MRCA News & Dicussions (IV)

[Phenom]

200 Typhoons !!

Wouldn't that give India the largest typhoon fleet, considering the Brits are unlikely to buy all the aircrafts that they have ordered. It would also take quite a large chunk from the treasury.

IAF seems to have set it sights on becoming the second most lethal AF in the world.

 

[EagleOne]

If the price shows up this figure, few years after signing the contract then its just sad to have known. But I don't think this much amount will be cleared from Fin Min without glitches or cross-checks.

However other POV is, even if winner is announced in next 3-4 months; the contract won't be signed any soon IMO. Once the winner is selected, GOI/MOD will throw series of obligations including 'Re-investment in India', which is most important IMHO. So then if we are watching 18 Billon USD co-invested in India, then its better than anything.... :happy_7: Although above is still largely speculation as this is early to comment on investment I think....

offset for the MMRCA tender was 50% under the DPP 2006

so they need to invest over 9 billion if it is 18billion -correct me if i am wrong

 

[nrj]

offset for the MMRCA tender was 50% under the DPP 2006

so they need to invest over 9 billion if it is 18billion -correct me if i am wrong

Exactly, 50%. Co-investment as I mentioned....

 

[LETHALFORCE]

This is a ridiculously expensive deal.

 

[icecoolben]

This is a ridiculously expensive deal.

but, worth the buck if we can show americans the middle finger.
I for one believe excellent weapons on tailor made platforms are better than uber expensive numbers. I would personally prefer cutting down the order to 105 and
ordering additional low end tejas mk-2 with the same missiles to complement both ef-2000 and su-30 mki.

 

[luckyy]

This is a ridiculously expensive deal.

this 18bn figure is thrown up considering IAF going to buy the most expensive contenders EF or rafale....

but actually this is not the case , .....

mmrca tendor was not floated to select the best among the six contenders but to select the one which fullfill the IAF parameters at lowest cost..

if reportedly all six has cleared for next level then MIG-35 should win.....

mmrca won't going to cost more then 7bn atmost, if winner be choosen sticking to the procedural norms....

 

[LETHALFORCE]

but, worth the buck if we can show americans the middle finger.
I for one believe excellent weapons on tailor made platforms are better than uber expensive numbers. I would personally prefer cutting down the order to 105 and
ordering additional low end tejas mk-2 with the same missiles to complement both ef-2000 and su-30 mki.

how much will the final price be with accessories,upgrades and life cycle costs??? Only superhornet had a chance F-16 had a 0% chance and with the huge order of C-17's boeing was unlikely to also get the whole pie in the MRCA.

 

[nrj]

This is a ridiculously expensive deal.

If another Sukhoi facility was setup, what could have been cost of MKI latest block? I think it could have been under 60 million USD a unit.

Apart from this, the MKI closing some 300 pieces as per recent report, what logistical nightmare IAF is waiting? Will the high numbers of MRCA, MKI, LCA(I/II), SMTs, M2K togetherly kill the proportion of FGFA in IAF? Considering the fact the FGFA (HAL config) will roll out years after PAK FA, Fin Min might snub actual numbers of FGFA?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

If another Sukhoi facility was setup, what could have been cost of MKI latest block? I think it could have been under 60 million USD a unit.

Apart from this, the MKI closing some 300 pieces as per recent report, what logistical nightmare IAF is waiting? Will the high numbers of MRCA, MKI, LCA(I/II), SMTs, M2K togetherly kill the proportion of FGFA in IAF? Considering the fact the FGFA (HAL config) will roll out years after PAK FA, Fin Min might snub actual numbers of FGFA?

Russians had offered another Sukhoi production facility over a year ago why this was rejected even as a stop gap measure is a mystery??

 

[Yusuf]

If we were to consider these reports to be true, then I think the EF will be the leader as it has offered co development in the future and also has offset plans in place.

Other question on this is if the EF is easy to integrate with indian or israeli sub system should the need arise?

 

[arya]

guys cant we go for other option

200 planes

100 EF
100 reafel

 

[LETHALFORCE]

At 18 billion this may be the biggest warplane deal in history?? Does anyone know a bigger warplane deal??

 

[SHASH2K2]

guys cant we go for other option

200 planes

100 EF
100 reafel

Best option of all . everyone will be happy
200 planes.
40 EF
40 Rafale
40 Gripen
40 MIG 35
40 F-18
:emot112:

 

[thakur_ritesh]

if i am getting it right then the 18b usd figure quoted is for 126 jets, which means if we were to go for 189 jets (9squadrons) then the deal would be worth 27b usd and if we plan to have 10 squadrons then the deal will be worth 30b usd (each squadron of 21 will cost 3b usd), man those numbers are absolutely mind boggling and if the same vendor was to get the naval mmrca deal as well, then there will be more and more billions pouring in but the good thing will be, india will be able to buy some huge political influence in that country and also with 50% off set clause, which ever this vendor would be, they are sure to make india a home for a lot of their products. i think for the final winner we need to start looking at the player which gets us the maximum political influence, and saying that, i believe discounting the americans will be a big mistake.

but are these numbers really a possibility or was it an exaggeration on part of the concerned officer and the reporter?

LF, i think this will be the biggest export order for any country, but what about the saudi deal for eurofighter for their 72 jets which has a option of addition 72 jets which they seem quite inclined to procure.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

LF, i think this will be the biggest export order for any country, but what about the saudi deal for eurofighter for their 72 jets which has a option of addition 72 jets which they seem quite inclined to procure.

The Saudi deal was 8.9 billion dollars for 72 planes,buying 72 more planes would probably double the price, our MRCA at this rate will top the Saudi deal.

 

[StealthSniper]

If we are going for the best plane out their, which means (good A2A, A2G, high end technology) then F-18, Rafale and Eurofighter fit the bill. But if we go for the plane that will give us many benefits politically also, then Mig-35, F-18, Rafale and Eurofighter fit the bill.


But here is where we start winding things down. Although the Mig-35 is a great plane, we know it won't be as good as a Eurofighter and F-18 when it comes to high end technology (unless we MKI it which is possible) so that is out. Then we need to have FULL control of any aircraft we procure because of security reasons (and F-18 will come with strings attached) so F-18 is out. And finally we need a plane that has a future and also can help with our own projects like LCA etc, so to me it would be Eurofighter, but I can see why people might choose the Rafale also.


In my eyes, I see the F-18 and Mig-35 still in the story somehow. America and Russia are powerful countries and hopefully even if we get the F-18 or Mig-35 (which aren't the best choices IMO) I hope we can gain alot politically if possible.

 

[nitesh]

The Saudi deal was 8.9 billion dollars for 72 planes,buying 72 more planes would probably double the price, our MRCA at this rate will top the Saudi deal.

LF correct me if I am wrong but Saudis demanded on board personal to do the maintainence and also the birds in fly away condition where the production cost is higher hence the total cost of aquisition is high whereas we will not face such issues

 

[neo29]

Most people are forgetting that we have 2 borders on either side which are sensitive. India has even launched a doctrine for a possible 2 front war. In the coming years Pak is aiming for 200-300 Jf-17. China already has a formidable force but most planes are vintage. They plan to induct 350 J-10's and 200 j11's in coming years. So basically we are facing total 1300-1400 fighters on 2 different borders that includes in the official doctrine.

Now if the IAF after 8 years will have 80 to 100 LCA mk2 flying which will replace the entire mig 21 line. Also we do have soviet era mig 27 which need to replaced down the line. We will surely fall short on fighters ( which we already are ) to match our neighbors.

Hence we need a superior AF that is matchable to both PAF and PLA-AF together. Hence this deal of mmrca is going on, apart from acquiring more su-30mki, upgrading mirage and jaguars, inducting LCA.

The mmrca deal is must for India. We need a new modern fighter to strengthen our arsenal. Now why are most people unhappy with the deal irrespective of the cost. What comes first ??? National security or Money.

 

[Patriot]

MiG-35 stalls in Indian fighter tender contract

Russia's MiG-35 multirole fighter aircraft has failed to make the short-list in a $10 billion international tender for 126 combat aircraft for the Indian air force, according to Indian media reports quoted by Kommersant daily.

The favorites to win the tender are the French Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon, Indian media say.

Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), the holding company for most of the Russian aircraft industry, and its fighter subsidiary MiG, have not officially confirmed the reports.

"The official results of the tender have not yet been announced," said UAC's Press Secretary Konstantin Lantratov.

"The MiG-35 is not leaving the tender, and I have no official information about this," said UAC First Vice-President Mikhail Pogosyan.

A MiG source quoted by Kommersant said it was too early to say what the Indians had decided.

"The envelopes with the commercial proposals should be studied by the tender commission only this week," the source said.

Several sources quoted by the paper listed a raft of problems around the MiG-35 program, including a lack of financing to support it. One source said the lack of state funding to support the program had been noted by UAC President Aleksei Fyodorov as long ago as the end of 2008, but the issue was not resolved.

Russia's MiG-35 multirole fighter aircraft

The MiG-35 is said to be a cheaper aircraft than its rivals but is said to have problems with engine life.

"Time between overhauls should be at least 2000 hours and overall life 4000 hours, but the RD-33 doesn't meet these parameters now," said one source.

India already operates the early model MiG-29A fighter aircraft and is taking delivery of the MiG-29K naval fighter, which it will operate from a Russian-built aircraft carrier which is currently under refit.

The selection of two favored aircraft for the Indian tender follows a long trials process, which also involved Sweden's SAAB Gripen, America's Lockheed Martin with the F-16, and Boeing's F-18 Super Hornet, as well as the Russian MiG-35.



MOSCOW, August 10 (RIA Novosti)




http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/2010/08/russias-mig-35-multirole-fighter.html

 

[luckyy]

In my eyes, I see the F-18 and Mig-35 still in the story somehow. America and Russia are powerful countries and hopefully even if we get the F-18 or Mig-35 (which aren't the best choices IMO) I hope we can gain alot politically if possible.

why underpowered F-18 still there to be seriously considered..