MMRCA news and discussions.

Whats your Choice for the MMRCA Contest?

  • Gripen

    Votes: 5 4.9%
  • F16 IN

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • F18 SH

    Votes: 8 7.8%
  • Mig 35

    Votes: 24 23.3%
  • Dassault Rafale

    Votes: 45 43.7%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon

    Votes: 20 19.4%

  • Total voters
    103

Vladimir79

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Also, the AL-41 is still not ready. That's the reason it's not going to power the PAKFA. Anyways, without the new engine and IRBIS E radar, the BM, right now, is just another MKI.
It is not decided that 117S will not be in the first flight. They are trying to get it ready by November. If they can't then they will install a previous model but Saturn's Director says it will be ready. If it was a serious problem they would just skip it and get on with an older model for flight tests. The initial batches of the engines worked fine, 600 hours with 100+ flights with no problems. Mach 2+, supercruise, and everything. It wasn't until the final series came out in April that problems arose when put in for test flights. The bench tests went fine but they couldn't even get the damned things started when in the plane which tells me it is an installation issue.
 

AJSINGH

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It is not decided that 117S will not be in the first flight. They are trying to get it ready by November. If they can't then they will install a previous model but Saturn's Director says it will be ready. If it was a serious problem they would just skip it and get on with an older model for flight tests. The initial batches of the engines worked fine, 600 hours with 100+ flights with no problems. Mach 2+, supercruise, and everything. It wasn't until the final series came out in April that problems arose when put in for test flights. The bench tests went fine but they couldn't even get the damned things started when in the plane which tells me it is an installation issue.
super cruise is not only property of engine but also the airframe desgin , air flow around the aircraft and in engine
Russia is working on an all new Al41 engine with a complete redesign underway to add supercruise ability to the PAK FA and the Indo-Russian Sukhoi/HAL FGFA. This is yet to bear fruit, but the stop-gap 117S engine, produced by this program, seems to achieve the supercruise goal already.[citation needed] It was recently announced[7] that during testing of a Su-35BM fighter equipped with these engines it was traveling at the ~1.1-1.2M airspeed at nominal power and was still accelerating, thus suggesting that the supercruise was possible at even higher speed. Further testing will show the extent of this possibility.
 

SATISH

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no pilot in this world likes to fly at trans sonic speeds as they find it hard to control the aircraft.
 

AJSINGH

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wondering why did not USA offer F-15 silent eagle for MMRCA comeptition
also did this occur anyone that another advantage of this MMRCA competition is that IAF will be knowing the capability of each aircraft in the competition , may give IAF some advantage
 

AJSINGH

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no pilot in this world likes to fly at trans sonic speeds as they find it hard to control the aircraft.
not now because of advance digital control on fighter jets . it is not dangerous as it was before
 

SATISH

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wondering why did not USA offer F-15 silent eagle for MMRCA comeptition
also did this occur anyone that another advantage of this MMRCA competition is that IAF will be knowing the capability of each aircraft in the competition , may give IAF some advantage
F 15 is a heavy class aircraft...that is why
 

ppgj

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also did this occur anyone that another advantage of this MMRCA competition is that IAF will be knowing the capability of each aircraft in the competition , may give IAF some advantage
does not make much difference. india has been having regular air combat exercises with britain, france, usa. that would give real advantage.
 

SATISH

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not now because of advance digital control on fighter jets . it is not dangerous as it was before
It is still and fly by light (FBL) was developed for that sole purpose...but still pilots hate flying at trans sonic speeds.
 

Vladimir79

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wondering why did not USA offer F-15 silent eagle for MMRCA comeptition
also did this occur anyone that another advantage of this MMRCA competition is that IAF will be knowing the capability of each aircraft in the competition , may give IAF some advantage
They didn't start offering it until this year... too little too late.
 

p2prada

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It is not decided that 117S will not be in the first flight. They are trying to get it ready by November. If they can't then they will install a previous model but Saturn's Director says it will be ready.
If it was a serious problem they would just skip it and get on with an older model for flight tests.
What I meant was the BM is still not ready for manufacturing. The engine troubles need to be sorted out, hopefully it will be by this year end. Then let's have another year for fixing the production engine on a BM and test it.
That would be 2010. Then by the time the initial batch comes to India it will be 2012-13, considering there are 0 delays.

By then Su-30MKI will be at the BM's level with Israeli/Indian equipment already installed. Let's not forget there will still be delays getting the Indian version of the BM in the air by 2014(time when production for the MKI in India stops). Not feasible. Rather invest in ore MKIs. Who knows....the stealth version of the MKIs will be BMs itself.

If true... that post is just a fantasy recap of a blogger... Prasun K.Sengupta. Who the hell is he? I don't know.
He is a respected Indian defence analyst. If I am not mistaken he has also been quoted by FAS.

Blog: TRISHUL
 

Vladimir79

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What I meant was the BM is still not ready for manufacturing. The engine troubles need to be sorted out, hopefully it will be by this year end. Then let's have another year for fixing the production engine on a BM and test it.
That would be 2010. Then by the time the initial batch comes to India it will be 2012-13, considering there are 0 delays.
Engines are a seperate line of production, everything can be set up for their initialisation if time is the issue. It takes alot less time to make an engine than the rest of the plane.

By then Su-30MKI will be at the BM's level with Israeli/Indian equipment already installed. Let's not forget there will still be delays getting the Indian version of the BM in the air by 2014(time when production for the MKI in India stops). Not feasible. Rather invest in ore MKIs. Who knows....the stealth version of the MKIs will be BMs itself.
Su-30MKI will not be on the same level without 117S, NIIP AESA, composites, LO configuration, new flight controls, data links, and a host of other improvements. MKI is a fine aerocraft, but it isn't economic to install all these upgrades for a frame not tooled for them. HAL production facilities are not tooled for this but the original MKI license. HAL Chairman V. Balakrishna announced plans to attempt a domestic Su-30MKI engine so they can copy it after the license ends. I hope they don't plan to go the route of PLAAF.

He is a respected Indian defence analyst. If I am not mistaken he has also been quoted by FAS.

Blog: TRISHUL
He is a blogger who doesn't know MoD plans. Let us wait for the news before we jump to conclusions. I am all for an Su-30MKI upgrade with 117S, NIIP AESA, and a RAM coating. You are probably looking at $12 million per unit for that. Is it only worth it for a mid-life upgrade which 2014 is too early.
 

p2prada

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Su-30MKI will not be on the same level without 117S, NIIP AESA, composites, LO configuration, new flight controls, data links, and a host of other improvements. MKI is a fine aerocraft, but it isn't economic to install all these upgrades for a frame not tooled for them. HAL production facilities are not tooled for this but the original MKI license. HAL Chairman V. Balakrishna announced plans to attempt a domestic Su-30MKI engine so they can copy it after the license ends. I hope they don't plan to go the route of PLAAF.
The 117S may not come now, maybe a decade later. We already have a license for manufacturing 940 uprated Al-31FPs. The NIIP AESA is a possibility since IAF is ready to wait for it rather than install the PESA IRBIS.

Composites are already happening. UAC has plans for making 30% of the MKI into composites. But, HAL wants to push it to 65%. HAL will not be designing the composite version of MKI without UAC.

We will be getting better datalinks from Israel.

He is a blogger who doesn't know MoD plans. Let us wait for the news before we jump to conclusions.
Smart Skin concept, then yes. It is still not clear what MoD and IAF wants now or what is being developed to make the plane better.

I am all for an Su-30MKI upgrade with 117S, NIIP AESA, and a RAM coating. You are probably looking at $12 million per unit for that. Is it only worth it for a mid-life upgrade which 2014 is too early.
Most probably only 48-60 units will be upgraded with composites during the full production cycle phase. There were also some rumors that India will be purchasing 50 more MKIs, which I believe is just that, a rumor.

My guess is MKIs will have 2 MLUs. One during the last year of production and one more after 2025, for obvious reasons.
 

enlightened1

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Rafale Lands in Bangalore!!!



*The multi-role combat aircraft is said to meet IAF’s requirements.
*‘Dassault prepared to transfer all the technology to India’
*Rafale will fly to Leh and Jaisalmer for trial flights

BANGALORE: Rafale, the French built fighter aircraft and one of the six fighters competing for the Indian Air Force’s (IAF’s) multi-billion dollar multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal is in Bangalore. Two twin-engine delta-wing multi-role fighters designed and built by France’s Dassault Aviation and piloted by IAF and French pilots have been undertaking flights – which are part of the MMRCA flight trials — from Bangalore’s HAL Airport since Tuesday.

Officials said the two French aircraft had flown non-stop to Bangalore from Dassault’s Flight Test Centre at Istres in France, thanks to the fighter’s in-flight refuelling capabilities.

One of the most modern fourth generation fighters, the Rafale is in use with the French Air Force, and the French Navy for their carrier-based operations. Officials said the Rafale met all the air staff qualitative requirements sought by the IAF and that Dassault was prepared to transfer all the technology that was required by the Indian side. They pointed out that the Rafale had a functioning Active Electronically Scanned Array radar.

Dassault’s bid had the strong backing of the Nicolas Sarkozy Government.

Piloted by IAF and French pilots, the two trainer aircraft will be based in Bangalore for the next fortnight, flying over, and in and out of Bangalore as they take part in the first phase of the flight trials. During the two weeks the aircraft will fly to Leh for the high altitude/cold weather trials and Jaisalmer for the hot weather trials.

Dassault’s technicians, pilots and maintenance crew will train and show IAF test pilots and flight test engineers the capabilities and uniqueness of the Rafale.

Besides the IAF test crews, the specially formed Indian Evaluation Team has representatives from the Ministry of Defence, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the Defence and Research Development Organisation, Directorate-General of Aeronautical Quality Assurance and Air Headquarters. Two evaluations teams have been formed for the MMRCA flight trials.

The next phase of flight trials will involve weapon firing trials in the country of the aircraft’s manufacturer. Besides the Rafale the other aircraft in contention for the $ 10 billion to $12 billion deal are Boeing’s F/A-18, Lockheed Martin’s F-16IN Super Viper, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company’s Eurofighter Typhoon, Russia’s Mikoyan MiG-35 and Sweden’s Gripen JAS-39.
 

Rajan

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^^^ After F-18 and F-16 now Rafale. IAF gaining experience about the best fighters in the world. Rafale is my second choice after EF Typhoon. Its a good aircraft. I will be very happy if IAF goes for it. It will be a great pleasure to see how pakistani and chinese face it. Just imagine Rafale vs J-10 or FC-1.... :india:
 

icecoolben

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Fighters in medium class

The only aircrafts available in the medium class are f-16, mig-35, gripen ng, rafale.
Shall v take an analysis among them,
i would like to eliminate the f-16 primarily due to its older air-frame.
 

enlightened1

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NOTE: Rafale F2's flyaway cost is now pegged at US$82.3 million, Dassault has offered the F3 version.
 

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