MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

[Armand2REP]

do you want us to repeat like a parrot, all exports are possible when if the both users requirements are met only

Better up the news properly.

I read it, it didn't say possible. It said the order book was $13 billion.

BrahMos order book swells to $13 billion - The Economic Times

Better up the news properly.

 

[luckyy]

I read that too... funny thing is that there are no orders for Brahmos outside of India. Not even Russia is ordering it.

indian order for brahmos amounts to only $3bn out of the total orderbook of $13bn......

but that was not the point i make...

it was the export of MIG-35 which i was reffering to..!!

 

[Agantrope]

I read it, it didn't say possible. It said the order book was $13 billion.

BrahMos order book swells to $13 billion - The Economic Times

Better up the news properly.

Gooness it is from a times news article. they are predicting and they are releasing the news article from their magic box:emot180:. I am sorry for arguing on this crappy article. No more than $4B will be max order book worth

 

[Armand2REP]

indian order for brahmos amounts to only $3bn out of the total orderbook of $13bn......

but that was not the point i make...

it was the export of MIG-35 which i was reffering to..!!

Yes, and the same point I made for Brahmos is the same for MiG-35. Not even Russia orders it.

 

[luckyy]

Yes, and the same point I made for Brahmos is the same for MiG-35. Not even Russia orders it.

even russian didn't had funds to make that supersonic missile which we now called brahmos...

but now brahmos has $13bn orderbook....and the same point I made for MIG-35 is the same for brahmos..

 

[Armand2REP]

even russian didn't had funds to make that supersonic missile which we now called brahmos...

but now brahmos has $13bn orderbook....and the same point I made for MIG-35 is the same for brahmos..

Russians make Yakhont, which is the same thing. They entered the Brahmos JV because India wouldn't buy it any other way. They never had any intention of buying it. Much the same as MiG-35.

Brahmos has no order book except India, MiG-35 development will not be completed as the radar manufacturer is bankrupt, the optics manufacturer is incompetent, and the engine maker commits fraud.

 

[luckyy]

Russians make Yakhont, which is the same thing. They entered the Brahmos JV because India wouldn't buy it any other way. They never had any intention of buying it. Much the same as MiG-35.

Brahmos has no order book except India, MiG-35 development will not be completed as the radar manufacturer is bankrupt, the optics manufacturer is incompetent, and the engine maker commits fraud.

brahmos has only $3bn of indian order out of $13bn...clearly means rest $10bn are from outside india....
BrahMos order book swells to $13 billion - The Economic Times

coming to MIG-35.... They might also like to entered the MIG-35 JV because India wouldn't buy it any other way.

and thereafter , india can make a killing at export market with mig-35 , like the brahmos..

 

[death.by.chocolate]

For anyone with an eye it does not appear impressive. The Hornet has been whooped by MiG-29, Rafale and F-22s. MiG-29s of the Luftwaffe and Rafale were having a field-day with it back in the early part of this decade. The Super Hornet was whooped by Rafale at JTFEX 2008... excerpts from AFM article...

Lt Mike Tremel, pilot of VFA-31 "Tomcatters") comments for Rafale M:

"A highly maneuverable fighter with an incredible capacity to point its nose in every direction in the sky."

A French pilot's (pilot of 12F) comments for F/A-18E:

"A great bombing aircraft, but not a fighter for dogfighting... Its acceleration capability in the high angle of incidence is not good...Rafale is definitely the more nimble one."

Typical Rafale fanbooi shenanigans or perhaps you're just deluded, lets examine your claim

The Hornet has been whooped by MiG-29

Examine the below video, starting 1.32 LCDR Jeff "Caesar" Czerewkg describes how he got inside a turning MIG-29 and rained bullets into the MIG's cockpit.
The German Luftwaffe pilot flying the MIG was a veteran of several DACT missions while LCDR Czerewkg had 30 flying hour in the Hornet before he went to Germany. Oh! pay close attention to the Alpha read out on the F-18 HUD, and do let me know why the alpha on the Rafale is FLCS restricted and what is the set limit on deployed Rafale's.

I guess your claim of 'whooped by MIG-29' doesn't stand up to close scrutiny.


Not unlike the other garbage you spew here, for instance several months ago
you posted some nonsense about about a Rafale achieving a lock on a Raptor at the ATLC exercises held by UAE in Al Dhafr.
I had a good laugh and but I let it pass, I didn't want to make you look silly and ruin your credibility. But then you had to push your luck by mocking an unfortunate Canadian pilot.

During an official press conference the commanding officer of the French Rafale detachment at Al Dhafra, Colonel Fabrice Glandclaudron, claimed that in six within-visual-range 'dogfight' engagements with the F-22A, only one resulted in the virtual destruction of a Rafale He said the other four engagements were 'inconclusive', or terminated due to a lack of fuel, or approaching the pre-determined height limit. It was subsequently hinted by French sources that, had they been allowed to simulate the use of their Mica missiles, the Rafale would have gained victories over the USAF fighters.

The USAF refused to comment directly about the French claims, though the 27th Fighter Squadron's project officer for the F-22 deployment, Major John Rogers, told Arabian Aerospace: "I don't remember the fights quite that way. In any case, we leave claims and counter-claims to the debrief."

Lt Col Lansing Pilch, commander of the 27th, and of the F-22 deployment to Al Dhafra, was categoric in stating his view of the Raptor's performance during the exercise. He confirmed that the six Raptors flew undefeated, against all opponents. Pilch said: "In every test we did, the Raptors just blew the competition out of the water." He did praise the Rafale, however. "It is a good aircraft, combining avionics with manoeuvrability. I was impressed – it's on a par with the USAF's F-15s and F-16s, at least."

Arabian Aerospace - Raptor rules the desert roost

"Blew the competition out of the water" and "at par with legacy USAF fighters", the French are desperate to sell the Rafale and in their desperation they've resorted to deception and false claims.

Lt Col Lansing Pilch was being kind when he said the Rafale is just at par with legacy American jets, for a fighter designed decades after the F-15 and F-16 that's embarrassing.:emot15:

The French desperately need 75% in international sales to sustain the program as was done with the Mirage. And in their desperation, they are prepared to give up their obsolete technology to India for a 10 -12 B$.

But the French themselves don't have kind words for the Rafale describing RBE2 as "fatally flawed" and the OSF Optronique Secteur Frontal as "obsolete" little wonder the RSAF walked away from the Rafale in a hurry and purchased legacy F-16's instead.:happy_2:

There have, however, been increasingly critical comments about Rafale from members of the National Assembly's Finance and Defence Commissions, and there have been reports of disagreements between Dassault and DGA about cost increases and obsolescence. According to Defence Analysis (p.17, Vol 8.No.12 December 2005) Dassault have called the RBE2 radar 'fatally flawed' alleging that its range was "inadequate" and averring that the Rafale therefore relied on AWACS support to overcome this. The DGA also described Rafale's OSF ("Optronique Secteur Frontal") as "obsolescent" and production has been cut back to just 48 units, rather than the planned number, which was to have been sufficient to equip all F1 and F2 versions.

Electronic Aviation - Dassault Rafale - Problems

I do hope Rafale wins in India then the truth about the Rafale will finally be known.

And yes, you still haven't answered my questions from the previous post. But I'll pose one more question for you why is the Rafale's delta wing not a one piece composite construction? Clearly this is one of the greatest advantage of a delta wing design and the one piece delta wing was the X-32's strongest selling points. A one piece delta wing is cheap and enhances the strength and survivability of the air frame and yet the Rafale sports a less sturdy two piece wing joined at the fuselage - why?

 

[Armand2REP]

brahmos has only $3bn of indian order out of $13bn...clearly means rest $10bn are from outside india....
BrahMos order book swells to $13 billion - The Economic Times[/url

I have my eyes to look at no orders.. http://en.rian.ru/search/

coming to MIG-35.... They might also like to entered the MIG-35 JV because India wouldn't buy it any other way.

and thereafter , india can make a killing at export market with mig-35 , like the brahmos.

There is no JV to sell MiG-35. MRCA is not about export rights.

coming to MIG-35....

you have your french eyes to look at it .....

I have my French eyes to look at a MiG-29. They don't even have a complete tech demo aircraft.

 

[luckyy]

I have my French eyes to look at a MiG-29. They don't even have a complete tech demo aircraft.

everybody has his own eyes , they think their is the best and others aircraft can't even fly..

 

[death.by.chocolate]

What has the formation of the P-G clouds at leading edge or after/at trailing edge has to do with performance of an air-craft?. And how formation of PG-clouds at leading edge indicates that the aerodynamic design is bad??.

Here is another image of an F-18 experiencing a Prandtl–Glauert singularity. Notice how PG is experienced further behind the wing in this picture. The difference, there are no external stores on this F-18 (clean configuration) as opposed to the previous F-18 image in what appears to be a CAT-III configuration. The external store increase drag, drag causes friction and friction results in aerodynamic heating of the surrounding air resulting in the effect described by the PG singularity to occur closer to the wing in my previous post.

It hints at a more aerodynamically efficient design, not surprising considering the F-18 spent a considerable amount of time in a NASA wind tunnel and benefited from considerable NASA expertise.

In close combat, acceleration is more important than top speed in addition the Hornet benefits from an exceptional engine that is extremely responsive has NO after burner limit a fuel controller that allows unlimited throttle movement in all phases permitting engine snaps from idle to full AB. See the previous video of the Canadian Hornet demo I posted you will see the pilot cycle the engine rapidly starting at 3:10 as it appears to float and sustain pitch up indefinitely. As opposed to the Rafale demo performed in what appears to be constant MIL power.

 

[luckyy]

Examine the below video, starting 1.32 LCDR Jeff "Caesar" Czerewkg describes how he got inside a turning MIG-29 and rained bullets into the MIG's cockpit.
The German Luftwaffe pilot flying the MIG was a veteran of several DACT missions while LCDR Czerewkg had 30 flying hour in the Hornet before he went to Germany.

so a F-18 pilot with 30 hours experience defeated a veteran of German Luftwaffe flying the MIG -39..

can't you make it more funny !!

 

[death.by.chocolate]

so a F-18 pilot with 30 hours expeience defeated a veteran o German Luftwaffe flying the MIG -35..

can't you make it more funny !!

Do you even know how difficult the MIG-29A is to fly? The Russians were great at designing planes but their man machine interface was seriously retarded.
They have since corrected the deficiencies of the MIG-29A in later models such as the MIG-29M.

I was referring to MIG-29A's not MIG-35

 

[Daredevil]

Here is another image of an F-18 experiencing a Prandtl–Glauert singularity. Notice how PG is experienced further behind the wing in this picture. The difference, there are no external stores on this F-18 (clean configuration) as opposed to the previous F-18 image in what appears to be a CAT-III configuration. The external store increase drag, drag causes friction and friction results in aerodynamic heating of the surrounding air resulting in the effect described by the PG singularity to occur closer to the wing in my previous post.

It hints at a more aerodynamically efficient design, not surprising considering the F-18 spent a considerable amount of time in a NASA wind tunnel and benefited from considerable NASA expertise.

I'm still not convinced by the fact that location of P-G singularity formation is a function of aerodynamic design. The P-G cloud that you saw at the leading edge of Rafale is may be due to the fact that it is a different aerodynamic design (Rafale being a delta wing) from F-18 and not necessarily due to poor design.

 

[smartindian]

@ death by chocolate
you alway post a link which is not neutral, you are telling a 4th gen aircraft is better than 4.5 gen aircraft, both of which are in compitation, if it was so good it should be selected, why this rumors that ef or rafale will be selected. then you are telling we are going to purchase a aircraft which is more costly and performance is inferior to your american plane. (note LM as said that f-16in is more capable than any other f-16)
you alway tell other aircraft cannot match with american aircraft show some simulation proof.

 

[luckyy]

They have since corrected the deficiencies of the MIG-29A in later models such as the MIG-29M.

so , what's the latest....

has a F-18 30 hour experience pilot still defeating the MIG-29M flying by a veteran of German Luftwaffe ..

 

[luckyy]

F/A-18 vs MiG-29 Dogfight

april 2002 , swiss air force invites the german Luftwaffe mig-29 for two week exercise...

mig-29 had locked F-18 , every single time...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Russian deigned MIG-29 to be best Dog-fighter, Where as US make world class Radars and BVRs..
What Indian need is now a good A2A fighter a better A2G Aircraft..

1. Rafale ( With better Engines i am expecting better result )..
2. F-18 ( With Better Engines )
3. Typhoon..

 

[FearlessTiger]

The operational costs of the Eurofighter are significantly larger than expected, with the price of € 73,992 per flight hour, almost double the initially anticipated.

The Tornado, more expensive aircraft of the Luftwaffe, it costs € 43,000 per hour. Much more expensive than previously thought, are also flights of the Air Force, made for German industry. In February 2009, three Eurofighter participated in Aero India 2009 show, because India plans to buy 126 new combat aircraft and Eurofighter is in the competition.

The Luftwaffe requested € 180,000 and the remainder was paid by the taxpayer. The trip was part of the normal flight program, so the Air Force justified the cost.

This year, the Eurofighter is being tested in India. A aeronave é da Luftwaffe novamente. The aircraft of the Luftwaffe again.

AIR POWER'S NOTE: The German journalist divided the total of € 7.1 million per 96 hours, which gives € 73,992 / h. But he forgot to divide the value by three planes, which would give € 24,664 euros / h.Still, it's a high cost for a game, maybe the total includes other costs of production in India.



Can anyone HELP me to find out correct operational cost of MMRCA contendars?

 

[luckyy]

Russian deigned MIG-29 to be best Dog-fighter, Where as US make world class Radars and BVRs..
What Indian need is now a good A2A fighter a better A2G Aircraft..

1. Rafale ( With better Engines i am expecting better result )..
2. F-18 ( With Better Engines )
3. Typhoon..

F-18 is the best among the mmrca contenders when it comes to ground strick capabilities..