MMRCA news and discussions.

[Sridhar]

Monday, September 14, 2009

Lockheed Launches Attack On Gripen's MMRCA Campaign

The gloves are off, not that they were ever on. Just a few days after Gripen held a well-reported press conference in Delhi last week, Lockheed-Martin has hit out at the Swedish plane-maker's campaign for India's $10.2-billion medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition. At a reception for Lockheed-Martin's new India head Roger Rose, there was lots of talk on Gripen country head Eddy de la Motte's repeated affirmation that there would be "total transfer of technology" if the Gripen was selected. Lockheed-Martin Vice President (Business Development, India) Orville Prins told journalists that the Gripen campaign's assertion that there would be 100 per cent ToT was "dishonest and inaccurate".

Prins pointed out that with an admitted 35 per cent of the Gripen being made up by American components and systems, there was no way that the Swedes could trumpet full transfer of technology, simply because a full transfer of technology would mean formal release of the said technology by the US government, which may or may not be forthcoming. "Without formal sanction for technology release, it simply not honest to say you can transfer all technology. It is plainly false," Prins said.

Like I said, the gloves are off, and even the world's biggest aerospace firm feels the heat sometime or other. The F-16IN campaign considers itself seriously threatened by the Gripen IN's concerted effort to fritter out American content. It's interesting how Lockheed-Martin would also rely on a political leash on the Swedes, rather than concentrate its effort on attacking its competitors on technology. But then again, even the Swedes know this isn't a meat and potatoes campaign.


LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Lockheed Launches Attack On Gripen's MMRCA Campaign

 

[AJSINGH]

about the above post ,Lockheed is right about that issue also one should note that the modified version of the gripen has only 16% american parts not 35%

its amazing to see different aircraft company fighting with each other
Rafale with lockheed martin and now Lockheed martin with gripen
the only clean aircraft left is eurofighter and Mig 35

 

[Rahul Singh]

Be it 16% or 35%, major issue is GE's F-414 engine. This american engine is the heart and soul of JAS-39 IN and without it 'Gripen' simply can not perform what it claims to. And to SAAB's sorrow, there isn't any equivalent option available.

 

[shankarosky]

well those two aircraft are likely to win the contract -without technology denial issue

 

[AJSINGH]

well those two aircraft are likely to win the contract -without technology denial issue

which two aircraft are u talking about ?

 

[nitesh]

which two aircraft are u talking about ?

rafale and MiG 35

 

[AJSINGH]

rafale and MiG 35

well Mig 35 is the most logical choice for IAF .that aircraft come with no strings attached

 

[Tamil]

hi i am new member just think in diff way
the best should be win but the fact is we can not ignore usa we must have to divide the order like a big one order to raffle and we can give 50 planes order as f16 just think we can not make IAF strong witout aircraft carrier we must requried at least 6 tilll 2011-15 for these fighter palens
we really need aircraft carrier very urgent no 1 or 2 at least 6

arya its impossiable for F-16IN @ any point of view it is strightaway rejected due to the useing nation Pakistan. the orders never be splited.


maintaining 6 AC is not a simple task. in Asia India is the only country having the AC. in future 2 build localy and 1 refitted from Russia.

 

[Tamil]

cannot agree with you more

then what you want to do buying a US Product and bow ur heads down? in US product you are the owner but as per their wish u do all things.

if russians late or demand high price after the deal also they send every thing to you @ any given time, even india conduct another nuculer test. think about US what they do...?

well Mig 35 is the most logical choice for IAF .that aircraft come with no strings attached

now you say MiG-35 is Best ha ha ha

 

[arya]

but the fact

arya its impossiable for F-16IN @ any point of view it is strightaway rejected due to the useing nation Pakistan. the orders never be splited.


maintaining 6 AC is not a simple task. in Asia India is the only country having the AC. in future 2 build localy and 1 refitted from Russia.

thats true sir

but we can not ignore the fact if we really want to grow we have to use some one in our favour you can say give and take i know Pakistan and china using same plane but you know the ground reality china is trying to build a group of country against us and we know Pakistan is just waiting for right time

i am saying for more aircraft carried because it make our self more strenght with them we will have more option against i think with help of them we can make more impact

its not about the cost its about the nation

 

[arya]

hi

i want to know what will be wrong if we split the order we can take two different types of plane
like raffle & f16
raffle & mig35

what will be advantage and disadvantage of splinting
pls tell me

jai hind

 

[AJSINGH]

thats true sir

but we can not ignore the fact if we really want to grow we have to use some one in our favour you can say give and take i know Pakistan and china using same plane but you know the ground reality china is trying to build a group of country against us and we know Pakistan is just waiting for right time

i am saying for more aircraft carried because it make our self more strenght with them we will have more option against i think with help of them we can make more impact

its not about the cost its about the nation

for exactly the same reason we should acqruire better combat aircraft ( I.e Mig 35 ) as for IN aircraft carrier we should operate 4 with one reserved .

 

[AJSINGH]

hi

i want to know what will be wrong if we split the order we can take two different types of plane
like raffle & f16
raffle & mig35

what will be advantage and disadvantage of splinting
pls tell me

jai hind

first the contract does not allow the splitting the order
acquiring rafale and F-16 would mean to set up new infastructure ,support system, pilot training etc etc
Raffle and Mig 35 would be a good combination because we already operate Mirage 2000 and Mig 29 but like i said the reason why we cant split the order is because of the fundamental rule in the contract that the entire order will go the single vendor

 

[Dark Sorrow]

AJSINGH,
Can you tell me why any combination including Mig-35 is good and a combination not including Mig but american birds will be a bad one.
Be it any jet, logistic problem will be encountered by all.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

arya its impossiable for F-16IN @ any point of view it is strightaway rejected due to the useing nation Pakistan. the orders never be splited.

So what Pakistan is also using F-16, the birds they are using are simply no match to what is being offered to us.
In past their are several instance where we have used equipments that were already in service in Pakistani armed forces.

 

[tharikiran]

So what Pakistan is also using F-16, the birds they are using are simply no match to what is being offered to us.
In past their are several instance where we have used equipments that were already in service in Pakistani armed forces.

The problem with F-16 it seems is PAK knows its radar signature, tactics which can be employed and overall flight environment/envelope of the F-16.

Basically, they have operated that plane for couple of decades. So, they understand it better. I would obviously would not like my enemy to know what my aircraft capabilities are.A combat aircraft is not just another ordinary equipment, which both India and Pak can have of the same type.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

The problem with F-16 it seems is PAK knows its radar signature, tactics which can be employed and overall flight environment/envelope of the F-16.

Basically, they have operated that plane for couple of decades. So, they understand it better. I would obviously would not like my enemy to know what my aircraft capabilities are.A combat aircraft is not just another ordinary equipment, which both India and Pak can have of the same type.

I would say so, SV use different radar, engine, an all color glass cockpit, a new improved EW suite and infra-red search. The customization option will also enable us to replace the skin and have more percentage of composites. Now after this i don't see how pakistan can get all info about SV just looking at their birds.

 

[youngindian]

GE plans to source parts from India for F-16 engine

September 17, 2009

General Electric (GE), which is in contention as the engine supplier for the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract of the IAF with three of its engines, is keen on sourcing components from Indian industry.GE said, it will manufacture, assemble and test the engine, if any of its partner wins the contract, at the Hindusthan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The global engine manufacturing behemoth said it will get many of its engine components manufactured by local firms. GE’s F110-GE-132 turbofan engine powers the F-16 IN, which Lockheed Martin is seeking to sell to India.

The F-16 IN is one of the contenders for the MMRCA contract for the supply of 126 aircraft. The F110-GE-132 turbofan engine developed by the GE, and which will power the F-16 IN, was originally developed for the United Arab Emirates F-16E/F. The engine has a thrust of 32,000 pounds, which is considered as little on the higher side for a small aircraft like the F-16. This extra power makes it possible for the F-16 IN to carry more armaments.

More than 3,000 F110 engines have been ordered since the US Air Force first selected the engine in 1984. Till, now over 3,000 of these engines have been mounted on various airframes including the F14, F15 and F-16, since 1984.

“The firm will tailor the engine for Indian configurations,” said Philip G Woniger, program manager, F110-GE-132, GE Aviation. Customisations for the engines that will power the F-16 IN will include durability core.

The engine produces 170 reports that guide the engine maintainers.

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

 

[ppgj]

The problem with F-16 it seems is PAK knows its radar signature, tactics which can be employed and overall flight environment/envelope of the F-16.

Basically, they have operated that plane for couple of decades. So, they understand it better. I would obviously would not like my enemy to know what my aircraft capabilities are.A combat aircraft is not just another ordinary equipment, which both India and Pak can have of the same type.

your point is good but all AFs always have ways of knowing the capabilities of enemy AF aircrafts. PAF trains and has even operated in war times for the syrian AF so it is safe to assume they know our migs well enough. likewise india knows the f-16 via israel. actually it is all open book. every one knows everyone else and the only thing that will decide is the pilot training and tactics. if IAF feels SV is good they may go for it.

 

[Vladimir79]

Why would India go for SV? It is single engine which means loss in case of failure. It costs $80 million which is far more expensive than Russian offer. Pakistan fields similar aerocraft. There is no infrastructure or commanality in the current or future fleet. It will never be carrier capable. It has no TVC. The production line is coming to an end which will mean little support in coming years. The current orders at LM are already backlogged for several years. The radar has no weather mapping mode delaying orders even further.