More Talwar Class for Indian Navy

[The enlightened]

older ones will be retrofitted.

Shivalik can be retrofitted with 16x2 VLS modules to replace Shitil?

 

[blueblood]

Shivalik can be retrofitted with 16x2 VLS modules to replace Shitil?

Sure, why not? Naval vessels are designed with future upgrades in mind. Rajput class were upgraded with Brahmos and Barak missiles. OHP class, commissioned in the 70s and 80s are being retrofitted with ESSM and SM-2. Much smaller Sa'ar class corvettes were retrofitted with Barak-8.

It would damn shame if a naval vessel with long lives ~ 40-45 years cannot be upgraded with latest technology available. Pretty sure that 6000 tonnes Shivalik class has such provision.

People went nuts after Kolkata class came up with "just" 32 SAM ready to fire not realizing that the number can be doubled if need be. Space for more VLS is reserved for a better weapon system i.e. possibly navalized version of VLR-SAM which was said to be in the works.

 

[Yusuf]

NEW DELHI: The Russian government has chosen Anil Ambani's Pipavav shipyard for a 'Make in India' naval frigate order that is likely to exceed $3 billion, making it the private sector's biggest-ever warship-building project.

With public sector shipyards tied up in executing current orders and the Indian Navy battling to increase fleet strength, the government has been in advanced talks for the past several months with Russia for three to four upgraded Talwar class frigates, classified as Project 11356 vessels. Moscow, which has been keen to build the frigates at a Russian shipyard, was firmly told last year that the order would only be placed through the Make in India route but it would have the flexibility to choose an Indian partner for the project.

After an evaluation of several Indian shipyards, including that of Larsen & Toubro, Russia has formally informed the defence ministry that Pipavav has been chosen as its Indian partner for the project. Officials said a formal letter was sent by Federal Service for Military Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) director Alexander Fomin last week confirming the partnership. The record deal is the first one landed by Pipavav after it was taken over by Anil Ambani's Reliance Group recently. The contract for the new frigates is likely to be in the form of a government-togovernment order with Russia and could be signed this financial year with delivery expected over the next six to eight years. Vice-chief of naval staff, Vice-Admiral P Murugesan, has confirmed that exploratory talks have been on and, when decided, the frigate order will be under the Make in India initiative.

The project brings together two of the government's key themes. Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced the Make in India initiative on August 15 last year as part of a manufacturing push to create jobs, raise incomes and help boost the economy. The government is also keen on greater private sector participation in defence, having eased overseas investment rules in this regard.

The new stealth frigates will be a vital addition to the navy's surface fleet that is fast being upgraded to meet security challenges in the region. India has already bought six Russian-built Talwar class frigates, the last of which was delivered in 2013.

A team led by Russian deputy industry and trade minister Alexei Rakhmanov has been evaluating Indian shipyards for the project over the past few months. Among the yards visited were Mazgaon Dockyard Ltd, Cochin Shipyard Ltd and the L&T unit, with the final selection being based on the availability of infrastructure and capacity. Pipavav, which is currently executing a naval offshore patrol vessel order, has India's largest shipbuilding facility.

When contacted, a Reliance Group spokesperson said, "We are fully committed to the Make in India vision of our Prime Minister. Our mission is to build higher capabilities at the world-class facility that we have, to be able to serve the complete requirement of the Indian Navy."

While Russia's United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) did not respond to a detailed questionnaire, one of its top executives told ET earlier this month that it was open to working with a private shipyard on the order. "We are ready to transfer technology to ensure the construction of these ships in India. The new ships that will be built will be different and more modern from the Talwar class that have been delivered," Alexi Dikiy, director for military technical cooperation at USC, had told ET.

http://m.economictimes.com/news/def...ates-for-indian-navy/articleshow/48091024.cms

 

[tharikiran]

Not surprised at all. Won't be surprised in future either.

 

[sathya]

Hope submarine orders go to L & T ,

It's ok pipavav is the biggest , it can churn out lot,
But pricing needs to be in control, no raising of price in the middle.

How much technology will the pipavav absorb is the question

 

[Bheeshma]

Why talwars when P-17/17a are far superior designs?

 

[avknight1408]

Hope L&T gets this contract....30 charc........

 

[Yumdoot]

P-17A are already on but the smaller ships too need to be modernized. Besides it is not like Talwar class will not be there in the Indian Navy in future. Indian Navy is not an idiot to be buying the Russian Ships. Nor is Indian Govt. an idiot. This is not the IAF.

The keel for Shivalik was laid in 2002 @ Rs. 2300 crore when INR-USD was around 48 mark. The Project P17A was billed @ Rs. 6500 a vessel in 2009 when again the INR-USD was around 48 mark. From around 450 million USD to 1.35 billion USD in just 7 years.

Today you are sitting a further 6 years from the MoD having budgeted for Project P-17A. But instead people still expect to get a Talwar class at 300 million per piece of the early 1997 when the Shivaliks were in the mother's womb.

Besides these smaller ships are the reason why Indian Navy will be able to finance the new aircraft carriers. So this should actually gladden the hearts of US fanboys.

Project P17 and P17A are more modern only because the earlier regime never gave a thought to modernizing the smaller more usable vessels. Besides all Indian yards have a long list of projects in their hands. New orders to them can only be given after a whole plan to modernize the shipbuilding industry under public sector, is presented. Which BTW is unlikely to expand. Future expansion can come only from the Private Sector for various reasons and if you have to help seed a private sector then the private sector deserves to be able to learn from the best. The Russians are good at making things compact and usable while Indian steel suppliers have the steel available that works best in tropical waters. And hopefully the private sector will work at breakneck speeds to keep the business rolling in.

 

[bengalraider]

The Ambani money sure opens doors in the Kremlin
first frigates now subs!
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-india-servicing-hub/articleshow/48166329.cms
NEW DELHI: Eying an upcoming Rs 5,000-crore Indian contract to upgrade Kilo class submarines, Gujarat-based Pipavav Shipyard has announced an agreement with Russia that is looking to create a global servicing hub for submarines in India.

The agreement, which is likely to be converted into a joint venture company with a 51% stake for the Indian company, was inked with Russia's Zvyozdochka on Tuesday. Pipavav said this is the first time the work for refit of submarines is being conside ..

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[Yumdoot]

Ambanis are too small a fry in this game of high stakes. Seems like this has been in the works since the moment Modi came in. Why else would Russians offer Yasen so quick.

Wait till the Borei gets MKI-ized and made at Visakhapatnam. That would be a real catch. Could also reduce our SSBN requirements by 50% percent if this baby comes in. Mmmmuuuuuhhhhhaaaa-Mmmmuuuuuhhhhhaaaa.

 

[Backinblack]

Russia negotiates with India upon selling of the second trio of six Project 11356 frigates earlier ordered by the Russian Navy, said Igor Ponomarev, vice president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation.

http://mil.today/2016/Ukraine1/

 

[SajeevJino]

they were offering the same since mid 2015 .

and Today DAC cleared P 17 A construction

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

What are the terms? price? ToT? timeline of delivery?

 

[DingDong]

Russia negotiates with India upon selling of the second trio of six Project 11356 frigates earlier ordered by the Russian Navy, said Igor Ponomarev, vice president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation.

http://mil.today/2016/Ukraine1/

There is a difference between "negotiating" and "selling".

 

[Superdefender]

Those 3 are Talwar Class frigates, right? And @SajeevJino, if DAC cleared today, will construction of 7 ships start at the end of this year or as planned as in 2017?

 

[Superdefender]

Those 3 are Talwar Class frigates, right? And @SajeevJino, if DAC cleared today, will construction of 7 ships start at the end of this year or as planned as in 2017?

 

[SajeevJino]

What are the terms? price? ToT? timeline of delivery?

those Frigates don't have the engine, Ukraine refused to deliver the engine, That's why they planning to sell it India,

There is another option too, Russia plans to sell those frigates to Reliance and Reliance will fit those engines, then sell it to other nations, It's Either IN, Russian Navy or some other

 

[SajeevJino]

Those 3 are Talwar Class frigates, right? And @SajeevJino, if DAC cleared today, will construction of 7 ships start at the end of this year or as planned as in 2017?

DAC already cleared the P 17 A proposal by the Navy, what they cleared yesterday was the import contents like Sensors processing system and the weapon package. CCS needs to be give go order and FM needs to allocate fund. Then only the constructions will begun, This may take another some years .Not this year

 

[garg_bharat]

those Frigates don't have the engine, Ukraine refused to deliver the engine, That's why they planning to sell it India,

There is another option too, Russia plans to sell those frigates to Reliance and Reliance will fit those engines, then sell it to other nations, It's Either IN, Russian Navy or some other

Do you think India can fit GM turbines on these and use?
Ukraine may fail to deliver turbines for Indian projects as well.

 

[SajeevJino]

Do you think India can fit GM turbines on these and use?

That's I don't know

Ukraine may fail to deliver turbines for Indian projects as well.

Ukraine had the engines, which was originally produced for those frigates, There is no issues between India and Ukraine, so they can deliver them.

One more Navy is not interested in that Russian Talwars'.