Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[plugwater]

Wrongly posted.

 

[Damian]

Small OT, interesting infos and skechtes from Andreis blog.

andrei_bt - Габариты башни советских танков

 

[plugwater]

Where are arjun fans ?
Discussion has become one sided!!

Even though i like arjun's design seems it has a long way to go to match t-90s.

 

[Damian]

The fact is that Arjun is Your first MBT, Your country just need time, more data, more experience, but remember that other countries don't stand in one place, it is hard to get up to their level.

 

[p2prada]

Andrei-bt, I have heard of him before. Or maybe seen his name in a forum.

BTW, interesting specifics, 575mm armour LOS is quite a lot considering the time the tank was made. And what is this corundum ball? Looks like Rubber that's placed between plates.

BTW Damian, I had read somewhere the T-72 tanks were tested using the DM shells from a Leopard. How far is that true?

 

[p2prada]

Where are arjun fans ?
Discussion has become one sided!!

Even though i like arjun's design seems it has a long way to go to match t-90s.

The fact is that Arjun is Your first MBT, Your country just need time, more data, more experience, but remember that other countries don't stand in one place, it is hard to get up to their level.

This really depends on how quickly DRDO is able to grasp newer techniques and utilize them. The 3rd gen is lost to us. We can only hope to better the Arjun in upgrades like the Leo or Abrams to get up to those levels in the next decade and build a whole new tank. Pretty much the biggest advantage we have is that no one is going for a whole new tank which could very well be the edge we need. That apart from a rather unlimited funding from our roaring economy.

Arjun's death would be more like a Phoenix rather than some donkey's death. It may very well rise from the ashes in a new form by the next decade.

 

[sayareakd]

Where are arjun fans ?
Discussion has become one sided!!

Even though i like arjun's design seems it has a long way to go to match t-90s.

what is the point it has been discuss till death, we know what happen at the tanks trial, if Arjun was not won then Votka lobby would have shouted at the top of their lungs.

BTW those 500 Arjun tanks were order after T90 was defeated it was not out of charity for the nation. BTW earlier DGMF is out of office, his dream project FMBT (rusisan T95) was cancelled (not kept alive by private money in order to secure Indian Order).

 

[plugwater]

what is the point it has been discuss till death, we know what happen at the tanks trial, if Arjun was not won then Votka lobby would have shouted at the top of their lungs.

BTW those 500 Arjun tanks were order after T90 was defeated it was not out of charity for the nation. BTW earlier DGMF is out of office, his dream project FMBT (rusisan T95) was cancelled (not kept alive by private money in order to secure Indian Order).

Saya, You have to accept that arjun came on top only in accuracy and some other parameters. Overall T-90 is better than Arjun as per the discussion in last few pages. P2p has been saying this, Militarysta and damien have also confirmed that arjun is weaker.

Lets hope DRDO surprise us with MK-2.

 

[Damian]

In Poland, later I will show some PDF.

 

[Damian]

http://www.witu.mil.pl/www/biuletyn/zeszyty/20100115p/7.pdf

Thes test goal was to achieve richochette, distance was 600m, there was less than normal propelant charge in propelant case.

 

[militarysta]

There where another test in Poland. And in Germany.

 

[p2prada]

Cannot translate the pages. Can you tell us a gist of what happened before I look for a translator?

 

[Damian]

PT-91M composite armor model with ERAWA-2 placed at angle 68 degrees was hit by DM33A1 120mm APFSDS fired from Leopard 2A4 from 600m.

Subject of this test was to gather data on APFSDS penetrator ricochette.

 

[Archer]

Oh, greate:




This have about 500-580mm RHA for 2000m. Like all IMI clones...
It's 1985' level.

btw: In new T-90M you have 724mm long places in auto. For a new russian APFSDS. Think why...

Where is this mythical space and where is the round? The Indian Army even today, primarily relies on Israeli rounds because they offer far better performance than the Russian BM42 variants peddled to India. Heck, even Russian arms vendors at shows admit that their lack of modern APFSDS is a problem.

 

[Archer]

Saya, You have to accept that arjun came on top only in accuracy and some other parameters. Overall T-90 is better than Arjun as per the discussion in last few pages. P2p has been saying this, Militarysta and damien have also confirmed that arjun is weaker.

Lets hope DRDO surprise us with MK-2.

Rubbish. The Arjun is a heavy MBT and is overall superior to the T-90 across the board, irrespective of what a bunch of guys quoting Russian vaporware - which BTW is yet to be matured - say!
The Arjun in contrast is a highly tested product. Go & look up the latest IA video on the Armoured Corps at NDTV and what the officer says about the Arjun!

 

[Archer]

It is interesting, they says many things about Arjun armor tests but T-90 tests are classified... wht they affraid of? That T-90 will have comparabale or better protection?

The "many things" about the Arjun armor tests are because the Arjun is an Indian project and regularly tracked by parliamentary audit and national media. The T-90 is ex-import. Less is known about the tests conducted against it, because it was not developed locally & hence manufacturer conducted tests are known only to the user & supplier! BTW, its not as if the Russian side has not revealed details about the T-series armor either.

 

[Archer]

The fact is that Arjun is Your first MBT, Your country just need time, more data, more experience, but remember that other countries don't stand in one place, it is hard to get up to their level.

The Arjun is actually 3 projects rolled into one. The original, circa late 1970s was a reengineered Vijayanta, the one circa 1980s was a modernized derivative, the one finally decided on was an Abrams M1A1 equivalent with specifications picked up from both the Leopard2 A4 and Abrams M1A1. Thereafter, the Army asked for further changes, moving the tank beyond these original goal posts. The point is the Arjun is not just a tank developed yesterday as a beginners effort. It is the culmination of decades worth of engineering effort for a customer which will not accept anything but the best - as it defines it.

 

[Damian]

The "many things" about the Arjun armor tests are because the Arjun is an Indian project and regularly tracked by parliamentary audit and national media. The T-90 is ex-import. Less is known about the tests conducted against it, because it was not developed locally & hence manufacturer conducted tests are known only to the user & supplier! BTW, its not as if the Russian side has not revealed details about the T-series armor either.

So still without open to public armor tests, You statements about Arjun superiority is just pure fanboy'ism.

The Arjun is a heavy MBT

No such thing as heavy MBT exists, there are only MBT's, maybe You amateurs learn proper nomenclature before You start discussion. ...

and is overall superior to the T-90 across the board,

Proove it.

The Arjun in contrast is a highly tested product.

Really? Any proof of that? And T-90 was not highly tested before Russian Army fielded it? belive me, Russian test standards are much more hard that these of Indian Army.

Go & look up the latest IA video on the Armoured Corps at NDTV and what the officer says about the Arjun!

So what he says something? One officer in Poland said that 9M14 ATGM is capabale to destroy any MBT, even hitting front armor, that is absolute BS... but yeah, officer said so, so amateur will belive in anything...

 

[Archer]

My, favorite Forum is alive as I see - good

@Blood
8kg for sabot + rod (penetrator)
or
8kg for rod (penetrator)

It's big difference.

Becouse Ajrun Mk.I have enormous, impossible to shield, weak areas. In other tanks there is no such thing. Even old Leo2A4 have smaller and better protected weak areas.

Unless you are aware of the Arjuns armor placement, you have just been speculating here. The Leo2A4 was the basis of the original Arjun design. But India moved far ahead later in terms of armor requirements.

Germany:
[/B][/B]

USA:

India:

As You can see - Indian 120mm AFSDS have smaller L-D ratio. Rather like in DM-33 or at best variant like in M829.
Even if the pressure in the chamber is bigger performance will not be great.
Rather like in Dm-33 or M829 (470-550mm RHA for 2000m) - per analogy to other known projectiles.

It's to little to kill T-80UD "face to face"

Sorry, but you are looking at yesterdays info and projecting it to the future. The Arjun ammunition - referred to as MK1 120MM was designed to Army requirements projected sometime back & used to validate the gun ammo system. But improved variants are being worked on, and even otherwise, India has the option of using a variety of modern 120mm rounds & even license manufacturing them as it did with other programs.

 

[Damian]

Unless you are aware of the Arjuns armor placement,

Yes we are aware of armor placement.

But India moved far ahead later in terms of armor requirements.

Yes, and the rest of world just stop their development and waited for India?

India has the option of using a variety of modern 120mm rounds & even license manufacturing them as it did with other programs.

Really so explain me, how You will manufacture ammunition that can't be fired from Rifled gun? Because all 120mm ammo is for smoothbore guns and British ammunition for rifled guns is 3 piece ammunition. So how You would do that? Magic?

The Arjun ammunition - referred to as MK1 120MM was designed to Army requirements projected sometime back & used to validate the gun ammo system. But improved variants are being worked on,

So where are these improved variants? Oh wait, let me guess, DRDO afraid to show them?