". :happy_2:

At the mean-time we will have the technologies to thwart Pak & Chinese threats... :angry_1:

Russians makes Very-Good Fighters!

Not only they also make excellent radars and AAMs..

Russia is a brand new power after soviets fall, Still India and Russia helped each other for last 10 years to become what they are now, I believe they will be doing the same in coming era..

As for American politics, We have to adapt according to the environment, American polices makes America more a businessman man than a friend....



BACK ON TOPIC MMRCAS :)
MBDA and India, SP'S Aviation , June 2010:






 

maomao

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1. Personally i have a lots of doubt about the actual 5th gen characteristics of PAK - Fa as russia is yet to make a genuine super cruising structure & engine. Electronics are far from as advanced as US stuff. Yet to make a proven AESA. Stealth structure is another point of worry. To make exceptionally high stealth supreme supercomputing is needed which russia lacks.Pak Fa will certainly have better maneuverability compared to both F 22 & f 35 but then 5th gen jet is only 10% about maneuverability and rest 90% is stealth & electronics where gap with USA is just too large to fill up even at the export level.
2. I am not ignoring anything friend rather you are not reading me minutely. i said The very signing of the F - 35 with usa will keep china at bay forget about real f 35. ITS THE DIPLOMATIC SHIELD THAT WILL COMES WITH F 35 AND WILL BE DELIVERED AS SOON AS WE SIGN THE DEAL WITH US.

By the way do you have idea what 40 F 35 can do to pakistan or for that matter PLAAF? Ask them they will tell you.
Please have a good reading from a well researched paper and then create a perception about PAK-FA:

Abstract

The public exposure of the Sukhoi/KnAAPO T-50/I-21/Article 701 PAK-FA or Перспективный Авиационный Комплекс Фронтовой Авиации following the 29th January, 2010, test flight has provided sufficient high resolution imagery, video camera footage, and incidental disclosures to perform an initial technical, techno-strategic, and strategic assessment of this new high performance low observable multirole fighter design.

The observed prototype design employs an interim supercruising and thrust vectoring engine, common to the production Su-35S Flanker. The configuration is intended to validate aerodynamic and systems performance, and is clearly not intended for full validation of low observables performance. A new 35 - 40 klbf class 3D TVC supercruising engine for the PAK-FA is currently being developed by NPO Saturn.

Analysis of PAK-FA prototype airframe shaping shows a design which has forward fuselage, inlet, upper fuselage, wing and tail surface airframe Very Low Observable (VLO/stealth) shaping which is highly competitive against the US F-22A Raptor and YF-23 ATF designs. Aft and centre lower fuselage, and aft fuselage and nozzle shaping is inferior to the F-22A Raptor and YF-23 ATF designs, sharing the same deficiencies as the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. This may be an artefact of the use of the interim engines, and uncertainty about aft and beam sector observables performance will remain until later prototypes with the production engine and aft/lower fuselage shaping are available.

Analysis of PAK-FA prototype airframe aerodynamic features shows a design which is superior to all Western equivalents, providing 'extreme agility', superior to that of the Su-35S, through much of the flight envelope. This is accomplished by the combined use of 3D thrust vector control of the engine nozzles, all moving tail surfaces, and refined aerodynamic design with relaxed directional static stability and careful mass distribution to control inertial effects. The PAK-FA is fitted with unusually robust high sink rate undercarriage, intended for STOL operations.

Disclosures indicate that the avionic suite and systems fit will be derived from the Su-35S design, with the important difference in the use of an very high power-aperture product X-band multimode primary AESA radar. Five AESA apertures are intended for production PAK-FA aircraft. The highly integrated avionic suite is intended to provide similar data fusion and networking capabilities to the F-22A Raptor.

The available evidence demonstrates at this time that a mature production PAK-FA design has the potential to compete with the F-22A Raptor in VLO performance from key aspects, and will outperform the F-22A Raptor aerodynamically and kinematically. Therefore, from a technological strategy perspective, the PAK-FA renders all legacy US fighter aircraft, and the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, strategically irrelevant and non-viable after the PAK-FA achieves IOC in 2015.

Detailed strategic analysis indicates that the only viable strategic survival strategy now remaining for the United States is to terminate the Joint Strike Fighter program immediately, redirect freed funding to further develop the F-22 Raptor, and employ variants of the F-22 aircraft as the primary fighter aircraft for all United States and Allied TACAIR needs.

If the United States does not fundamentally change its planning for the future of tactical air power, the advantage held for decades will be soon lost and American air power will become an artefact of history.

Introduction
PAK-FA Development History
Tactical, Operational and Strategic Impact of the PAK-FA
PAK-FA Design Philosophy
PAK-FA Low Observable Design
PAK-FA Aerodynamic Design
PAK-FA Structural, Systems and Propulsion Design
PAK-FA Cockpit, Avionics and Radar Design
PAK-FA Weapons Capabilities
Notes/References/Bibliography
Related Reading
Acknowledgements
Annex A PAK-FA Prototypes
Annex B PAK-FA Multimedia
Introduction
The emergence of the Russian Sukhoi PAK-FA marks the end of the United States' quarter century long monopoly on the design of Very Low Observable (VLO) or stealth aircraft1.

The capabilities of the PAK-FA make a clear statement defining the Russian view of Within-Visual-Range (WVR) and Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) air combat, which diverges fundamentally from contemporary Western thinking. The Russian paradigm is clearly centred on the idea that BVR and WVR combat are much alike, insofar as during the engagement endgame the fighter under attack is within tracking range of the weapon fire control system and where possible the weapon or fire control element should be defeated kinematically. The principal observed difference between WVR and BVR combat in the Russian model, is that the latter relies more heavily on long range sensors and their ability to defeat low observability measures, or active countermeasures.

Designed to compete against the F-22 in traditional Beyond Visual Range (BVR) and Within Visual Range (WVR) air combat, the PAK-FA shares all of the key fifth generation attributes until now unique to the F-22 - stealth, supersonic cruise, thrust vectoring, highly integrated avionics and a powerful suite of active and passive sensors. While the PAK-FA firmly qualifies as a fifth generation design, it has two further attributes absent in the extant F-22 design. The first is extreme agility, resulting from advanced aerodynamic design, exceptional thrust/weight ratio performance and three dimensional thrust vectoring integrated with an advanced digital flight control system. The second attribute is exceptional combat persistence, the result of a 25,000 lb internal fuel load. The internal and external weapon payload are likely to be somewhat larger, though comparable to those of the F-22A.

Russia intends to operate at least two hundred PAK-FAs, India two hundred and fifty of the Indian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) variant, with global PAK-FA exports likely to add at least 500 more tails to the production tally. The stated intent is to supply the PAK-FA as a replacement for existing T-10 Flanker series fighter aircraft.

Initial analysis of PAK-FA imagery and public disclosures by the Russian government and Sukhoi bureau indicate that a production PAK-FA will yield greater aerodynamic and kinematic performance to the current F-22A design, and similar low observables performance to the F-35A JSF2.

While the basic shaping observed on this first prototype of the PAK-FA will deny it the critical all-aspect stealth performance of the F-22 in BVR air combat and deep penetration, its extreme manoeuvrability/controllability design features, which result in extreme agility, give it the potential to become the most lethal and survivable fighter ever built for air combat engagements3.

It is important to consider that the publicly displayed PAK-FA prototype does not represent a production configuration of the aircraft, which is to employ a new engine design, and extensive VLO treatments which are not required on a prototype. A number of observers have attempted to draw conclusions about production PAK-FA VLO performance based on the absence of such treatments, the result of which have been a series of unrealistically optimistic commentaries.

PAK-FA Low Rate Initial Production is planned for 2013, and Full Rate Production for 2015, with initial deliveries of the Indian dual seat variant planned for 2017.




PAK-FA Development History



Early rendering of the PAK-FA design (NPO Saturn).

The evolution and development history of the PAK-FA, historically, has not been well documented in open sources, largely due to the high levels of secrecy surrounding this program since its inception. What is known from open sources largely amounts to a collation of various intentional and incidental Russian disclosures, and increasingly, disclosures by India, who have a 25% share in the development of the design.

Study of the aircraft's design features, and earlier Sukhoi demonstrators, indicate that much careful thought has been invested into this design and its progressive development over a period of two decades.

When the Soviets deployed the Su-27S Flanker B during the early 1980s, investment into a replacement was initiated. This resulted in the reasonably well known 1990s MiG I.44 MFI (Mnogo-Funktsionniy Istrebitel' or Multi-Role Fighter), which was a multirole fighter modelled on the aerodynamics of the three "Eurocanard" designs, but much larger and intended to be powered by the Al-41F supersonic cruise engine.

The MFI was built to supercruise, and to provide very high agility, but no investment was made into signature reduction, making it fundamentally uncompetitive against the early 1990s US Air Force Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) YF-22 and YF-23 demonstrators................................................................ Continue Reading: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2010-01.html
 

blade

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Indian MRCA deal is almost over, leaving a few critical issues.The choice is evident & the best thanks to the present GOI.So all these fan boy articles will only add to the mediocre mass psychology and nothing else. Russia is a second grade power and hardly has got any implication for india in the present context (diplomatically)but still some indians prefer to live in disillusionment & stay stuck to 1970's world. Things will change slowly but surely.So will change the international outlook on India.USA & India will come close as was envisaged by swami vivekananda.Both has its prejudices & interests where the leaders will have to find the way to merge them.By 2025 Anti US elements in India & anti indian elements in US will be rare minorities in either nation.Time will prove it.So lets wait & watch.Russian's are irresponsible nation, all the mean is money and has no sense of responsibility right now.Hopefully we will not have to wait to see they are arming BOTH our enemies to TEETH by the fall of 2020 onward."So learn to play dirty or accept a dirty death" is the mantra for india.
 

SHASH2K2

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Indian MRCA deal is almost over, leaving a few critical issues.The choice is evident & the best thanks to the present GOI.So all these fan boy articles will only add to the mediocre mass psychology and nothing else. Russia is a second grade power and hardly has got any implication for india in the present context (diplomatically)but still some indians prefer to live in disillusionment & stay stuck to 1970's world. Things will change slowly but surely.So will change the international outlook on India.USA & India will come close as was envisaged by swami vivekananda.Both has its prejudices & interests where the leaders will have to find the way to merge them.By 2025 Anti US elements in India & anti indian elements in US will be rare minorities in either nation.Time will prove it.So lets wait & watch.Russian's are irresponsible nation, all the mean is money and has no sense of responsibility right now.Hopefully we will not have to wait to see they are arming BOTH our enemies to TEETH by the fall of 2020 onward."So learn to play dirty or accept a dirty death" is the mantra for india.

You are a die hard USA and F35 fan. I have a feeling that as per you F35 is solution to all our woes. we get few and Pakistan will be no more in this world and China will start pissing in the pants.
But you forget the basic fact that We need many more equipments to protect our interests . Will USA help us in Space technology? Will USA give use nuclear subs on lease and help us to build our own nuclear sub. Will USA build destroyers and frigates for us? Answer is no And somehow if yes for a few there will be so much cost involved and strings attached that it will be impossible to buy them. Did you forgot GE refusing to give Engines for Shivalik project? Russi may be behind USA but it still has a lot that no one else in this world can offer. today USA is dselling us PAC systems becase we are already on verge of making a missile defence system of or own. Its nothing but ploy to kill our own industry and make us fully dependent on them .
AS per You Russia is an Evil Baniya whose only motto is to make money then I would say USA is SATAN . when USA tun its head on Pakistan exporting terrorism to India its justified USA arming Pakistan since its inception is justified and USA creating Taliban and AL-quaeda is al Justified?
For me no one is Good or Evil . One who is good for India is Good and BAD for India is BAD . SO far Russia has done more goods than America so Russia is better and reliable partner than USA.
 

Parthy

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Boeing confident with Indian Super Hornet bid
By Craig Hoyle

Boeing is optimistic it will make the shortlist for India's medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) requirement in 2011 with its F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, says Rick McCrary, capture team manager for its Defense, Space & Security business unit.

With India having completed in-country flight evaluations of the six candidate airframes, McCrary believes a shortlist will be issued next year to narrow the field, most likely after the Aero India air show in Bangalore.

"I think it will be the heavy twins," he says, referring to the Super Hornet and rival offers with the Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and RSK MiG-35. "They're looking for more serious medium combat aircraft, in weight and performance," he says.


© US Navy

Lockheed Martin and Saab are also pursuing the MMRCA contract offering their single-engined F-16IN and Gripen NG designs.

The Indian air force is seeking an initial 126 aircraft, with an option for 50% more at the same unit price, but McCrary says the service could eventually need up to 400 of the winning design. "They've got a huge air force, but it's ageing," he notes.

Deliveries will start within 36 months of a contract award, which is expected to be made in 2012. The first 18 aircraft will be completed by the successful bidder before final assembly and manufacturing responsibilities are progressively transferred to India. "This is a 20-year programme," McCrary notes.

In the case of Boeing, the company would first transfer final assembly and test of the Super Hornet for India from its St Louis site in Missouri and then "work back from there."

McCrary says New Delhi's recent selection of GE Aviation's F414 engine - which also powers the Super Hornet - for the MkII version of its Tejas light combat aircraft could help Boeing's bid for MMRCA. "We think they're disconnected, but would certainly like to think there's some synergy there."

Boeing also continues to answer requests for information about the Super Hornet from the United Arab Emirates about its new fighter requirement. France is also pursuing a proposed sale of its Rafale to the UAE's air force.
 

blade

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You are a die hard USA and F35 fan. I have a feeling that as per you F35 is solution to all our woes. we get few and Pakistan will be no more in this world and China will start pissing in the pants.
But you forget the basic fact that We need many more equipments to protect our interests . Will USA help us in Space technology? Will USA give use nuclear subs on lease and help us to build our own nuclear sub. Will USA build destroyers and frigates for us? Answer is no And somehow if yes for a few there will be so much cost involved and strings attached that it will be impossible to buy them. Did you forgot GE refusing to give Engines for Shivalik project? Russi may be behind USA but it still has a lot that no one else in this world can offer. today USA is dselling us PAC systems becase we are already on verge of making a missile defence system of or own. Its nothing but ploy to kill our own industry and make us fully dependent on them .
AS per You Russia is an Evil Baniya whose only motto is to make money then I would say USA is SATAN . when USA tun its head on Pakistan exporting terrorism to India its justified USA arming Pakistan since its inception is justified and USA creating Taliban and AL-quaeda is al Justified?
For me no one is Good or Evil . One who is good for India is Good and BAD for India is BAD . SO far Russia has done more goods than America so Russia is better and reliable partner than USA.
If you think I am a die hard fan of USA then i am sorry o say you neither have the habit nor the mind set to read others carefully before you make your comments.No one in the world politics ever helped anyone for that matter.Every one just helps their own country directly or indirectly.What the bloody hell F 35 gotta do with nuke subs and other indian needs? Do u think if india continues buying more and more US hardware it will stop russia from selling us anything? You are in fools paradise then.I have repeatedly mentioned to get equivalent hardware from russia whenever & where ever available at a cheaper price but alliance with USA is mostly in terms of highest echelon technologies to stay ahead of china beyond doubt.
For your kind information We need nothing to hold pakistan for the the coming 10 years at least. We already have enough capability crush them. F- 35 will be only a deterrence against china both in terms HARDWARE & DIPLOMATIC umbrella. I have explained it in clear terms more than once in this thread but you still nag with halfhearted reading and go on making statements without any valid reasonable arguments. I dont want to know who is SATAN , it is US or USSR but my point is USA is far far more capable than the present russia so is the most suitable partner for indian aspirations to become a big power.It will be the job of our diplomats to handle this issue. The very economic advancement in india will bring it closer to USA and all the reservations that some anti indian lobby in USA has will gradually be flattened out.Without the diplomatic support and backing India will face tremendous bullying from china including military misadventures.Russia will be no capable to help india as china is no pakistan.Time has come to come out of the khap panchayeti old and worn out diplomacy of good & bad. In world politics all are the same , its your and your timely prudent steps make right friend & foe.One request please read my posts carefully before making fictitious comments on them.
 
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SHASH2K2

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You are in fools paradise then.I have repeatedly mentioned to get equivalent hardware from russia whenever & where ever available at a cheaper price but alliance with USA is mostly in terms of highest echelon technologies to stay ahead of china beyond doubt.
Yes sir I am in Fools paradise and you are my leader. India is not the first country who is on verge of becoming USA ally . I understand being an ally of USA it brings huge benefit for Economy as well as geopolitical influence. Military equipments is one other field we are about to gain a lot.
Now comes my point . Can you name one Ally of USA which is militarily on its own feat . They are all dependent on USA for their military equipments because they have almost negligible military research capability left. They always have to toe USA line. Look what USA has done to Almighty Great Britain.Japan S korea are all dependent on USA to protect them and uSa is reaping it to maximize its financial gaoins. I am not against Alliance with USA but we should not become their puppet and dependent on them for everything. We will never know what hit us but we will be on crutches very shortly .

I would ask you to read my comments carefully and go through each point and evaluate them rather than just singing praises for Uncle sam. If we were not part of PAK FA I would have loved to see F35 in Indian colours, but not at Cost of AMCA. ANd By the way your F35 program is riddled with problems if you are following its development.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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F- 35 will be only a deterrence against china both in terms HARDWARE & DIPLOMATIC umbrella.
DIPLOMATIC?

The recent Nuclear Deal and C10 & C130 purchase are enough to define India under US umbrella at-least when we are talking China...
Its not only good for us but US too..


F-35 is not some thing best as per Hardware:

1. Its riddle with problems at manufacturing plant and their are many customers, hence their will be delays..
2. Its offer with considerably low payload compare to top MMRCA fighters like Rafale and F-18SH..
3. Single Engine..
4. High Price..
5. No or Very Limited TOT if happened..
6. Its also have attached strings..

IAF need a cheap and reliable multirole fighter..
My vote goes for Rafale only..


If we need to buy some thing more than we should go where we are weak for example Infantry up-gradation ( 95% ) and training..
Indian GOV already made some deals regarding much needed fields in arty and ATGMs and i am looking for much better US equipments in IA..
 

SHASH2K2

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No F-35 for India

The Indian Defense Secretary on Wednesday dismissed the possibility of India planning the acquisition of a fifth generation fighter aircraft, alternate to the Russian PAK FA.

Pradeep Kumar, who is the top civil servant in the Ministry of Defense told reporters on Wednesday that, while the agreement for design and development of the PAK FA is expected to come through with Russia, after the Indian Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approves the details, "You can't have two types (of fifth generation fighters).

Pointing out that even the US was, even now, working on the development of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, Kumar categorically repeated, "There is no question of having two fighters."

The Indian Navy, in a Request for Information (RFI) for carrier-borne fighter aircraft issued last year, had asked for information on the F-35 from the US defense and aerospace major, Lockheed Martin. The company, along with other vendors, had made presentations on the aircraft to the navy, but presumably, the idea of acquiring the F-35 has gone no further than that.

The Defense Secretary also ruled out the possibility of acquiring any of the embattled British Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers, one of which will not carry fighter aircraft and is to be mothballed three years after commissioning. "Why would we buy one?" he asked, adding that India was on track with its aircraft carrier program.

Speaking on the upcoming visit of President Barack Obama to India, he indicated the Ministry of Defense to be still studying the issue of signing agreement like the Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA), Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA)and Logistics Support Agreement (LSA) with the US, saying, "Our people should also feel it should benefit us."

India is contemplating the purchase of 10 C-17 Globemaster III aircraft for USD 5.8 billion, six additional C-130J Super Hercules aircraft, in addition to the six already ordered for over a billion dollars, and four additional P-8I long range maritime aircraft for over a billion US dollars, in addition to the eight already on order for USD 2.2 billion. Besides this, India is conducting trials for the purchase of the BAE Systems-built M777 Ultra Light Howitzer through the Foreign Military Sale (FMS) route.
 

Rahul Singh

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It is extremely amazing to see people talking in favour of F-35 in such a manner that USAF F-35 = IAF* F-35. People wake up, any possible sell of F-35 to IAF will mean downgrading F-35 to a standard what US thinks suitable and will not let IAF eat whole PAF in one go. And its not outrageous to claim that IAF* F-35 will be most downgraded among exported examples. So what good F-35 will do for IAF? BTW effectiveness of F-35 is itself under scanner. I don't know what will IAF achieve if their F-35 carry only two ton of internal weapons and mind you F-35 is not even as stealthy as F-22.
 

blade

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Yes sir I am in Fools paradise and you are my leader. India is not the first country who is on verge of becoming USA ally . I understand being an ally of USA it brings huge benefit for Economy as well as geopolitical influence. Military equipments is one other field we are about to gain a lot.
Now comes my point . Can you name one Ally of USA which is militarily on its own feat . They are all dependent on USA for their military equipments because they have almost negligible military research capability left. They always have to toe USA line. Look what USA has done to Almighty Great Britain.Japan S korea are all dependent on USA to protect them and uSa is reaping it to maximize its financial gaoins. I am not against Alliance with USA but we should not become their puppet and dependent on them for everything. We will never know what hit us but we will be on crutches very shortly .

I would ask you to read my comments carefully and go through each point and evaluate them rather than just singing praises for Uncle sam. If we were not part of PAK FA I would have loved to see F35 in Indian colours, but not at Cost of AMCA. ANd By the way your F35 program is riddled with problems if you are following its development.
Dear friend I am not typing so much to win any competition here.Slowly i am getting convinced that more or less even YOU agree to all the points that i have been mentioning here but its either your ego or something else that's preventing you from accepting it. I dont know whether to lough or cry when you question the R & D capabilities of the countries like UK,france,germany sweeden, and many more.For that matter even japan has much more powerful defense related infra than what you think its their own geopolitical decision that they never went much into real production.Still they make finest of tanks other many high tech defense hardware.

The points that you mentioned in the boldened part are following:

1. I am praising USA.
2. AMCA will be affected in case of F 35 induction.
3. F 35 is my program & its riddled with many difficulties.

Reply: 1. Sad to see you are showing pakistan like mentality by harping the same nonsensical thing again & again.I have clearly mentioned there is no GOOD or BAD in international politics.VERY GOOD things always comes with certain price. India is already perusing a very comprehensive indegenization program. It will take time to fructify them.Until then we should try to keep war at bay which only USA can ensure us.
2. AMCA has nothing to do with f - 35 absolutely.Forget about limited ToT of F 35, it will come with no ToT atall. Even then it will give us more security than anything else against china.Buying F 35 also has nothing to do with MRCA deal.Until & unless we buy F 18 SH USA will never get us the best they offer.So India will surely buy Super hornet and all these nautanki is just nautanki only.
3. Any relatively new platform will have such troubles nothing new about it.PAK FA will have 10 time more issues than F 35 program if it has to have any significant 5th gen capability.Newer designs always have compatibility & fine tuning issues for a long time especially when there is a dramatic generational jump.Only pakistani Missile project is an expection where no new project ever met with a problem.Simply because they are the best.So india should buy from pakistan I think !!!.

Look Its evident that you are majorly stuck to the 1970's and too weak & scared to try new things.A mentality that kept India out of stardom for many decades.Thank God that right now Best Indian minds dont think like you and they have taken up the challenge to take india to her goal via better ways.Success is not for coward or self proclaimed righteous people either.These US hegemony or arm twisting ( which they should do to maintain their supremacy and India will also do once they become the superpower) are mostly on paper. Once the country have enough economic clout like china these Cismoa bla bla will turn into mere piece of junk paper.I personally feel india should even sign CTBT as soon as possible to come in the good book of USA.Get into the heart of US.Steal their secretes,make nukes with the help of russia in their land. store in india.Reverse engineers what ever we can with the help of israel.Also pay huge money to russia and make ICBM & SLBM in their infra as well as test it by them.Do every dirty things possible that can fetch us good deal of knowledge in comming 15 years.Then show middle finger to the world.Tear off the papers.Take everything given by US under any goddam plan.Change their codes , disallow any US intervention.Blast 10 Hidrogen bomb and see what US can do then ?.

Another option will be sticking to some second grade deplomatic nation with third grade economy, which has a second grade conventional military with first grade know how.That is also being sold by them to our enemy china.We will never be able to out perform china in defence. The X factor will never come.I am happy this theory of yours is not currently they way GOI takes things so i will no more waste my time to convince you.You keep harping about GOOD bad BAD , RIGHT & WRONG when i just want to see the result and so dose the GOI. This is the age of Indians plaing dirty just mark my words.Future will clear it all.Till then Good bye.
 
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SHASH2K2

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Dear friend I am not typing so much to win any competition here.Slowly i am getting convinced that more or less even YOU agree to all the points that i have been mentioning here but its either your ego or something else that's preventing you from accepting it. I dont know whether to lough or cry when you question the R & D capabilities of the countries like UK,france,germany sweeden, and many more.For that matter even japan has much more powerful defense related infra than what you think its their own geopolitical decision that they never went much into real production.Still they make finest of tanks other many high tech defense hardware.

The points that you mentioned in the boldened part are following:

1. I am praising USA.
2. AMCA will be affected in case of F 35 induction.
3. F 35 is my program & its riddled with many difficulties.
When you raise one finger at someone you forget to realize that for of your own fingers point at you. I can also say that Its you EGO that forces you on some great theory of yours that F35 is a magic wand that will fix all problems that India is facing . I am dragging AMCA in to this because we have almost finalized PAK FA deal . IF we go for F35 then we will have almost 3 diffrent kind of 5th generation planes in coming days. Don,t you think think that it will be overkill and complete wastage of resources that can be better utilized for some other projects. And regarding military research and production capability of Japan . I would love if you can throw some more light on that. what are latest defence project that Japan is carrying on its own?

Reply: 1. Sad to see you are showing pakistan like mentality by harping the same nonsensical thing again & again.I have clearly mentioned there is no GOOD or BAD in international politics.VERY GOOD things always comes with certain price. India is already perusing a very comprehensive indegenization program. It will take time to fructify them.Until then we should try to keep war at bay which only USA can ensure us.
I would say that you are talking like a Pakistani whose speedometers needle is stuck on only one point . It will not move at all whatever be the case. I am not only who is against F35. Please go through views expressed against this Idea by various members . you will get an Idea that you are acting like a Pakistani Ostrich who is not ready to accept the facts. USA is already with us and we are buying arms and weapons with Billions from USA . SO your logic of security that can be ensured only by USA doesn't hold ground .
 

Armand2REP

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The whole purpose for India to buy advanced aircraft is to have access to critical technologies to advance HAL. Buying F-35 will not get you that access, not when key allies are denied source codes.
 
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