MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

[mayfair]

No need to get into a pissing contest when there is no contest.

Keep telling yourself that dear..

 

[Armand2REP]

Keep telling yourself that dear..

You want me to list all the incidents involving Eurofighter? It can fill a page.

 

[mayfair]

You want me to list all the incidents involving Eurofighter? It can fill a page.

So can I with Rafale, Mirage 2000, F16, F-18, CdG...what's the point? I'll end up in the very pissing contest which I fervently disagree with. I may not be as informed as most members here, but in order to educate myself on the issues, I have attempted to gather as much information as I can, while keeping an open mind. In my admittedly limited wisdom on such matters, I would like to believe that I have gathered a fair bit to help make an informed judgment that the truth lies somewhere between your condescending offerings on Rafale, Garuda, RedFlag et al (in no particular order) and the opposing hyperbole.

 

[neo29]

In todays world, IAF which is pursuing such a huge order must look beyond plane that meets minimum requirement. There have been exercises of different fighters competing against each other. Their results should be taken into consideration.

This is a scenario/example so dont react or comment on it. Lets assume that India chooses sh-18 or Mig-35 and down the line our hostile neighbor buys EF or Rafale. In what state will it put the establishment and the public. We will be like, we had opportunity to buy the best and we gave up coz the planes we bought "meets our requirement and least cost".

That doesnt mean you spend money like water. But if a product will give you that muscle power which you dont want your enemies to have its worth the cost.

 

[wild goose]

Swiss Abort Major Fighter Jet Purchase

The tender launched in January 2008 led to a fierce battle between European aerospace group EADS's Eurofighter, French firm Dassault's Rafale and the Gripen built by Sweden's Saab.

Swiss Abort Major Fighter Jet Purchase - Defense News

Indian MMRCA gets juicier.

 

[vikramrana_1812]

India's MMRCA jet selection to be completed by year end


ShareThe Indian Air Force (IAF) has submitted a report on the trials it has conducted on six combat jets it is evaluating for an order for 126 aircraft and expects the selection of the fighter within a year.
The IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, is quoted by India Strategic defence magazine (..:: India Strategic ::.. Home Page: The authoritative monthly on Defence and Strategic Affairs.) as saying that the exhaustive field evaluation trials (FET) report covered all the aircraft in contention, and that once the selection has been made, he expected the chosen jet to be in service within three years, say by 2014.
Naik also disclosed that after completing the combat jet trials, the IAF had also completed the field trials of utility helicopters and combat helicopters. The trials of the heavy-lift helicopters were, meanwhile, in the final phase.
'The next four years are crucial but by 2014, IAF would have all the new aircraft and helicopters well in place as part of its transformation process now underway,' India Strategic quotes Naik as saying in its coming issue.
Each system is being acquired along with its training simulators.
As for the combat jet selection process, the air chief gave no indication as to how each of the six aircraft in the fray performed during the trials. He only observed that the IAF had completed its assignment and submitted the report to the defence ministry July-end – on time as promised.
The Russian Mig-35 (initially designated Mig-29M2), Europe's Eurofighter Typhoon, the Swedish Gripen, the French Rafale, and the US Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Lockheed Martin's F-16IN Super Viper are in the fray. The IAF tender is for 126 aircraft with an option for 63 more.
As for the combat helicopters, Naik said that both the Russian
Mi-28 and US Boeing Apache AH 64D had been tested in India. Some weapon trials are due to be conducted in the country of origin. The IAF had issued a request for proposal for 22 combat helicopters to replace its ageing Soviet vintage Mi-35s.
Trials of Boeing's Chinook CH 47F heavy-lift helicopter had also been completed, while that of Russian Mi-26 were likely to be held this month. The IAF needs 15 heavy-lift helicopters to replace and augment its ageing fleet of half-a-dozen obsolete Mi-26s acquired in the mid-1980s.
Trials of the utility helicopters, needed both for the IAF and the Indian Army, are also over. The Eurocopter Fennec 555 and Russia's Kamov 226 are the two contenders. The two services have tendered for a combined order of 197 helicopters.
All aircraft and helicopters are required to operate in the varied hot, humid, desert and high altitude environment of India, particularly to support the deployments in the Himalayan region.
The IAF wants to minimize its inventory of its flying machines to reduce their maintenance costs on the one hand and to increase their operational availability on the other.
Naik said that appropriate infrastructure and communication nodes were also being created as part of the IAF's transformation process now underway.
The IAF aims to have 45 combat squadrons – approximately 800 aircraft – by 2022. Of these, it is already set to acquire more than 270 Sukhoi Su-30MKI air dominance aircraft from Russia. These include 42 aircraft being ordered through India's state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, which is making the aircraft under the licence and transfer of technology (ToT) routes.

Latest Defence news: India's MMRCA jet selection to be completed by year end

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its not MIG-35 but a Mig-29, Its wonderful..

Gripan and Mig-29

Gripans and MIG-29s

Rafale..

.................................................................

 

[vijay jagannathan]

every aircraft in its development phase not to mention service phase has crashed except LCA depsite India making a 2 generation leap. how long will LCA hold on to this enviable record is anybody's guess. but if the slate remains clean boy that is really something.

 

[Daredevil]

Angle of Attack: The MMRCA Mess !

 

[JHA]

A lot of mistakes are there in that chart..Since when F-16IN costs $ 30 mil. and Mig-35 $63 Mil...?

 

[nrj]

F-18 SuperHornet - A workhorse for all roles

 

[nrj]

F-18 SuperHornet - A workhorse for all roles

 

[neo29]

MMRCA contenders yet to be shortlisted


India is yet to shortlist contenders for supplying 126 fighter jets under the $11-billion medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal. ''At the moment, the Offsets Technical Committee—headed by the special secretary of defence production and including members from the defence research and development organisation (DRDO), Indian Air Force (IAF) and the ministry of defence (MoD)—is evaluating technical offsets proposals and sending their observations to all the six contenders," officials privy to the process told FE.

The MoD can decide on shortlisting the contenders only when the technical offsets evaluation committee report and the field trial report are complete," they said.

Based on the observations, vendors would submit fresh and revised offsets proposals, which will take a minimum of two months. After that, the contenders will be evaluated again and the recommendations will be sent for approval to the MoD, sources said, adding, "after it goes to the Cabinet Committee on Security for a final decision, government-to-government negotiations will be held in order to get additional benefits for the country."

Lockheed Martin F-16IN, Boeing F/A-18, Dassault Rafale, EADS Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Gripen and Russian MiG-35 are contending for the 126-aircraft programme. The Indian Air Force will invite different contenders to discuss flight evaluation reports once the field trials are complete.

The contenders, along with their partners, have also been invited by the MoD to present their offsets proposals. So far, the IAF has had a meeting with Lockheed Martin and Dassault of Rafale.

According to sources, "Vendors complying with the rules, the defence procurement policy and technical offsets will ultimately be considered. Also, the lowest bidder and the designated L1 will be selected as the MMRCA." For the first time, IAF will consider the 'life-cycle costs', rather than just the lowest bid.

MMRCA contenders yet to be shortlisted

 

[neo29]

India Rules Out Integration of BrahMos Missile on MMRCA

The high-profile "medium multi-role combat aircraft" (MMRCA), 126 of which are being purchased by the IAF at a mind-boggling price tag of Rs 42,000 crore, has been ruled out for integration with the supersonic BrahMos missile. BrahMos Aerospace, the Indo-Russian joint venture, has successfully developed the low-altitude supersonic BrahMos cruise missile that is quicker than any other missile in the world.
Having a speed of 2.8 mach, BrahMos, with a range of 290 km, is four times faster than American Tomahawk cruise missile, widely used by the USA during its offensive against Iraq. BrahMos Aerospace is now working to develop a hypersonic missile having a speed of over 6 mach.

Addressing a press conference on the sidelines of the Space Expo here today, A Sivathanu Pillai, CEO and MD of BrahMos Aerospace, said the new hypersonic missile would be ready in another five years. The warhead of the hypersonic missile would be relatively smaller, he said and added that because of its speed, the hypersonic missile would hit the target with a devastating impact nevertheless.
Pillai said following the induction of the supersonic BrahMos in the Army and the Navy, they were now working to develop a supersonic missile for the IAF. He said the missile would be integrated with the Russian Sukhoi 30 aircraft. Pillai said $50 million, split between the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and its Russian partner on a 50.5 and 49.5 per cent basis, had been allocated for developing the air force version of the missile to be used for air-to-ground attacks Modifications in the Sukhoi aircraft for integrating the missile would be carried out by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) at its facility at Nashik, Pillai said.

Blueprint for the changes would be drawn up by the Sukhoi design bureau in Russia, Pillai said. The flight-test of the air force variant of the missile would take place in 2012, he added. On the issue of integrating the missile with the MMRCA, which the IAF was in the process of acquiring, Pillai said medium aircraft were not being considered for firing the missile. "Sukhoi, being a big aircraft, is ideal for BrahMos," he said.

India Rules Out Integration of BrahMos Missile on MMRCA

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Eurofighter-hour flight twice as expensive as expected

Air Force Eurofighter: His flight hours are twice as expensive as expected.

Eurofighter-hour flight twice as expensive as expected

Additional anger could result in the Eurofighter. Additional anger could result in the Eurofighter. The operating costs for the aircraft are to SPIEGEL information significantly higher than expected: With the price is € 73 992 per flight hour, almost twice as high as originally planned. The operating costs for the aircraft are to SPIEGEL information significantly higher than expected: With the price is € 73,992 per flight hour, almost twice as high as originally planned. The "Tornado", the most expensive aircraft in the Air Force, costs only € 43 000 per hour. The "Tornado", the most expensive aircraft in the Air Force, costs only € 43,000 per hour.

Much more expensive than previously thought so too are the flights of the Air Force on behalf of German industry. Much more expensive than previously thought so too are the flights of the Air Force on behalf of German industry. In February 2009, three Eurofighter attended the air show Aero India 2009 in part. In February 2009, Eurofighter attended the air show Aero India 2009 part in three. India plans to purchase 126 new fighter aircraft. India plans to purchase 126 new fighter aircraft. The Eurofighter is in competition. The Eurofighter is in competition. The promotional flight lasted 96 hours and it cost 7.1 million €. The promotional flight lasted 96 hours and it cost 7.1 million €. 180 000 € asked the Air Force charged. € 180,000 asked the Air Force charged.

The rest is paid by the taxpayer. The rest is paid by the taxpayer. The trip was part of the normal flight program have been the Air Force justifies the cost. The trip was part of the normal flight program have been the Air Force justifies the cost. This year, the Eurofighter is being tested in India. This year, the Eurofighter is being tested in India. The aircraft is the Air Force again. The aircraft is the Air Force again.

With the price is € 73 992 per flight hour, almost twice as high as originally planned. The "Tornado", the most expensive aircraft in the air force, costs only € 43 000 per hour.

Google Ãœbersetzer


What you guys think????

 

[nrj]

Eurofighter-hour flight twice as expensive as expected
Google Ãœbersetzer

What you guys think????

EFT is hell expensive. Only hope was due to the fall in exchange rate. Even if IAF orders 200 of these I don't think any substantial price cut will appear. F18-SH is scoring above EFT in these areas.

 

[death.by.chocolate]

More like Failing Crash mode...

What are you insinuating funny man? what's the alpha limit on the Rafale funny man?

 

[smartindian]

^^^ first tell me what is alpha limit is

 

[gogbot]

^^^ first tell me what is alpha limit is

Alpha is Angle of attack.

Your free to read up on the internet for the understand of what is an Alpha but is you just wanted context

Some military aircraft are able to achieve very high angles of attack. This provides the aircraft with great agility. A famous military example is Pugachev's Cobra（combat maneuver).

Using a variety of additional aerodynamic surfaces — known as high-lift devices — like leading edge extensions (leading edge wing root extensions), fighter aircraft have increased the potential flyable alpha from about 20° to over 45°

To put that in perspective.

Tejas has an alpha of ~24

Su-30 MKI has an alpha exceeding 60

 

[death.by.chocolate]

^^^ first tell me what is alpha limit is

HUD symbology ALPHA or α means angle of attack.
See snapshot of the F/A-18 HUD display shows an AoA of 20.3,
it is an indication of maneuverability (pitch) nose pointing ability
especially useful in WVR.

An out of control falling leaf maneuver or "alpha hang-up" occurs due to
aggressive maneuvering and is a phenomenon experienced by F/A 18 pilots
since the AoA on the Hornet OR Super Hornet is not limited by the flight computer as is done
on other aircrafts such as the F-16, Rafale and MIG's.

The problem hasn't been encountered with the F/A 18 Super Hornet after extensive
design changes and testing involving a team of NASA scientists.

It is disappointing to see a member make jokes about an air crash just to score cheap points.:special20: