MMRCA news and discussions.

[Vladimir79]

sir they are working perfectly...they are in p d f format...I checked them just now...

Not working and I tried on two different browsers.

 

[SATISH]

Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) RBE2 radar - Thales Group

try this it must work...i just am looking at it...

 

[Vladimir79]

OK, but it doesn't really tell us much about it. No specs at all, this radar is not developed.

 

[SATISH]

OK, but it doesn't really tell us much about it. No specs at all, this radar is not developed.

well sir the brochure arent working...well the RBE 2 as far as i have heard has 1000 T/R modules compared to the Zhuk AE's 680...

Thales?s RBE2 AESA radar successfully completes new series of tests

 

[youngindian]

Lockheed Martin F-16IN is future-ready for IAF’s network centric operations

Thu, Sep 24, 2009

The Indian Air Force’s operational data link (ODL), designed to connect fighter aircraft with a command and control system can be integrated into the Lockheed Martin F-16 fighters.

The ODL is under development and when deployed will make the IAF one of the few Air Forces in the world to have a “networked” fighter force.

According to a media briefing by Lockheed Martin in Bangalore during the trails of the F-16 fighter for India’s 126 MMRCA fighter aircraft tender, the F-16 was the first multi-role fighter to incorporate a data link capability. “The fusion of net-centric operations and onboard data provides a total battle space picture and optimizes mission accomplishment”, said a Lockheed Martin statement.

The IAF's ODL can be integrated onto the F-16IN (the IN designation means an aircraft customized for India) when available, ensuring interoperability with other IAF aircraft.

Data integrates through all phases of the mission – from mission planning, navigation, communication and target prosecution to return to base – transforming the pilot from an aircraft system manager to a tactician.

To make it easy for the pilot to receive and interpret information, the F-16IN has a full-color, digital glass cockpit. Pilots receive information via the -digital cockpit and helmet -mounted cueing system. The large color displays are capable of fusing data from on- and off-board sensors, reducing the workload and enabling the pilot to focus on the mission.

The F-16IN has the world’s only in-service Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar, said the statement. The Northrop Grumman APG-80 AESA radar is the only AESA delivered internationally today. This all-weather, precision targeting sensor has been exported by the United States government to a foreign nation. “No other MMRCA competitor can make that claim”, the statement said. The APG-80 AESA radar provides situational awareness and detection; ultra high-resolution synthetic aperture radar mapping, fully interleaved modes of operations with automatic terrain following; and air-to-air tracking of multiple targets.

Lockheed Martin F-16IN is future-ready for IAF’s network centric operations : Defenseworld.net

 

[Dark Sorrow]

US is only in mass production of second generation AESA. The entire rest of the world is in the first generation phase.

But you are forgetting yankees are offering 3rd generation AESA radar while rest are not. At any given time APG-79 is better than any other radar offered in MMRCA.

The Zhuk AE is fully developed so I don't know where you get your information that it is not. It has completed all trials and certified for mass production. Not only that, but we are coming out with the second generation FGA-35 which will increase T/R module density and increase range and function on the level of APG-79. We are far ahead of our EU competitors.

Any links.

Do you know the meaning of LPI? It means Low Probability of Intercept and Russian AESA has this. Detecting our radar scans will be near impossible. Don't worry about MiG-35 ECM, it is getting the best Italy has from Ellettronica, the ELT/568(v)2 jammer. This jammer is even better than that on Eurofighter developed by the same company.

Almost all AESA radar have the LPI to intercept feature. LPI is mainly achieved due to frequency hopping. I hope you know what is frequency hopping. As for detection LPI radar your RWR should be good to detect it. As for the jammer issue can you provide some creaditable sorce.

 

[Vladimir79]

But you are forgetting yankees are offering 3rd generation AESA radar while rest are not. At any given time APG-79 is better than any other radar offered in MMRCA.

APG-80 is better but no one seriously considers F-16. It isn't all about the radar.

Any links.

??-????????: ??????? ????????? ????????? ????????? ???-35, ??????? ?? 18 ??????? 2009 ???? ????

Almost all AESA radar have the LPI to intercept feature. LPI is mainly achieved due to frequency hopping. I hope you know what is frequency hopping.

Apparently you don't know what LPI is. LPI is not achieved by frequency hopping. LPI is achieved by each T/R module using different frequencies. It is the flood of differing frequencies at once that gives it LPI. Frequency hopping is only done one frequency at a time.

As for detection LPI radar your RWR should be good to detect it. As for the jammer issue can you provide some creaditable sorce.

RWR won't be able to track LPI radar thanks to fast multiple scans throwing it off or tiny beams it can't detect. No RWR in the USAF inventory has been able to locate the APG-77 of F-22. Laser or IR scans have to be incorporated to set off the reciever as in MiG-35 in such a case. Here is more info on ELT/568(V)2...

ELT/568(V)2 (Italy) - Jane's Radar And Electronic Warfare Systems

 

[Vladimir79]

well sir the brochure arent working...well the RBE 2 as far as i have heard has 1000 T/R modules compared to the Zhuk AE's 680...

And FGA-35 is to have 1,100. It is just a matter of assembly.

 

[AJSINGH]

But you are forgetting yankees are offering 3rd generation AESA radar while rest are not. At any given time APG-79 is better than any other radar offered in MMRCA.


Any links.



Almost all AESA radar have the LPI to intercept feature. LPI is mainly achieved due to frequency hopping. I hope you know what is frequency hopping. As for detection LPI radar your RWR should be good to detect it. As for the jammer issue can you provide some creaditable sorce.

more importantly are they offering us 100% TOT?

 

[StealthSniper]

I wonder if the Rafale are offering us full TOT on the radar offered to India. I don't think their is any US technology incorporated on the Thales RBE2 AA radar. And out of the six competitors in the running for the fighter deal, what company is giving us source codes with the plane. Thanks.

 

[Sridhar]

I wonder if the Rafale are offering us full TOT on the radar offered to India. I don't think their is any US technology incorporated on the Thales RBE2 AA radar. And out of the six competitors in the running for the fighter deal, what company is giving us source codes with the plane. Thanks.

Dassault Aviation's senior vice president for military sales, JPHP Chabriol, said, ''When we talk about technology transfer, we mean full technology transfer and not in bits and pieces.''

''The way we work, we first have to obtain clearance of the government before putting in our proposal. If we win the order, we can begin work on transferring technology from day one - unlike our competition,'' he added.
Critically for India, the transfer-of-technology (T-o-T) would include that of a state-of-the-art Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar that would provide Rafale the ability to also function as a close battlefield support airborne warning and control system (AWACS), apart from its designed function as a fighter. The AESA radar T-o-T would also include transfer of software source code, according to Chabriol.



domain-b.com : Dassault ups the ante with full technology transfer for Rafale

 

[StealthSniper]

Based on your information Sridhar the Rafale is definitely a strong contender. And it has been flying with the French airforce for a while and it seems to be a reliable capable aircraft. I wonder why the Rafale hasn't gotten more orders, it seems like a good performer.

 

[StealthSniper]

The software source code is a national security item so it's a big plus for any manufacturer that offers this. I think the Mig-35 and Rafale only offers this. Also the Gripen, F16, F-18 won't offer full TOT and neither the source code, and the possibility for sanctions so you can see how we get handcuffed. The Eurofighter is a good plane but it's a strike figher which is like the SU 30 MKI which is not what we really need. We need a true multirole aircraft. I think we then look at price and performance and then we will see who the winner is.

 

[StealthSniper]

And alot of people are saying that the Rafale is a very expensive aircraft. In my opinion we might get a deal if the Rafale is selected because we might be the first customer. Secondly we know it's expensive upfront to buy but in the long run it might be cheaper if the maintenance and keeping it operational is lower then other competitors.

 

[Vladimir79]

Dassault is getting desperate for a sale with these ToT sales pitches. Rafale is running into a $100 million price tag adding AESA to it. The only way they can sell it to Brazil is with full ToT and an MoU to develop nuklear submarines. I doubt if India is going to just settle for the ToT at such a price. France would have to sweeten the pot once more.

 

[Sridhar]

Please read the whole thread from start. After 88 pages of discussions , I am sure you will find answers for all these questions.

I don't want to go in circles , discussing the same again and again.

 

[Sridhar]

Websites not found...

Not working and I tried on two different browsers.

Sir try with *** replaced with p-d-f .

 

[arya]

hi

if our govt want to take best of this deal the only option is rafale

we must have to increase the speed of modernization of our force

jai hind

 

[Vladimir79]

hi

if our govt want to take best of this deal the only option is rafale

we must have to increase the speed of modernization of our force

jai hind

I don't see how Rafale ToT is going to speed up force modernisation outside of MMRCA. ToT is not a green light that will give you applicable technology overnight. Dassault and Thales are not going to help you use this tech on anything else than what you paid for. Licensed production means you reach the end and that is it. If you want to reverse engineer the system you still can be charged with IP theft. A whole new system would have to be developed which would take years to decades depending on complexity. India has had ToT of fighters for decades but still has to go to the foreign suppliers for even simple issues. It takes years just to reprogramme a source code even when they give it to you. If India was going to make their own 4++ gen fighter based on Rafale ToT, it would take decades to see results that didn't infringe on IP rights. France is not going to give India the R&D data necessary to illegal copy this plane for modification. That is not how ToT works. Don't be fooled by the "Full ToT" ruse.

 

[p2prada]

Sounds nice... you have a link for these upgrade plans?

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/37440-post200.html

It's already been posted by a member on the MKI thread. It would bring it to the same level as a Su-35 in a few years, if true.
Also, the AL-41 is still not ready. That's the reason it's not going to power the PAKFA. Anyways, without the new engine and IRBIS E radar, the BM, right now, is just another MKI.