MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

[vijay jagannathan]

Though MKI has that capability, it will be dead meat before it enters chinese airspace. PAF can detect MKI within 30 seconds, it wont be an issue at all for PLAAF. IAF can only defend its air-space from Chinese attack until Paf-Fa becomes a reality.

come on counter this one rahul

 

[SHASH2K2]

come on counter this one rahul

A sukhoi loaded with Brahmos need not go very deep inside Chinese territory . And also which Chinese Airplane will be able to counter SU 30 ? SU 30 MKI is better customize for air attack role compared to Chinese SU 30 MKK .

 

[SHASH2K2]

One more advertisement .

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/08/gripens-32-page-supplement-with-latest.html

 

[Armand2REP]

Look at page 17 of the Gripen International, "Defence purchases should be a matter of blah blah, not expenditure."

You would think Saab would be trying to advertise how cheap it is, now they are trying to get you not to focus on cost. That is odd...

 

[Agantrope]

Look at page 17 of the Gripen International, "Defence purchases should be a matter of blah blah, not expenditure."

You would think Saab would be trying to advertise how cheap it is, now they are trying to get you not to focus on cost. That is odd...

Some Divine force is keeping this thread very busy and i am very much bored to see different advertisement in the different channels like Hamam and Chintol Soaps, I need some more time to drink water

 

[neo29]

In the recent days after IAF submitted its report and Times now report, the spurge of activity among contenders is seen

MIg-35 declines the Times now report and says its very much in the competition.
LM also rubbish reports saying its best plane for IAF
Sh-18 launches campaign to declare new technology and features in SH-18
Gripen launches a independent report in a magazine.

The so called short listed contenders EF and Rafale are the only ones who are quiet. Wonder why? Will we be seeing their campaign in coming days too? Infact if they keep quiet it will show that they may be really shortlisted and dont care about all this media talk.

 

[nrj]

The shortlisting reports indeed seems to be rubbish -

"We have submitted a voluminous report on the performance of the six bidding aircraft for the medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract. The report is yet to be approved by the Defence Ministry. The performance, cost and political considerations will all be factors in deciding the winning bid," IAF sources said here.

Mission objectives for the aircraft, national security considerations and international relations were cited by the sources as the "political factors" that could determine which way the contract would go.

"We have gone exactly according to the Request for Proposals (RFP) and have set 643 parameters or Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQRs) which the aircraft were evaluated against for compliance. We have submitted an objective report on the compliance and non-compliance of the six aircraft," the sources said.

The sources made it clear that the IAF had not created a "merit list" and had only given its reports evaluating each of the aircraft against the ASQRs. "The process of FET has been so rigorous and meticulous that the trial methodology and report is probably the best in the world and could be a model for other air forces for conducting their FETs for their contracts," the sources said. Noting that none of the aircraft had complied fully with all the parameters set by the IAF, they said.

Source: PTI

 

[thakur_ritesh]

At 18 billion this may be the biggest warplane deal in history?? Does anyone know a bigger warplane deal??

here goes something absolutely spectacular. a few snippets from that article:

US, Saudi sale, with helicopters, said to approach $60bn
by Bloomberg on Friday, 13 August 2010

A proposed US weapons sale to Saudi Arabia of Boeing Co F-15 fighter jets also includes as many as 132 Boeing Apache attack helicopters and United Technologies UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters that bring the total value of the package to around $60 billion, according to a government official familiar with the plan.

The package includes 84 F-15s at a cost of $30 billion and helicopter sales totalling about $30 billion that include spare parts, training simulators, long term logistics support and some munitions.

that should make it the single largest single aircraft deal ever. further:

The Saudis would buy about 72 UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters and as many as 60 AH-64D Longbow Apaches, the official said.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/594817-us-saudi-sale-with-helicopters-said-to-approach-60bn

 

[Neil]

The package includes 84 F-15s at a cost of $30 billion and helicopter sales totalling about $30 billion that include spare parts, training simulators, long term logistics support and some munitions.

84 F-15 for 30billion...they are more costlier than F-22 raptor or even EF and Rafale[both better fighters than F-15]

wont there be problems...i mean Israel will definitely oppose it for sure.....

 

[Daredevil]

Gripen's 32-Page Supplement With Latest Edition Of INDIA TODAY Magazine

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35842834/Gripen-IN-Future-is-Made-in-India

 

[arya]

guys let the result come out

 

[Agantrope]

The package includes 84 F-15s at a cost of $30 billion and helicopter sales totalling about $30 billion that include spare parts, training simulators, long term logistics support and some munitions.

That's Damn funny
$350+M for a F-15 :emot15:, Arabs have gone nuts or this news from a funny website?

Even Silent Eagle may reach the price as 130(+200 maintenance)

 

[Daredevil]

Thales' AESA developments for the Rafale, present & future (pgs 32-33):

http://www.textbooks.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=416132257&o=int&prev=si

 

[Daredevil]

Lockheed Pipes In: F-16IN Has Great Growth Prospects

The American teens are working overtime to battle deep perceptions that their wares -- the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and F-16IN Super Viper -- are essentially old aircraft (i.e. not modern) with a few new systems bunged in, and are basically platforms in the twilight of their operational lives, being replaced as they are with new assets by US forces. Boeing tried dealing with that perception a few days ago when it revealed that India was being offered something called the International Roadmap as part of the MMRCA competition. Arch-rival Lockheed-Martin articulated something similar recently, which they sent over. Posting it in full:

"While the Super Viper is a new design just for India, it is also the starting point for future growth. The F-16 has a well documented history of continuous evolution in capability. This is very important since the F-16IN is inherently designed for a long service life (in excess of 6500 flight hours). During this service life the desire will likely arise for significant upgradation to add capability for expanded mission roles, improved combat capability, and reduced operating costs. There are two primary enablers to this evolution: technology advancements and a proactive upgradation strategy.

Technology Advancements. The Super Viper is on the cutting edge of fighter aircraft technology with its 5th gen-based AESA radar, fiber optics data network, large flat panel color displays and the latest precision weapons. Starting now the Super Viper has inherent growth capacity due to ample unused space and large processing reserves. Nevertheless, emerging technologies will enable even greater capability. The history of technology advancement, especially for digital systems, shows that this added capability comes in increasingly smaller packages with lower power requirements. (Today's mobile phone includes web browsing, games, and video in a smaller size than yesterday's voice-only device.) The F-16 has demonstrated this many times across seven major block changes. This includes five generations of core avionics, five radar versions, ten different EW suites, and dozens of new weapons without changing the aircraft structure or size. To take advantage of these new technologies the Super Viper has a growth-oriented architecture for adding new systems and capabilities. Maximum use has been made of commercial standards and technology such as processing, software and networking.

Upgradation Strategy. The U.S. Air Force along with the European operators of the F-16 have been jointly executing a long term continuous upgradation strategy since the beginning of the F-16 program. As part of the overall sustainment philosophy, this strategy recognizes the need for continuous improvement and it defines a step-wise approach to keeping the F-16 on the forefront of war fighting capability. There are F-16s flying today in the U.S. and in Europe that are 30 years old but they have the same systems and capabilities as a new Block 50 F-16. At the heart of the strategy is a long term capability improvement roadmap which is synchronized with technology-driven improvements in weapons, sensors, displays, and computing. These key technology areas have their own improvement roadmaps which dovetail with the aircraft capability improvement roadmap. The roadmap is implemented through a series of software releases and hardware updates. For the U.S. and European Air Forces there is typically a major software release each 18 months. This allows for balance between rapid fielding of new capability and time required to assimilate the new capabilities into operational use. Major hardware updates are likewise spaced out to optimize fleet management while aircraft are being inducted into the modification program.

In summary, the growth potential for the Super Viper is much more than just the currently available spare capacity. Combining the latest technologies with a long term continuous upgradation strategy will keep the F-16IN relevant from the day it is first inducted until it is finally retired from service."

 

[Agantrope]

I would like to bring a post from our respectd member Rage

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/sh...hick-amp-fast!?p=167790&viewfull=1#post167790

IAF Mirage 2000 crashes
September 23 2004 at 3:22 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mirage 2000 crashes after take off, pilot safe
Gwalior, Sept. 23 (PTI): A frontline Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft of the Indian Air Force crashed soon after take off from the airbase here today but the Pilot, Squadron Leader HS Gill, ejected safely.

The aircraft, which left the airbase for a practice interception sortie at 12.45 pm, developed problem with the undercarriage with a wheel falling off soon after take off, an IAF spokesman said.

Following the emergency, "the pilot undertook a planned ejection, burning out the fuel and then pointing it towards uninhabited area near the base," he said.

There was no casualty on the ground and the pilot who was picked up by rescue helicopters was reported to be completely safe and unscathed, the spokesman said.

A Court of Inquiry has been ordered into the crash, he said.

The French-made Mirage 2000s are the frontline aircraft of the IAF and have had a very safe flying record.

This is the fourth crash of the multi-mission fighters built by French Dassault company and inducted into the IAF in 1987.

A Mirage 2000 crashed during training sorties just two months after induction. Another crashed killing its pilot Wing Commander Joe Bakshi, during the Air Force Day air show over Palam technical area in 1988 and the last fighter crashed over the Gwalior airbase in 1994.

Mirages played a crucial role during the 1999 Kargil crises and the IAF is in the process of acquiring 125 upgraded Mirage 2000-5 version of the fighters.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-122434541.html

What about the highlighted part?

 

[ZOOM]

I think, before the advent of our India Shining and following Economic boom, Mirage-2000s were very high on the wishlist of IAF. If not for a political system then we may have Mirage-2000 as our frontline MRCA as it was major liking of IAF even more then MKI as Price difference played an important role in the selection of later.

 

[StealthSniper]

If we chose the Mirage 2000 aircraft it would have been much better for the IAF in a number of ways. Imagine if we had 126 - 200 + (50 in IAF right now) Mirage 2000 in our inventory and they were the latest 2000-9 variant. We would have had a very capable single engine fighter which we are already familiar with and it could have incorporated technologies that are in the Rafale. But of course we have to delay things and look where we are at now.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The Mirage is a great plane but I think the monkey wrench was thrown into this by USA who decided to gift F-16'S to Pakistan, it made India up the ante and spend more.

 

[StealthSniper]

The Mirage is a great plane but I think the monkey wrench was thrown into this by USA who decided to gift F-16'S to Pakistan, it made India up the ante and spend more.

Well if we are going to spend more we better get something that will easily dominate the F-16 (block 52 and maybe block 60) and be able to keep a decent technology edge for the next decade or two. And for me it's still Rafale and Eurofighter.

 

[Daredevil]

If we chose the Mirage 2000 aircraft it would have been much better for the IAF in a number of ways. Imagine if we had 126 - 200 + (50 in IAF right now) Mirage 2000 in our inventory and they were the latest 2000-9 variant. We would have had a very capable single engine fighter which we are already familiar with and it could have incorporated technologies that are in the Rafale. But of course we have to delay things and look where we are at now.

I think MRCA happened for the good. Mirage-2000 is a 4th gen fighter and the scope for upgrades is much less and also very expensive if you see the quote from Dassault for the existing Mirage-2000s. MRCA fighter should be able to defeat any fighter that PLAAF will throw at us. Keeping in mind that PLAAF is going for a large number of J-10s in addition to existing Su-30s it is prudent that we have a fighter which gives upper hand over PLAAF. I think Typhoon, F-18 and Rafale meet the bill for this purpose and Mirage-2000 with upgrades is no longer that effective to take on PLAAF fighters in China.