Make in India - Domestic Defense Manufacturing

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[ARVION]

3,653 is the total requirement for the Artillery's programme's excilding's upgungine's, upgradinge's extising artilery's. Number's are constanely's changing's.

 

[ARVION]

Indigenous Development of Artillery Guns
Having failed to make much headway with foreign procurements coupled with the size of the Army's artillery procurement has lately prompted the Indian industry both public and private firms to enter the gun manufacturing. The Indian industry is keen, to not only participate, but also contribute towards self reliance with the state-of-the-art equipment. The private sector has been gearing up by creating state-of-the-art defence and aerospace manufacturing facilities that too without any assured orders.

Dhanush: The development of 155mm 45 calibre howitzers, called the Dhanush, undertaken by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) utilizing the drawings/design and manufacturing technology earlier procured from Bofors. The project is expected to be worth Rs 1260 crores with the initial order for 114 guns already placed by the Army which could be enhanced further to 414 guns if the gun proves its mettle. As of now, the winter trials for the gun are on-going in Sikkim which is expected to finish by March, to be followed by summer trials in the desert in Pokharan in May/June 2014.
This 45 calibre gun has a range of 38 km compared to the 27-km range of the original Bofors gun and has an electronic sighting and laying system for aiming the gun at the target. The Gun Carriage Factory, Jabalpur is the integrator and is establishing production for 18 guns a year in 2015 and would be doubling that capacity in 2016.

Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS): In addition to this, the Defence Research & Development Organization (DRDO) along with the Army is also developing a fully indigenous 155mm/52 calibre towed gun. ARDE, the Pune based DRDO lab, is spearheading this project known as Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) and as of now, the gun's specifications have already been firmed with its basic design being finalized. DRDO has also selected private firms - Bharat Forge, L&T and Tata Power (SED) will be playing a pivotal role in the development of ATAGS. The gun is likely to be developed as seven work packages, with each of these sub-systems being developed and manufactured by the Indian public and private entities. DRDO is hopeful to begin the in-house trials of the gun by 2016 and offer the gun to the army for user trials by early 2017. If everything goes well then Army would initially be placing an order of over 140 such howitzers after the successful completion of the trials. This gun will have a range of 60 km with a weight of just 12 tonnes, making it ideal for the narrow, twisting roads along which it would have to be transported along Indian's Himalayan frontiers.

Besides OFB and DRDO guns, two private entities - Tata Power SED and Bharat Forge have also successfully demonstrated capability in developing artillery guns on their own. Manufacturing of weapon systems have been the sole preserve of government sector which had the technological infrastructure but with the entry of these vendors has clearly implicated that the Indian private sector has the requisite technical and manufacturing skills and capable of taking on the challenge.

TATA's Mounted Gun System (MGS): Tata Power SED has developed a prototype 155mm 52 calibre truck-mounted gun howitzer called as the mounted gun system (MGS). Mounted on a 8X8 truck, the gun is 52 percent indigenous and has undergone dynamic firing followed by road trials. The weapon system has tactical and road strategic mobility and has a range of 600 km without refueling, travelling at speeds of up to 85 km/hr. It can fire all types of 155mm NATO standard rounds, standard HE ammunition, Extended Range (Base Bleed) ammunition and Rocket Assisted Ammunition to the desired range. The platform has on board ammunition, carrying capacity of 26 projectiles and 26 charges. The main weapon along with its sub-assemblies is planned to be manufactured in India on ToT.


The company plans to offer the gun for the Army's tender for 814 such truck-mounted guns worth over Rs 8,500 crore. The firm has already presented the Government with a detailed roadmap for the indigenous production of its mounted gun.

Bharat Forge's Bharat 5: As for Bharat Forge, it is developing/producing a towed version of a 155 mm howitzer, named as Bharat 52, to meet the demand of the Indian Army and has a deadline of 2015 for its completion. The company imported an entire gun, the GHN-45 to absorb technology; while simultaneously buying and importing an entire production line from RUAG of Switzerland. As of now, the gun is to undergo testing and the company has already put its request to MoD for testing facility. The system uses self-propelling capability and automatic laying, enabling rapid 'shoot and scoot' even with towed guns. The self propelling system can move the cannon at a speed of up to 30 km/h, and provide sufficient mobility for change of positions. The system weighs 14 tons and has a maximum firing range of 41 km, with 3-5 rounds per minute rate of fire.
However, considering the fact that the shortfalls in the artillery are alarmingly high and escalating as most of the guns are obsolete, these indigenous developments could provide much needed respite, even though it will take at least five years before the Army gets the indigenous guns.

There is no denying the fact that private sector companies have demonstrated greater and highly-effective resource planning and resource utilisation. Comprehensive project management coupled with better supply-chain management, results in avoiding time and cost over-runs. The public and private sectors should complement each other with spirit of creating healthy competition to meet the requirements of the Armed Forces. In the past lack of indigenous capability has made the MoD to take on the import route for artillery procurements which however till date have not yielded any results. With upgrades and modernization for its artillery systems long overdue and the capability being shown by the public and private entities in developing indigenous howitzers, there definitely does not seem any further requirement of going the import way for the procurement of some variants of artillery guns to meet the requirements of the Army. Rather, on the other hand, the Government should provide the requisite funding and encouragement to private vendors to come up with the manufacturing and subsequently opening up for production line of guns. This in turn will not only save the long and expensive global tendering process and dependency on imports but also the country will be able to develop the much required strong DIB.

 

[IndianHawk]

Since MoD bashing seems to be the mood of the day,I repeat my fundamental argument:

Without going into atleast one proper war every decade, a domestic MIC will never be fully developed within a country.

of course there are nuances & exceptions, but I think my fundamental remains valid.

That's pretty much it. Without an active high intensity conflict an inevitable lull sets in. Hopefully persistance Chinese threat will change this equation .

 

[captscooby81]

Says so much about our DRDO and their workmanship

 

[Bhadra]

It's 614 for ULH's.

How have you reached that figure...
I thought the plan was to procure 145 initially and 290 subsequently which makes it up as 435,

Out of initial 145 For seven Light Regiments to be converted to Meduim Regts . BEA was to supply 25 and rest 120 to be assemebled by Mahindras in India. If India want more than the natural candidate will be Mahindra at least for commonalty of parts and spares.

One must note following =
ULH is 155/39 = the lowest caliber amongst 155mm and less range.
Cost of ULH is about 35 crores per gun. Compare that with 12 crore for Dhanush. So three Dhanush for one ULH.

India now needs more of all role and all terrain Gun/ Hows. Only a few . bare essential numbers of specific role tracked How. Wheeled SP How are required. With two front war becoming almost a reality, we need systems that can be moved and used everywhere.

ULH mounted on wheeled Vehicles for mountains is not bad idea but look at the cost. Steel barrel ULH which Kalyani is offering can be taken only in few quantities.

 

[ARVION]

How have you reached that figure...
I thought the plan was to procure 145 initially and 290 subsequently which makes it up as 435,

Out of initial 145 For seven Light Regiments to be converted to Meduim Regts . BEA was to supply 25 and rest 120 to be assemebled by Mahindras in India. If India want more than the natural candidate will be Mahindra at least for commonalty of parts and spares.

One must note following =
ULH is 155/39 = the lowest caliber amongst 155mm and less range.
Cost of ULH is about 35 crores per gun. Compare that with 12 crore for Dhanush. So three Dhanush for one ULH.

India now needs more of all role and all terrain Gun/ Hows. Only a few . bare essential numbers of specific role tracked How. Wheeled SP How are required. With two front war becoming almost a reality, we need systems that can be moved and used everywhere.

ULH mounted on wheeled Vehicles for mountains is not bad idea but look at the cost. Steel barrel ULH which Kalyani is offering can be taken only in few quantities.

Got confused between mounted and mountain. Sorry.

 

[IndianHawk]

Cost of ULH is about 35 crores per gun. Compare that with 12 crore for Dhanush. So three Dhanush for one ULH

That's the BAE ulh. Kalyani ulh will cost much much less. And ulh can be Carried by Chinook to hights where dhanush can't reach so both can't be compared pricewise.

 

[ARVION]

How have you reached that figure...
I thought the plan was to procure 145 initially and 290 subsequently which makes it up as 435,

Out of initial 145 For seven Light Regiments to be converted to Meduim Regts . BEA was to supply 25 and rest 120 to be assemebled by Mahindras in India. If India want more than the natural candidate will be Mahindra at least for commonalty of parts and spares.

One must note following =
ULH is 155/39 = the lowest caliber amongst 155mm and less range.
Cost of ULH is about 35 crores per gun. Compare that with 12 crore for Dhanush. So three Dhanush for one ULH.

India now needs more of all role and all terrain Gun/ Hows. Only a few . bare essential numbers of specific role tracked How. Wheeled SP How are required. With two front war becoming almost a reality, we need systems that can be moved and used everywhere.

ULH mounted on wheeled Vehicles for mountains is not bad idea but look at the cost. Steel barrel ULH which Kalyani is offering can be taken only in few quantities.

Dhanush cost was around 11.5 crores when it's cost increased to 12 crores.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Says so much about our DRDO and their workmanship

View attachment 53131

The systems used in C130J and C-5 which are used to drop equipments are imported or indigenous?

 

[ARVION]

The systems used in C130J and C-5 which are used to drop equipments are imported or indigenous?

Imported's.

 

[ezsasa]

Says so much about our DRDO and their workmanship

View attachment 53131

I get the frustration that everyone here is expressing.

but one angle has to be given a thought, why these DRDO developments are culminating now and not before. safe to say, more domestic products have been developed & tested in a six year span than ever before. some products have been discarded after development too in the same time period, but that’s part of a normal development cycle.

I would argue the following reasons:

1) political will
2) more budget due to increase in govt revenues
3) possible indicators of fundamental changes to defence doctrines in the near future.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Imported's.

Then this system can be used to replace them

 

[ARVION]

Then this system can be used to replace them

But upgrading and variations need to be done.

 

[Bhadra]

That's the BAE ulh. Kalyani ulh will cost much much less. And ulh can be Carried by Chinook to hights where dhanush can't reach so both can't be compared pricewise.

How much cheaper..may be one or two crores less..

This Helicopter business is a little unworkable as a solution because ammunition supply will reamin a problem.. It is only an emergency measure say Chinese suddenly attack Depsand one can at least fly in some guns there.. Should be only for MSC operations inside tibet... For that planned 21 Regts are more than sufficient..

How can only 15 Chinook foot the bill. 15 Chinooks can deploy one battery with some ammunition... India would require about 200 Chinooks to make one MSC functional on a thrust without a road axis.

MGS is a better choice as the guns can fire from roads...

 

[Ajax01]

Says so much about our DRDO and their workmanship

View attachment 53131

When do we have C5 ?

 

[ARVION]

When do we have C5 ?

Intended to say C 17's

 

[IndianHawk]

How much cheaper..may be one or two crores less..

This Helicopter business is a little unworkable as a solution because ammunition supply will reamin a problem.. It is only an emergency measure say Chinese suddenly attack Depsand one can at least fly in some guns there.. Should be only for MSC operations inside tibet... For that planned 21 Regts are more than sufficient..

How can only 15 Chinook foot the bill. 15 Chinooks can deploy one battery with some ammunition... India would require about 200 Chinooks to make one MSC functional on a thrust without a road axis.

MGS is a better choice as the guns can fire from roads...

Kalyani has two offerings in ulh category one full titanium like m777 at 4 ton. and another a bit heavier at 6-7 ton but less titanium in this. This 6-7 ton gun should be lot cheaper if produced in numbers.

These guns won't be moved only in emergency but they will be permanently at heights. Emergency movement will only be used to reinforce weaker sections faster which is very useful in standoff like we are having now.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Cost of ULH is about 35 crores per gun. Compare that with 12 crore for Dhanush. So three Dhanush for one ULH

Dhanush 13 ton vs ULH 3.2 ton.

There is a reason why most countries have light and heavy artillery tho small countires prefer only light ones.

Normal artillery are made of steel and are easy to maintain the drawback being they are hard to transport.
Titanium alloy artillery are light and easy to transport on truck, helis the only drawback being it's costky maintenance.
Also alloy performs very well in cold climate.

 

[porky_kicker]

Says so much about our DRDO and their workmanship

View attachment 53131

This system has been around since last decade ,

I fail to understand why it is a news now , kya bakchodi hai yeh from media , digging up old news

I remember posting it's pic 2 years or more back

There is also a GPS guided version tested long ago