MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

[vikramrana_1812]

F/A 18 Super Hornet will fit the bill for IAF, says U.S

As the race for the IAF bid to procure 126 Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft enters the home stretch, the United States Navy vouched for the versatility of the F/A-18 Super Hornet, one of the six aircraft in competition, with features closer to a fifth-generation fighter aircraft.

The Indian Air Force is scheduled to complete flight evaluation trials during the month with the last of the six competitors. The Super Hornet from the Boeing stable has gone through all three phases of trial across different weather conditions in India and weapons at the manufacturers' locations.

The Naval Air Station, Oceana here in the U.S. southeast coast, has under its wing 17 operating squadrons of these fighter jets including 10 Super Hornet squadrons that fly from both the land base and the aircraft carrier.

Emphasising that F/A18 would continue to be the U.S. Navy's workhorse even after the induction of the futuristic F-35, Cmdr Mike Gusko said the new version would complement the existing fleet of Super Hornets, which would continue to serve well beyond 2035.

He said the aircraft could operate from dry, wet and icy runways, an ability fitting in with the overall requirements of the IAF.

The Block-II aircraft (Super Hornet) comes with ability to operate in all-weather providing air defence superiority, precision attack, close-air support, and an advanced radar for weapons system.

Apart from combat manoeuvrability and unlimited angle of attack, which its test pilots demonstrated to the visiting group, it had the active electronically scanned array radar (AESA), the Navy official said. The AESA radar is being upgraded and the version would be on offer.

The Commanding Officer of the Center for Aviation Technical Training Unit, Cdr John Wood, said the NAS, Oceana facility also had both maintenance and training establishment, with the latter running courses for fresh recruits to advanced level staff of varying durations.

The simulator-assisted training establishment brings the technicians closest to understanding the intricate wiring pattern and design, breaking it into segments and guiding them through electronic and printed manuals.

Bret Marks, programme manager for F/A 18 India, said the IAF would get two of the training units in India as part of the deal with the option of buying a third one and an offer to train trainers here. Of the 126 aircraft, the IAF is looking for 80 single-seaters and the rest with tandem operated cockpit. Boeing offers F/A-18 E in the first category and F/A-18 F in the other.

 

[nrj]

MMRCA trial report awaits nod, decision may be political

NEW DELHI (PTI): India is now closer to finalising a USD 10 billion contract for 126 fighter aircraft with IAF submitting a report on the flight evaluation of six contenders for the 'mother of all deals', though top sources Thursday said the decision could be "political".

"We have submitted a voluminous report on the performance of the six bidding aircraft for the medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract. The report is yet to be approved by the Defence Ministry. The performance, cost and political considerations will all be factors in deciding the winning bid," IAF sources said here.

Mission objectives for the aircraft, national security considerations and international relations were cited by the sources as the "political factors" that could determine which way the contract would go.

With the Flight Evaluation Trial (FET) report of the six aircraft in the fray finalised, the Defence Ministry will soon open the commercial bids of the six global fighter jet manufacturers to identify the lowest bid.

American Lockheed Martin F-16IN and Boeing F/A-18, French D'Assault Rafale, European consortium EADS' Eurofighter Typhoons, Swedish SAAB Gripen and Russian MiG-35 are in the fray for the contract for which a tender was floated in August 2007.

"We have gone exactly according to the Request for Proposals (RFP) and have set 643 parameters or Air Staff Qualitative Requirements (ASQRs) which the aircraft were evaluated against for compliance. We have submitted an objective report on the compliance and non-compliance of the six aircraft," the sources said.

The sources made it clear that the IAF had not created a "merit list" and had only given its reports evaluating each of the aircraft against the ASQRs.

"The process of FET has been so rigorous and meticulous that the trial methodology and report is probably the best in the world and could be a model for other air forces for conducting their FETs for their contracts," the sources said.

Noting that none of the aircraft had complied fully with all the parameters set by the IAF, they said there were "varying degrees of compliance and non-compliance" by each of the contenders for the mega deal, estimated to be worth Rs 47000 crore in Indian currency.

They also refused to comment on the aircraft's suitability for the IAF, but said, "All platforms are top of the line aircraft."

To a query if more number of MMRCA, over and above the 126 stated in the current bids, could be ordered, the sources said the option of going in for an additional number was part of the tender documents, though a decision would be taken on it only after the current deal was through.

While F-16IN and Gripen are single engine platforms, the rest of the six contenders are twin-engine jets planes.

The sources pointed out that while single-engine aircraft was suitable for certain manoeuvres, the twin-engine jets had high survivability.

"However, there will be no preference expressed by the IAF on the basis of the number of engines in each of the platform, though low life cycle cost would be a factor," they said.

After the FETs of each aircraft, the respective original equipment manufacturers were clearly briefed on the results, as also holding 14 meetings with them on the life cycle costs of the aircraft, the sources said.

On the hi-tech Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars that the six bidders were offering and the technology transfer conditions, the sources said all the six bidders had, in their tender documents, assured compliance with the IAF's requirements for the MMRCA.

Asked about the commercial bids of the six firms that had expired in April this year, the sources said the companies had either submitted fresh documents or had validated their existing documents in July this year and these bids would be valid for upto two years.

The FETs were held in two parts between 2008 and 2009 -- while the flight trials were held in India in different climatic conditions, terrain and altitudes, the weapons trials were held in the country of the competing firms' choice.

While the contract itself is likely to be wrapped up sometime next year, the MMRCA is expected to join the IAF fleet sometime beginning 2017.

With obsolescence of its fleet at 45 per cent at present, the current IAF strength stood at 34 squadrons (over 640 aircraft). It will go down till about 2017 and would then rise up to reach 42 squadrons by 2022 when the obsolescence would be reduced to 25 per cent, the sources said.

By 2022, the IAF's major inventory of Russian origin MiG fleet would have been phased out and the then fleet would comprise of Sukhois, indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) 'Tejas', MMRCA, indigenous Medium Combat Aircraft (modelled on LCA) and fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) that India is developing jointly with the Russians.

Source

 

[vikramrana_1812]

F/A-18 as good as 5th gen: US Navy

The US Navy has compared the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet to fifth generation fighter aircraft, making a strong pitch for its selection in the 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) contest of the Indian Air Force (IAF).



A chart illustrating Commander Goska's point.
In presentations made last month to Indian journalists visiting the Naval Air Station, Oceana at Norfolk in Virginia, also the largest naval base in the world, Commander Mike Goska of the US Navy, compared the fighter to fifth generation combat aircraft like the F-35 and the F-22 and indicated that the US Navy plans for the F-35 to complement the Super Hornet.
The F-35 JSF is to complement US Navy Super Hornets.

Dr. Vivek Lall, Vice President and India Country Head, Boeing Defense, Space and Security, explains, "Many of the same technologies are common across all three of these next-generation fighters, and the Super Hornet is available today."

According to Goska, the US Navy intends to keep the aircraft in service beyond 2035. Indeed, the US Navy is currently in the process of placing an order for 124 F/A-18 Super Hornets, at a price that a Reuters report says would come to around US $5.3 billion in a multi-year deal with each aircraft coming to around US $40 million, not including US $10 million for 'government-furnished equipment', less than the price of US $ 57 million listed on a US Navy website.

But even though the size of the buy is similar, with the US Navy's 124 to the IAF MMRCA's 126, Boeing officials are unable to indicate whether this figure could be taken as an indicator of the price tag for India in the event of the aircraft winning the Indian contest, even as they failed to confirm the prices indicated for the US Navy in the report.

In the event of the Super Hornet becoming the MMRCA, the ensuing contract would be an FMS (Foreign Military Sale) between India and the United States, which would also provide the IAF the benefits of economies of scale. "Under the FMS system, the US DoD (Department of Defense) is committed to procuring FMS defense articles and services under the same contractual provisions used for its own procurements. This system is designed to acquire the required quality items at the lowest feasible price from qualified sources and to provide for contract administration. FMS and DoD orders are often consolidated to obtain economy-of-scale buys and therefore lower unit prices," says Lall.

"Under the FMS system, the foreign purchaser is charged a nominal fee for the contracting and administrative services provided by DoD. This fee is currently 3.8 per cent of the value of the contract and ensures that the DoD does not make a profit or take a loss on a Foreign Military Sale," he adds.

If the actual sale price is lower than than the estimate made in the Letter of Acceptance, then the unspent money would be returned to India as the US government is not allowed to make a profit on an FMS deal.

http://www.stratpost.com/fa-18-as-good-as-5th-gen-us-navy

 

[vikramrana_1812]

F-18SH E/F can offer more than what India wants.....

F-18SH E/F can offer more than what India wants.....USA also has plans for this aircraft till 2040....obviously India also plan MMRCA fighter till 2040..so not a bad option..it will be ahead in all aspects of avionics and warfare systems with respect to the other MMRCA contenders till 2040...

 

[SHASH2K2]

Boeing Offers India "Super Hornet International Roadmap"

Boeing has said it is offering India the "International Super Hornet Roadmap", which it describes as the next evolution of the Block II Super Hornet -- "which increases survivability, situational awareness, and performance for customers". The company says it has been investing in the International Roadmap for the last two years along with the US Navy. Under the programme, says Boeing, if India chooses the Super Hornet as part of the MMRCA, the Indian Air Force will have the option of adding evolutionary technologies to the platform within this decade on an incremental basis starting 2015. Funded by the US Navy and developed by Boeing, the roadmap on offer allows for the planned insertion of maturing technologies over time. Boeing says this would give the IAF flexibility over the years if they want to insert/ integrate the following new technologies:

* Enhanced Performance Engines
* Next-generation cockpit
* Spherical missile laser warning
* Internal Infra-Red Search & Track (IRST)
* Conformal fuel tanks (see aircraft in slide)
* Enclosed weapons pod (see aircraft in slide)
* Designed-in stealth
* Future survivability technology that will "make the Block II Super Hornet harder to detect, harder to hit, and harder to kill"

According to a note that Boeing sent over, "While India is getting Block II of the Super Hornet, the International Super Hornet roadmap gives India the choice of considerable growth potential. India will be able to participate as an International Super Hornet Roadmap customer, if desired, and could potentially enhance future Indian Super Hornets. The design and growth of the Super Hornet has been done keeping a 40 year life span during which the aircraft remains combat proven."

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/08/boeing-offers-india-super-hornet.html

 

[anoop_mig25]

F-18SH E/F can offer more than what India wants.....USA also has plans for this aircraft till 2040....obviously India also plan MMRCA fighter till 2040..so not a bad option..it will be ahead in all aspects of avionics and warfare systems with respect to the other MMRCA contenders till 2040...

one question can makers of f-18SH E/F can give us ToT . OR LET US INCLUDE MAKERS OF F-16 as well .if yes then we should opt for one of them if not then forget it. rafale,typhoon,gripen or even mig-35 is better

 

[vikramrana_1812]

Boeing Plans Sixth Generation Fighter With Block 3 Super Hornet

Boeing is touting an even newer version of its F/A-18E/F Super Hornet that, paired with an advanced sixth-generation fighter in the works at the company, would give customers what Boeing deems a better package of capabilities than Lockheed Martin's combination of the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The idea is that customers could buy 4.5 generation Super Hornets (perhaps 4.75 generation with the planned extra forward stealth and extra range of Block 3 aircraft) and then switch to a new, sixth generation faster than if they bought the fifth generation Joint Strike Fighter. To be available circa 2024, the sixth generation aircraft would feature a combat radius of more than 1,000 miles and stealth against a much wider spectrum of radars.

"The [Navy] C-version of the F-35 doesn't buy you a lot that the Super Hornet doesn't provide," says Bob Gower, Boeing's vice president for F/A-18 and EA-18G programs. "Our strategy is to create a compelling reason for the services to go to the next [sixth] generation platform. How do you bridge F/A-18E/F to get us there? We want to convince customers to stay with [Super Hornet] a few years longer -- by adding advanced capabilities and lowering price -- so that they can get to the sixth generation faster. If you go to JSF first, it's going to be a long time."

Another part of Boeing's argument is that the "Navy is comfortable with the Super Hornet against the highest [enemy] threat through 2024, with the [improved] capabilities we have in the flight plan," Gower says. "The ability to counter the threat gets you to about the point that [Boeing's] sixth generation is available."

It's part of Boeing's counterattack on Lockheed Martin's claim that the decreasing price of the F-22, which is now at $140 million each, will make it so attractive that Australia may reconsider its buy -- already being paid for -- of 24 two-seat F/A-18F Super Hornets. Until Australia's recent change in government, a number of U.S. officials said the government was considering a second lot of 24 Super Hornets and a six-plane squadron of EA-18G Growlers.

Boeing makes the argument that a sliding in-service date for the JSF is worrying both the Australians and the U.S. military.

"The U.S. Air Force and Navy are now talking a lot more about where they need to go with sixth generation to get beyond JSF," Gower says. "It could be unmanned, but I think you will see a combination of missions -- some manned, some unmanned."

For Boeing, the real discriminators are going to be extended range (1,000-1,500 miles), a small radar signature against low-frequency radars, expanded awareness through connections with the network, and the ability to carry a number of bombs internally.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...hannel=defense

 

[nrj]

one question can makers of f-18SH E/F can give us ToT . OR LET US INCLUDE MAKERS OF F-16 as well .if yes then we should opt for one of them if not then forget it. rafale,typhoon,gripen or even mig-35 is better

Nobody gives entire TOT. And a matured platform does not need makers, but industrial partners.

 

[Daredevil]

F/A-18 as good as 5th gen: US Navy

http://www.stratpost.com/fa-18-as-good-as-5th-gen-us-navy

Now, that is far-fetched. F-18 lacks stealth, internal weapons bay and TVC to qualify itself as a 5th gen fighter. It is just an 4.5 gen fighter, no more no less.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

one question can makers of f-18SH E/F can give us ToT . OR LET US INCLUDE MAKERS OF F-16 as well .if yes then we should opt for one of them if not then forget it. rafale,typhoon,gripen or even mig-35 is better

USA does not give TOT to it's NATO allies or Israel, we cannot expect anything in this regard if we select an American plane.

 

[vikramrana_1812]

Defence-Update - Defense Technology News India Shortlists the European Typhoon and French Rafale for 10 Billion Fighter Buy. August 10, 2010 at 817 pm admin 2 comments

http://bestwidescreenwallpaper.com/topic/weapon-and-technology-mmrca-update-2010

 

[vikramrana_1812]

http://www.defence-update.net/wordpress/20100810_mmrca_shortlist_typhoon_rafale.html

India Shortlists the European Typhoon and French Rafale ...another link

 

[neo29]

Currently we are way ahead of PAF, but when it comes to PLAAF we are short on fighters. PLAAF does have a lot of j-11 flankers and plans to induct more. We already have flankers and we know how potent they can be. They plan to induce lots of j-10's too but we can match them with mig-29's and LCA. But we ourselves know how maneuverable the flankers are in dog fights.

So which of the fighters in the mmrca can match up to the flankers ???

Just take into account that which fighter will match upto our MKI. I dont think US fighters stand a chance against flankers. So does Mig-35. EF and Rafale are the only ones who have done dog fights with f-22 and F-35 and given them a match and tests against other fighters also have proven they are the best. Surely they are the only ones on the list that can take on flankers.

So apart from 634 parameters and other technical aspects why can IAF and MoD take this into account while choosing their desired fighters.

 

[Agantrope]

Suddenly a such a big lobby for Superbug??? :O

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Some saying:

Out:
Rafale
Gripen
F-16IN

In:
EF-2000
MIG-35
F-18SH

Dont know how long we have to wait..

 

[SATISH]

Currently we are way ahead of PAF, but when it comes to PLAAF we are short on fighters. PLAAF does have a lot of j-11 flankers and plans to induct more. We already have flankers and we know how potent they can be. They plan to induce lots of j-10's too but we can match them with mig-29's and LCA. But we ourselves know how maneuverable the flankers are in dog fights.

So which of the fighters in the mmrca can match up to the flankers ???

Just take into account that which fighter will match upto our MKI. I dont think US fighters stand a chance against flankers. So does Mig-35. EF and Rafale are the only ones who have done dog fights with f-22 and F-35 and given them a match and tests against other fighters also have proven they are the best. Surely they are the only ones on the list that can take on flankers.

So apart from 634 parameters and other technical aspects why can IAF and MoD take this into account while choosing their desired fighters.

Actually I think F 35 is not in production yet. And F 18 in Australian air force has flown against the flankers in an exercise. If Flankers fly into Indian territiory one might never know which aircraft in our inventory will intercept it.

 

[nrj]

Currently we are way ahead of PAF, but when it comes to PLAAF we are short on fighters. PLAAF does have a lot of j-11 flankers and plans to induct more. We already have flankers and we know how potent they can be. They plan to induce lots of j-10's too but we can match them with mig-29's and LCA. But we ourselves know how maneuverable the flankers are in dog fights.

So which of the fighters in the mmrca can match up to the flankers ???

Just take into account that which fighter will match upto our MKI. I dont think US fighters stand a chance against flankers. So does Mig-35. EF and Rafale are the only ones who have done dog fights with f-22 and F-35 and given them a match and tests against other fighters also have proven they are the best. Surely they are the only ones on the list that can take on flankers.

So apart from 634 parameters and other technical aspects why can IAF and MoD take this into account while choosing their desired fighters.

I hope you are referring to 'Maneuverability'. This aspect indeed lists among the decided 634 parameters. So it has been considered while closing the FET report.

On other note, MRCA doesn't need to match with MKI necessarily. MRCA & MKI are fighters of different league. In terms of dog-fight capability; Yes, MRCA shouldn't be disappointing. But sheer matching of MRCA with MKI is not fair IMO.

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

SH simply lack the range to go anything like deep into China and you will not be flying refuellers deep into China. Its only the MKI which has the capability to hit deep into China that is why IAF is buying more and more of MKIs.

Though MKI has that capability, it will be dead meat before it enters chinese airspace. PAF can detect MKI within 30 seconds, it wont be an issue at all for PLAAF. IAF can only defend its air-space from Chinese attack until Paf-Fa becomes a reality.

 

[neo29]

Seems since IAF submitted its report, every contenders is doing something or the other for promotion. Seems like dog fights among Contenders.

Gripen's 32-Page Supplement With Latest Edition Of INDIA TODAY Magazine

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/08/gripens-32-page-supplement-with-latest.html

 

[vijay jagannathan]

Super Hornet is continually evolving to meet customers' needs. People talk about aircraft generations. We think those lines are blurred; we think of the Super Hornet as Next Generation because it's continually evolving to stay ahead of the threat.

Our mission from day one has been to provide today what our customers will need tomorrow. And we've made that mission a reality."


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even if the deal is as good as buy 25 get 1 free the US sanctions are a deterrent.