MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

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Armand2REP

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Typical Rafale fanbooi shenanigans or perhaps you're just deluded, lets examine your claim
Typical American flag-waving or perhaps you are just diluded with arrogance. Let us examine your own evidence.

Examine the below video, starting 1.32 LCDR Jeff "Caesar" Czerewkg describes how he got inside a turning MIG-29 and rained bullets into the MIG's cockpit.
The German Luftwaffe pilot flying the MIG was a veteran of several DACT missions while LCDR Czerewkg had 30 flying hour in the Hornet before he went to Germany.
If you had bothered to watch the rest of that episode of WINGS, the next featured pilot was a Top Gun graduate and scored 1:1. The next pilot died in the flailing leaf crash mode when he stalled to drop 10,000ft and recovered under the simulated ground. The next sortie of MiGs wiped the flight of Hornets. All the rest of it was against F-4s which the Hornets had little problem. I suggest you watch all of it before you only post what you want us to see and not what you don't want us to see.

Oh! pay close attention to the Alpha read out on the F-18 HUD, and do let me know why the alpha on the Rafale is FLCS restricted and what is the set limit on deployed Rafale's.
He was 50 degrees "nose low" inverted. What is so great about coming down on him in regards to Alpha? Rafale's limit seems to be 40 degrees based on the HUD videos. Hornets start their flailing leaf crash at around 30.

Of course we always have these gems from Rafale...


Let that sink in for awhile... :emot15:

I guess your claim of 'whooped by MIG-29' doesn't stand up to close scrutiny.
I would call 4:2 whooped. Maybe not as bad as Rafale whooped the Super Hornet, but whooped just the same.

Not unlike the other garbage you spew here, for instance several months ago
you posted some nonsense about about a Rafale achieving a lock on a Raptor at the ATLC exercises held by UAE in Al Dhafr.
No I didn't... I said a Mirage-2000 instructor pilot scored a lock-on and they made a patch for it.



I had a good laugh and but I let it pass, I didn't want to make you look silly and ruin your credibility. But then you had to push your luck by mocking an unfortunate Canadian pilot.
Whose being laughed at? That video says it all. Rafale pawns Super Hornet.
 
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anoop_mig25

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Russian deigned MIG-29 to be best Dog-fighter, Where as US make world class Radars and BVRs..
What Indian need is now a good A2A fighter a better A2G Aircraft..

1. Rafale ( With better Engines i am expecting better result )..
2. F-18 ( With Better Engines )
3. Typhoon..
as mig-35 is new version of mig -29 its better in dog-fights(because i have read it in newspaper).so which of above planes are better in dog-fights as compare to each other(i have read that that american f-22 is better)

why indian need both a2a and a2g aircraft (as u are saying sir). wont any one of them would server our purpose.
 

p2prada

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I read that too... funny thing is that there are no orders for Brahmos outside of India. Not even Russia is ordering it.
Brahmos has not yet been given clearance for exports, so export orders are a no go until talks begin with possible customers. Talks have just begin and will progress in a few years, maybe something concrete will be out by next year. If Brahmos has said the possible orders are worth $13Billion then I believe them. Did you forget we are a democracy, we cannot lie or the govt will be embarrassed.

A pretty important point from the ToI article, The negotiations and ground work to export these missiles to other countries have started. The export of BrahMos will start once the requirements of Indian defence are met",

Once our requirements are met, order books will be filled. Our officials have already predicted an order of atleast 1000-2000 Brahmos exports. Don't gape once you see the news about Brahmos from next year. Even US will die to get their hands on a supersonic sea skimmer. Afterall, only we have it.

As for Russia, I have no idea why they haven't placed an order yet. Maybe because they are waiting for Indian orders to be completed, because Brahmos is being built only in India. There are rumors Russia wants Brahmos on their newest Frigates, maybe even 1 Frigate. None of the older Russian ships can hold the Brahmos because of size specifications. They neither have the money nor the ships for it as of now.

As of today nobody can match us in the cruise missile market. Not France, not China and neither can the US. We have no competition.
 

Kunal Biswas

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as mig-35 is new version of mig -29 its better in dog-fights(because i have read it in newspaper).so which of above planes are better in dog-fights as compare to each other(i have read that that american f-22 is better)

why indian need both a2a and a2g aircraft (as u are saying sir). wont any one of them would server our purpose.

Mig-35 is a upgraded MIG-29, with TV engines it have better AoA plus 45degree bore sights, radar is AESA..

Rafale proved that it is better in A2A and A2G when comparing to typhoon, Rafale also knock out F-18 in dogfights..

Mig-35 and Rafale never meet in dogfight though if happens i think Mig-35 got the upper-hand coz of its TV engines..

IAF need to secure sky before Ground units advance, Also the same Aircraft need to give precision attacks and Close ground supports to troops on the ground..
Thats why we need a Aircraft which is best in both..


F-22 is super hi-tech fighter of US, In response to that, Russian made PAK-FA which will be produced in India as FGFA..
 

anoop_mig25

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Mig-35 is a upgraded MIG-29, with TV engines it have better AoA plus 45degree bore sights, radar is AESA..

Rafale proved that it is better in A2A and A2G when comparing to typhoon, Rafale also knock out F-18 in dogfights..

Mig-35 and Rafale never meet in dogfight though if happens i think Mig-35 got the upper-hand coz of its TV engines..

IAF need to secure sky before Ground units advance, Also the same Aircraft need to give precision attacks and Close ground supports to troops on the ground..
Thats why we need a Aircraft which is best in both..


F-22 is super hi-tech fighter of US, In response to that, Russian made PAK-FA which will be produced in India as FGFA..
so iaf should opt for mig-35 as u said
IAF need to secure sky before Ground units advance, Also the same Aircraft need to give precision attacks and Close ground supports to troops on the ground.
in addition it has AESA radar
 

Armand2REP

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so iaf should opt for mig-35 as u said in addition it has AESA radar
There are two problems with the radar...

A) it is not complete, the T/R modules have to be minaturised to double the count
B) the manufacturer is bankrupt

There are problems with the OLS. UMOZ has proven totally incapable of developing third gen FLIR, from tanks to helicopters having to sign new deals with Thales every year. No reason to believe they can make a cutting edge OLS.

Engines do not have the time between overhauls that Klimov states. Also they failed to meet IAF expectation during trials.

Last but not least, Russia has failed to put its backing behind the project in more than one way. Not only has it failed to buy it, it has failed to bailout the companies making its avionics. Production MiG-35 will never see the light of day.
 

Daredevil

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MIg-35 is a lost cause. Its nothing but a modified Mig-29 which is a 30 years old air-frame design. We need modern fighters with modern air-frames and Mig-35 definitely doesn't fit the profile.
 

Kunal Biswas

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so iaf should opt for mig-35 as u said in addition it has AESA radar
AESA is a updated Radar while comparing with MIG-29`s Radar..
MIG-35 is a excellent Dog-fighter with Good BVR missiles..

But Russian have two major drawbacks while taking abt MIG-35..
1. In A2G it doesn't have any pure standoff weapon..
2. ECM is external..

Overall MIG-35 is good in A2A but its not so effective in A2G when comparing to other Aircrafts such as RAFALE and F-18..
 

luckyy

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If Brahmos has said the possible orders are worth $13Billion then I believe them. Did you forget we are a democracy, we cannot lie or the govt will be embarrassed.

Our officials have already predicted an order of atleast 1000-2000 Brahmos exports. Don't gape once you see the news about Brahmos from next year. Even US will die to get their hands on a supersonic sea skimmer. Afterall, only we have it.

. None of the older Russian ships can hold the Brahmos because of size specifications. They neither have the money nor the ships for it as of now.
.
over 60,000 US harpoon are sold all over world ....
the export orderbook of brahmos should be seen in this contrast.....$13bn orderbook is just the begining ...

coming to MIG-35 , if we jointly export it , the orderbook for MIG-35 can run into $50bn as there are over 30 countries who has no excess to US/europien aircrafts due to either plitical or economical reasons , and they will buy mig-35 either buy choice or by default....
 

FearlessTiger

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But Russian have two major drawbacks while taking abt MIG-35..
1. In A2G it doesn't have any pure standoff weapon..
2. ECM is external..
Even Russian agree for that, also they offered french avonic's and also other best systems in the world, to fit into the MIG 35 , later they also offered IMPROVED airframe.
A2G weapons are not problem, because we integrate it on MIG 35 by purchasing from other countries
 

Yusuf

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All crap if they say we will develop this for you and that for you. What we need is something off the shelf which is complete in all aspects. We don't need a developmental 4+ gen plane. All developmental planes right now are 5th gen. We want to increase our squad strength right now with a fighter that we might use for just about 20 years. Its the falling numbers which prompted the MRCA and the delay in LCA. We cannot wait for people to develop things for us. We need what's there already in production as per our staff req.
 

death.by.chocolate

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If you had bothered to watch the rest of that episode of WINGS, the next featured pilot was a Top Gun graduate and scored 1:1. The next pilot died in the flailing leaf crash mode when he stalled to drop 10,000ft and recovered under the simulated ground. The next sortie of MiGs wiped the flight of Hornets. All the rest of it was against F-4s which the Hornets had little problem. I suggest you watch all of it before you only post what you want us to see and not what you don't want us to see.
You obviously don't know much about military aviation or air combat so I'll cut you some slack.
I did not claim the Hornet is invincible, you on the other said "The Hornet has been whooped by MiG-29" I merely presented HUD video as evidence to counter that claim of whooped. You do know what whooped means don't you? In close air combat the pilot that starts with a positional advantage typically wins. Our pilots have been trained to avoid turning death traps simply because in a turning fight the outcome is uncertain.Little boys lay great emphasis on dog fight and dog fighting capabilities, we prefer to focus our attention on high value ground targets. Opponents that that take flight to challenge us are mere nuisance that must be dealt with as quickly as possible so our assets can quickly dismantle our enemies war making capability.

That said, the outcome of the MIG-29 vs Hornet close combat DACT was even with either aircraft failing to achieve superiority in close combat. Beyond visual range the MIG-29A was uncompetitive. So again your claim of 'whooped by MIG-29' is ridiculous.

Yes, I did see the remainder of the video and all related videos but I missed the part where..
The next sortie of MiGs wiped the flight of Hornets. "
where in the video did this 'wiping' occur? I hope you know what wiping means?


Rafale's limit seems to be 40 degrees based on the HUD videos.
Again, where in the video did the Rafale pitch 40 degrees? The max AoA I saw was a wobbly 27 degrees :emot112:

Of course we always have these gems from Rafale...
Yes fabricated gems by Rafale fanbooi's that are incapable of interpreting what they see.
I took the liberty of examining your video and capturing a few frames to expose your deception





The Hornet appears once in your video, but since you don't know much about simulated close combat you probably don't know for safety close combat training requires separation of a 1000 ft to employ weapons the Hornet in your video is passing directly in front of the Rafale's nose well within the mandated 1000 ft separation. This isn't a video of a F-18 kill the planes in question are not engaged in combat simulated or otherwise. Next time you post garbage from youtube ask for adult supervision. :angry_10:




I said a Mirage-2000 instructor pilot scored a lock-on and they made a patch for it.
The French claim a Raptor kill by a Mirage it may have happened like I said close combat is free for all anything can happen. But then you missed what was said by Lt Col Lansing Pilch about the exercise in UAE

"In every test we did, the Raptors just blew the competition out of the water."

Lt Col Lansing Pilch, commander of the 27th, and of the F-22 deployment to Al Dhafra, was categoric in stating his view of the Raptor's performance during the exercise. He confirmed that the six Raptors flew undefeated, against all opponents. Pilch said: "In every test we did, the Raptors just blew the competition out of the water."
 

FearlessTiger

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You do know what whooped means don't you? In close air combat the pilot that starts with a positional advantage typically wins.
DBC, You have very good knowldge, you know every technical term and explain it in layman's language
 

Daredevil

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Claiming superiority of fighters based on close combat exercises is not wise due to the fact that Radar, EW, ECMs etc are all dumbed down, there is dissimilar combat and not to mention rookie versus senior fighter pilots. Only fanbois have this penchant of claiming superiority over some exercises which are not even close to combat situations and such claims should be treated with contempt.
 

SATISH

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Well according to me "I wouldnt prefer to carry the sharpest and most costliest dagger when my opponent is armed with a pistol" It is use less to do it. The one who sees first and the one who shoots and scores first is the winner. This has been happening from WW 1.

Back to the topic. The Rafale and the F 18 are great competitors. Both are capable. But the only thing rafale has an edge is ToT. And I think that even airframes belong to the same time frame when Rafale and the F 18 E/F are considered.
 

smartindian

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@death.by.chocolate answer this question if u are claiming that f-18 is so good or f-16 world beater why IAF rejected this plane and choose EF and rafale which are most costlier. i know that you have some technical knowledge about aviation but it doesn't mean what you say are always correct
 

SATISH

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@death.by.chocolate answer this question if u are claiming that f-18 is so good or f-16 world beater why IAF rejected this plane and choose EF and rafale which are most costlier. i know that you have some technical knowledge about aviation but it doesn't mean what you say are always correct
Uh...Did the MoD take a decision?...is the deal done?..
 

smartindian

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Uh...Did the MoD take a decision?...is the deal done?..
there where some article i read in a news paper give me some time i will post a link. and i also believe that EF and rafale is technically superior to any american plane are in the compitation
 

luckyy

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Our pilots have been trained to avoid turning death traps simply because in a turning fight the outcome is uncertain.Little boys lay great emphasis on dog fight and dog fighting capabilities, we prefer to focus our attention on high value ground targets.
so , which fighter IAF should be flying to counter the incoming pakistani F-16 or chines SU-30MKK ....

is it the F-18 with high value ground targets attention..?
 

FearlessTiger

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DBC, I am agree with you that AMERICA has much developed AERONAUTICAL technology compare to its EUROPEAN counterpart. A HORNET aircraft is decade old program but still competing with a new EUROFIGHTER and RAFALE aircrafts. I confident that BOEING has a various PROVEN technologies compare to the EUROPEAN technologies which are on test bed.
BUT still one Question arises that AMERICA sell its INTERNATIONAL POLICIES and AGENDA with their weapons.
 
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