MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

[Daredevil]

Of course anything apart from Rafale is doomed. 0_0

Captor-E AESA radar of Typhoon will be based on same architecture of the existing Captor-M mechanically steered AESA. With the CAESAR (Captor-AESA Radar) as an AESA already demonstrated I don't think it will take a long time and resources to develop a mature platform. The projected date by the Eurofighter consortium is 2015.

 

[Armand2REP]

Of course anything apart from Rafale is doomed. 0_0

France has committed to Rafale and only Rafale, Eurofighter partners are getting F-35. Unless they bail on the F-35 and dump money into Typhoon, the funds are not there.

Captor-E AESA radar of Typhoon will be based on same architecture of the existing Captor-M mechanically steered AESA. With the CAESAR (Captor-AESA Radar) as an AESA already demonstrated I don't think it will take a long time and resources to develop a mature platform. The projected date by the Eurofighter consortium is 2015.

That was before SDSR, German cuts, Italian cuts, Spanish cuts. Tranch 3B doesn't even have a solid order, much less an AESA equipped version. It would be cheaper to scrap CAPTOR-E and install a Vixen-1000 hybrid. Of course I am not saying Typhoons will never get AESA, but wasting money on a 2nd radar by Selex don't make sense.

 

[Agantrope]

The price is justified. I just don't want to see India putting money into the future of METEOR program, while signing separate contract as a partner.

Catalyst: Will future A2G Meteor boost chances of EFT as it'll give enormous A2G capability & end its inefficiency?

A2G is a overkill for the EFT, but it will take atleast 2014 to get that completed, also Rafale would be using the same thing which is a proven AC with A2G

 

[Agantrope]

France has committed to Rafale and only Rafale, Eurofighter partners are getting F-35. Unless they bail on the F-35 and dump money into Typhoon, the funds are not there.

I dont think so, many European nation are dumping the F-35 because of the cost escalation issue also cutting down their orders. Always remember it is not easy to absorb new technology that soon, i will take 2-3 years for any advanced industry to get going to it. Also who mines to get a 5th generation bomb truck instead of a good 4.5 gen fighter, Even when rafale hits the Raptor, it wont be a big deal for EFT to rape the JSF

 

[luckyy]

France has committed to Rafale and only Rafale, Eurofighter partners are getting F-35. Unless they bail on the F-35 and dump money into Typhoon, the funds are not there.


That was before SDSR, German cuts, Italian cuts, Spanish cuts. Tranch 3B doesn't even have a solid order, much less an AESA equipped version. It would be cheaper to scrap CAPTOR-E and install a Vixen-1000 hybrid. Of course I am not saying Typhoons will never get AESA, but wasting money on a 2nd radar by Selex don't make sense.

Rafale will never going to get mmrca deal...i am not against rafale but there are vaild reasons for it...

!)due to over cost of mirage upgrade.. deal still hanging.
2) IAF already makes it clear that they do not want DRDO to partner Snecma in LCA engine project due to high royalty cost....
3) now HAL has approached other engine-makers for the Light Utility Helicopter (LuH), due to over cost charge by snecma...
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/hal-confronts-snecma-in-light-helicopter-project/399963/

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

A sukhoi loaded with Brahmos need not go very deep inside Chinese territory . And also which Chinese Airplane will be able to counter SU 30 ? SU 30 MKI is better customize for air attack role compared to Chinese SU 30 MKK .

Even our ACM does not share your enthusiasm. China enjoys 3:1 fighter ratio+More SAM batteries + better infrastructure+ more air bases. We can only defend our airspace against china. 300 km bramhos range is not called deep inside chinese territory. Chinese claim their J-11 capability to be on par with Su-35. Though I will take it with a grain of salt, underestimating their capabilities will be the biggest mistake any airforce can do.

 

[civfanatic]

We can only defend our airspace against china.

Are we planning on liberating Tibet sometime soon?

Chinese claim their J-11 capability to be on par with Su-35.

Come on, the J-11 is a tit-for-tat copy of the Su-27SK. Literally. Just compare the two aircrafts side-by-side.

Though I will take it with a grain of salt, underestimating their capabilities will be the biggest mistake any airforce can do.

I'd say with all this unneccessary media hype and stark pessimism, we are overestimating more than underestimating.

This is a country that lost a war against a country 20 times smaller (Vietnam).

 

[death.by.chocolate]

Not sure about the T/R module performance. But EFT's AESA will have wider range on sideways (more than +/- 100 degrees). Also the "Swashplate" design will give EFT's AESA advantage than others. This will subsequently give better A2A combat capability to Typhoon. But, it remains to be seen, will IAF wait for that?

That's debatable, swashplate antenna presents its own problems. Added weight and maintenance overhead due to hydraulics required for mechanical steering.
The second is increased RCS, one of the biggest RCS contributors is the radar antenna, the amount of scattering caused by the antenna can be reduced by canting the antenna outward by 15 degrees. The idea is to scatter the incident electromagnetic waves away from probing radars. If the AESA antenna is mounted on a gimbal or swashplate and mechanically steered then the antenna will present a 90 degree angle to enemy radars - this is generally undesirable. Bandstop and bandpass filters that reduce the amount of scattering requires the antenna to remain fixed in the radome (nose cone).

 

[Armand2REP]

Rafale will never going to get mmrca deal...i am not against rafale but there are vaild reasons for it...

!)due to over cost of mirage upgrade.. deal still hanging.
2) IAF already makes it clear that they do not want DRDO to partner Snecma in LCA engine project due to high royalty cost....
3) now HAL has approached other engine-makers for the Light Utility Helicopter (LuH), due to over cost charge by snecma...
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/hal-confronts-snecma-in-light-helicopter-project/399963/

Has it ever occurred to you that GoI might be playing political football with these deals to hang MMRCA in front of us? ie, you get MRCA if you lowball the prices for the rest.

 

[Armand2REP]

I dont think so, many European nation are dumping the F-35 because of the cost escalation issue also cutting down their orders. Always remember it is not easy to absorb new technology that soon, i will take 2-3 years for any advanced industry to get going to it. Also who mines to get a 5th generation bomb truck instead of a good 4.5 gen fighter, Even when rafale hits the Raptor, it wont be a big deal for EFT to rape the JSF

None of the nations dropping F-35 are Eurofighter partners. UK and Italy have billions paid in R&D and are promised production components. They can't bail on it. Their governments see F-35 as the future, not Typhoon. I agree with your premise, they do not.

 

[luckyy]

Rafale will never going to get mmrca deal...i am not against rafale but there are vaild reasons for it...

!)due to over cost of mirage upgrade.. deal still hanging.
2) IAF already makes it clear that they do not want DRDO to partner Snecma in LCA engine project due to high royalty cost....
3) now HAL has approached other engine-makers for the Light Utility Helicopter (LuH), due to over cost charge by snecma...
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/hal-confronts-snecma-in-light-helicopter-project/399963/

Has it ever occurred to you that GoI might be playing political football with these deals to hang MMRCA in front of us? ie, you get MRCA if you lowball the prices for the rest.

no it never occured to me , i have seen MIG-29 & su-30mki upgrade deals going though without hanging mmrca infront ....

 

[Armand2REP]

no it never occured to me , i have seen MIG-29 & su-30mki upgrade deals going though without hanging mmrca infront ....

MiG-35 isn't on the shortlist so obviously they won't dangle that carrot.

 

[luckyy]

MiG-35 isn't on the shortlist so obviously they won't dangle that carrot.

when did MoD handed over the shortlist to you ....

 

[Armand2REP]

when did MoD handed over the shortlist to you ....

 

[luckyy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

first ask yourself ...has this vedio provided by MoD ...

 

[Armand2REP]

first ask yourself ...has this vedio provided by MoD ...

MoD don't provide videos... IAF provides reports and they report it.

 

[luckyy]

MoD don't provide videos... IAF provides reports and they report it.

so what did MoD supposed to do, .....and has IAF supposed to provide reports to news channals ....

 

[Armand2REP]

IAF made a trials evaluation report, that is what they report on.

 

[nrj]

Neither MOD, nor IAF has made any shortlist yet. The stupid shortlisting reports running on channels & blogs are funded....

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Neither MOD, nor IAF has made any shortlist yet. The stupid shortlisting reports running on channels & blogs are funded....

there is no doubt all these supposed leaks are a result of certain vested interests on part of these contestants and their stooges in the media but will it really pay?

MoD gives a damn to what media has to say on the matter, indian public has no real PoV on these purchases since the majority is clueless and there is no fear on part of the MoD of any public fallout if they were to go for any xyz jet because the majority has on purpose been kept off limits from any discussions on the armed forces and their purchases, the only time mass discusses the forces is when a kargil or a 26/11 happens and even then the equipment never gets discussed, leave all that aside MoD does not even heed to the wishes of defence forces always, infact clips their wishes lists quite significantly, other than all that a few jingos like us hardly matter who are really a minuscule of our population, so what is it that these contenders are trying to achieve, imagine saab putting an ad at a bus stop in delhi, what was saab thinking there and what are all these contestants thinking?

i think if any of these contestants really want to have a success, they now need to focus on what will their respective countries bring on the table politically and to what extent can they help india in lift its status globally and help india join various international bodies, i believe the more someone does that for india, better the chances of that country and contender, after all after all the technicalities the decision is going to be a political decision based on what political mileage we get in return, PM has on record said that and so has been repeated off late.

probably russians understand india the best and they are mum and they must be real busy where it matters the most, but then never say never when the americans are around.