MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

[LETHALFORCE]

Does Lockheed Martin think they will be a finalist?? Desperation on their part mentioning the "strategic partnership" angle.

 

[luckyy]

US sanator calling indian leading IT company INFOSYS a " chop shop"...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ls-Infosys-chop-shop-/articleshow/6275459.cms

i wonder how these amarican will cop with 50% offset manadatery in mmrca....

the US-Indo industrial co-operation is a MYTH...

 

[youngindian]

Anti-tamper technologies seek to keep critical military systems data in the right hands


http://www.militaryaerospace.com/in...military-systems-data-in-the-right-hands.html

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

I'm for Eurofighter as EADS is willing to give us partnership and movement of major chunk of manufacturing into India. This also gives India a say in the customization of Typhoon and future upgrades to the like of IAF.

As I see it, the role of MRCA (Typhoon or Rafale if the win) at the beginning of war would be SEAD mission where it would take care of enemy SAM batteries and clear the way for a new wave of ground strikers like Su-30MKI due to its long-range and heavy payload it can carry. For MRCA to do a proper SEAD mission needs powerful radars and that is where the requirement of AESA comes into picture. JMTs.

Unfortunately that SEAD role will move to Pak-Fa as soon 2-3 years after MRCA is inducted. MRCA + Pak Fa will eventually take air superiority rolefrom MKI and MKI will be a dedicated bomb truck in 5 -7 years time.

 

[Armand2REP]

Kommersant did a report citing Times Now, but they also added a little piece of the problem with MiG-35 from their own sources.

Nevertheless, a number of sources of Kommersant from the industry talking about the objective problems MiG-35, associated with inadequate funding for the project, since the only potential customer is the Indian Air Force. The source of Kommersant close to Rosoboronexport, said that the question of the need for additional state funding for the project "MiG-35" President Alexei Fyodorov, UAC staged in late 2008, but the problem was never solved. In his opinion, one of the key issues - the debugging of RD-33MK for the MiG-35. "TBO engine must be 2 thousand hours, and share - 4 thousand hours, but now the engine does not come close to these marks" - said the representative to Kommersant, refusing to clarify the current hours for TBO RD-33MK.

http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.aspx?DocsID=1485111

 

[Quickgun Murugan]

IAF loves the french fighters. If it wasn't for callous french billing attitude, rafale would have been a no-brainer.

 

[arya]

US sanator calling indian leading IT company INFOSYS a " chop shop"...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ls-Infosys-chop-shop-/articleshow/6275459.cms

i wonder how these amarican will cop with 50% offset manadatery in mmrca....

the US-Indo industrial co-operation is a MYTH...

i dont know when he will understand

 

[Yusuf]

Ppgj thanks for taking time mate. One problem that remains is the radar. What if there is any delay in making the aesa to the standard of APG79 of not better by the time the integration takes place? it will throw our program off track. Will there be a penalty clause? Yes all the manufacturers are working on the aesa, but then things can go wrong while developing high tech stuff. If boeing then promises to work on the thrust to weight ratio then it would be in the reckoning. Wonder if that can be done.

The problem is that as per staff req none of the fighters are complete in all aspects and we will be stuck up on the promises each of the manufacturers make. One disadvantage of depending on imports I would say.

 

[nrj]

Going for EFT will be huge undertaking for MOD because of few simple reasons -

(1) AESA won't see operational integration till 2016.
(2) Co-development calls for delay in induction without doubt.
(3) No proven A2G capability.

And If MKI should do the A2G role for EFT then why waste 100million USD per bird ? Bring out more squadrons of MKI & speed up FGFA for the RCS advantages. Early blocks of PAK FA can be assigned limited role while continuing development & waiting for the same.

Clearly EADS wants India to invest & co-develop EFT with India as partners are pulling down money & orders. Why should others benefit with Indian tax-payer's investment?

Logic dictates to sign LCA engine deal with EJ2000 (with TVC) & go for MRCA winner one who delivers fast or shove MRCA....

 

[youngindian]

Xclusive : Air Chief Complains To Antony, MMRCA, Other Deals Delayed Due To Inefficient DOFA, New Body Likely For Offsets !!!



http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/08/air-chief-complains-to-antony-mmrca.html

 

[JAISWAL]

i think this leak is on iaf so as to press mod to select any euro-cancard 4 mrca. and discard usa teens. ;-)

 

[Armand2REP]

Clearly EADS wants India to invest & co-develop EFT with India as partners are pulling down money & orders. Why should others benefit with Indian tax-payer's investment?

That statement is hitting the nail on the head. EF partners are too broke to fund its upgrade so they must beg India to fund it. The engine deal with UAE is similar for Rafale, but we have already developed the avionics needed to make an omnirole plane. EF is just a superiority fighter now with limited GBU capability.

 

[nrj]

That statement is hitting the nail on the head. EF partners are too broke to fund its upgrade so they must beg India to fund it. The engine deal with UAE is similar for Rafale, but we have already developed the avionics needed to make an omnirole plane. EF is just a superiority fighter now with limited GBU capability.

What adds to their problem is non-existent naval platform thus possible IN bid is ruled out. At the end of the day Rafale stands above EF. Political influence with France is another advantage for price & other related, unrelated negotiations. However, I won't avow (quite clear) conclusion yet as whimsical south block in Delhi is sometime abominable.

 

[Armand2REP]

Lets look at the advantages that comes with Rafale's armament. First we have the AASM, a GPS/IR guided bomb with 1m CEP and a range of 55km from high altitude and 15km from sea level ( with booster kit). It can guide 6 bombs to target at once. In one sortie an entire complex can be wiped out at great distance. At max range it can stand-off from any Pakistani air defence and anything but S-300 in China. With its low altitude launch it can fly under any Chinese radar and still have enough range to avoid SHORAD to take out an HQ-9 battery. As complex as the ECCM is on modern radars, I doubt a HARM missile would even do the job. The latest edition of AASM comes with an additional laser seeker to its GPS/IR making it unjammable and unaffected by weather. It is also the only bomb that can make a direct top attack limiting collateral damage. EF-2000 can only drop your standard Paveway LGB. No one is going to fly a $110 million dollar fighter into contested airspace to get shot down dropping an LGB. Then there is Scalp EG of which Storm Shadow is not yet integrated on Typhoons. It gives a capability far better than JSOW. Then there is MICA BVRAAM that comes with both ARH and IR seekers. It is not only a Mach 4 BVRAAM but also an off-boresight ASRAAM tied into the TopSight cuing system. It is the end all be all of short-medium range AA weapons. ASRAAM at Mach 3 and only infrared doesn't compare in any scenario. You can stick an AMRAAM on it, but I doubt India wants to mix American when they will already buy MICA in the Mirage upgrade. Rafale could be fitted to carry three Brahmos thanks to its huge payload while EF-2000 could only carry two. EF also doesn't carry wingtip rails while Rafale can carry MICA BVRAAM on them. EF ECM is carried on pods while Spectra is internal.

 

[bhramos]

IAF expects combat jet selection within a year

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has submitted a report on the trials it has conducted on six combat jets it is evaluating for an order for 126 aircraft and expects the selection of the fighter within a year.

The IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, is quoted by India Strategic defence magazine (www.indiastrategic.in) as saying that the exhaustive field evaluation trials (FET) report covered all the aircraft in contention, and that once the selection has been made, he expected the chosen jet to be in service within three years, say by 2014.

Naik also disclosed that after completing the combat jet trials, the IAF had also completed the field trials of utility helicopters and combat helicopters. The trials of the heavy-lift helicopters were, meanwhile, in the final phase.

'The next four years are crucial but by 2014, IAF would have all the new aircraft and helicopters well in place as part of its transformation process now underway,' India Strategic quotes Naik as saying in its coming issue.

Each system is being acquired along with its training simulators.

As for the combat jet selection process, the air chief gave no indication as to how each of the six aircraft in the fray performed during the trials. He only observed that the IAF had completed its assignment and submitted the report to the defence ministry July-end - on time as promised.

The Russian Mig-35 (initially designated Mig-29M2), Europe's Eurofighter Typhoon, the Swedish Gripen, the French Rafale, and the US Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Lockheed Martin's F-16IN Super Viper are in the fray. The IAF tender is for 126 aircraft with an option for 63 more.

As for the combat helicopters, Naik said that both the Russian

Mi-28 and US Boeing Apache AH 64D had been tested in India. Some weapon trials are due to be conducted in the country of origin. The IAF had issued a request for proposal for 22 combat helicopters to replace its ageing Soviet vintage Mi-35s.

Trials of Boeing's Chinook CH 47F heavy-lift helicopter had also been completed, while that of Russian Mi-26 were likely to be held this month. The IAF needs 15 heavy-lift helicopters to replace and augment its ageing fleet of half-a-dozen obsolete Mi-26s acquired in the mid-1980s.

Trials of the utility helicopters, needed both for the IAF and the Indian Army, are also over. The Eurocopter Fennec 555 and Russia's Kamov 226 are the two contenders. The two services have tendered for a combined order of 197 helicopters.

All aircraft and helicopters are required to operate in the varied hot, humid, desert and high altitude environment of India, particularly to support the deployments in the Himalayan region.

The IAF wants to minimize its inventory of its flying machines to reduce their maintenance costs on the one hand and to increase their operational availability on the other.

Naik said that appropriate infrastructure and communication nodes were also being created as part of the IAF's transformation process now underway.

The IAF aims to have 45 combat squadrons - approximately 800 aircraft - by 2022. Of these, it is already set to acquire more than 270 Sukhoi Su-30MKI air dominance aircraft from Russia. These include 42 aircraft being ordered through India's state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, which is making the aircraft under the licence and transfer of technology (ToT) routes.

http://sify.com/finance/iaf-expects-combat-jet-selection-within-a-year-news-default-kiet4dihadd.html

 

[bhramos]

Too early to comment on MMRCA IAF deal, says MiG

Moscow: Russia today said it was not aware of its MiG-35 fighter's failure to make to the short-list in the USD 10.4 billion tender for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air force, according to a local daily.

Commenting on Indian media reports about IAF favouring the French Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon, an official of the United Aircraft Corporation - the Russian bidder told Kommersant daily that India has not informed them about its decision.



"The MiG-35 is not leaving the tender, and I have no official information about this," UAC First Vice-President Mikhail Pogosyan was quoted as saying by the daily.

A MiG source quoted by Kommersant said it was too early to say what the Indians had decided.

"The official results of the tender have not yet been announced," said UAC's Press Secretary Konstantin Lantratov. Several sources quoted by the paper listed a number of problems related to the MiG-35 programme, including a lack of financing to support it.

The MiG-35 is said to be a cheaper aircraft than its rivals but is said to have problems with engine life.

"Time between overhauls should be at least 2000 hours and overall life 4000 hours, but the RD-33 doesn't meet these parameters now," Kommersant quoted an unnamed MiG source.

Reports in the Indian media had said that other contenders of the 'mother-of-the-deals' -- Sweden's SAAB Gripen, US Lockheed Martin's F-16 and Boeing's F-18 Super Hornet -- have also failed to win the hearts of the IAF.

http://www.zeenews.com/news647399.html

 

[Yusuf]

Its quite funny that the fighter that was all but ruled out in various reports coming in a few months back is now a firm favorite. Makes a mickey out of many. Rafale is back in the reckoning. EF too despite its problems.
Wonder still if there is that last twist in events regarding the americans. I don't think they will give up so easily.

 

[neo29]

US wont give up easily, they will try every trick in the book. Its upto establishment to put forth the best fighter for national needs and then consider geopolitical benefits after that. The best fighters have been supposedly chosen by IAF. Thought the Sh-18 may be reconsidered, i dont think the US will allow any modifications of their standard products. But for sure the IAF and MoD will not just accept the decision of choosing a fighter who has not met its needs. Hope it does not accept any tweaks too in the engine to give the output required.

But for sure India will want to rope in Europe by their side. Its likely that out of EF and Rafale if either chosen for mmrca then the other will be chosen for Naval mmrca.

 

[Shaitan]

Eurofighter<Rafale

My thoughts

 

[ashdoc]

At 18 billion this may be the biggest warplane deal in history?? Does anyone know a bigger warplane deal??

the sukhoi ,when additional 42 are ordered will be biggest deal.:emot0: