Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[asianobserve]

The picture of that tank factory is totally uninspiring...

 

[p2prada]

The prettiest picture of the T-90 IMO, looks menacing.

The picture of that tank factory is totally uninspiring...

That's how they look like. Aircraft assembly lines are a lot cleaner.

 

[Storm shadow]

Those figures for other guns are not max pressures. The max pressure of the 2A46M2 is 8500bars. The max pressure for L-55 is well above 9000bars and perhaps even comes closer to 9500bars. Tankies never use max pressure. Arjun will fire at 6200bars, L-55 will fire at 7600bars.

But currently there is no FSAPDS rounds that are fired at peak chamber pressure of 7600 Bar!!The most high energy propeled round in Europe is the Rheinmetall DM 53 which is fired between 5800-5900 Bar.And the M289A1 is fired at 5600 Bar.If the Rheinmetall L55 had maximum chamber pressure of 9500 Bar,the Germans would never have restricted to 'just' 590 MPa for DM53.So,the 7600 Bar max limit for Rh L55 seems to be correct or may be 8200-8400 Bar at most but not more than that.
Besides,the L55 is widely known to have max pressure of 500 Bar greater than L44/M256.So even if we assume that L44/M256 has maximum chamber pressurf of 7600-8000 Bar,the Rheinmetall L55's will be 8100-8500 Bar which again comes very close to my above estimation.
1.http://www.defense-update.com/products/digits/120ke.html
2.ATK - Conventional 120mm Tank Ammunition: ATK's 120mm ammunition is the most advanced in the world
3.Army Guide - DM 53, Round

By the way,if it's true that DM 53 is fired at 590 MPa,then there shouldn't be any trouble for the ARDE L52 as the current round is fired at 620 MPa.Infact they should seriously think to buy a licence for DM53 penetration cores which will be mated with Indian charges.This way,the 30 MPa of extra pressure can compensate shorter barrel lenghth and loss of some pressure from grooves of the rifled barrel.What do you guys think??
REGARDS. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[p2prada]

The L-55 is above 9000 bars. But the shells fired at different pressures follow a different principle than the proof tests which give max breaking pressures.

The M829A3 is a heavy shell and is fired at lower pressure than, say the 3BM42, but there are other forces that compensates for lesser pressure. The smaller L44 gun with the A3 gives only a slightly higher capability than the DM-53 fired from the L-55. But DM-53 kills the already short life of the L-55. The Arjun's gun may not be able to handle an equivalent discharge as the L-55 without a more capable round than the DM-53.

Technically if the DM-53 can be used in a rifle bore then LRDE's gun should be able to fire it.

 

[Damian]

But DM-53 kills the already short life of the L-55.

Let's say that I know from one source that guns barrel life values are higher than these shown to public. But I do not have precise values.

 

[Storm shadow]

But currently there is no FSAPDS rounds that are fired at peak chamber pressure of 7600 Bar!!The most high energy propeled round in Europe is the Rheinmetall DM 53 which is fired between 5800-5900 Bar.And the M289A1 is fired at 5600 Bar.If the Rheinmetall L55 had maximum chamber pressure of 9500 Bar,the Germans would never have restricted to 'just' 590 MPa for DM53.So,the 7600 Bar max limit for Rh L55 seems to be correct or may be 8200-8400 Bar at most but not more than that.
Besides,the L55 is widely known to have max pressure of 500 Bar greater than L44/M256.So even if we assume that L44/M256 has maximum chamber pressurf of 7600-8000 Bar,the Rheinmetall L55's will be 8100-8500 Bar which again comes very close to my above estimation.
1.http://www.defense-update.com/products/digits/120ke.html
2.ATK - Conventional 120mm Tank Ammunition: ATK's 120mm ammunition is the most advanced in the world
3.Army Guide - DM 53, Round

By the way,if it's true that DM 53 is fired at 590 MPa,then there shouldn't be any trouble for the ARDE L52 as the current round is fired at 620 MPa.Infact they should seriously think to buy a licence for DM53 penetration cores which will be mated with Indian charges.This way,the 30 MPa of extra pressure can compensate shorter barrel lenghth and loss of some pressure from grooves of the rifled barrel.What do you guys think??
REGARDS. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The L-55 is above 9000 bars. But the shells fired at different pressures follow a different principle than the proof tests which give max breaking pressures.

The M829A3 is a heavy shell and is fired at lower pressure than, say the 3BM42, but there are other forces that compensates for lesser pressure. The smaller L44 gun with the A3 gives only a slightly higher capability than the DM-53 fired from the L-55. But DM-53 kills the already short life of the L-55. The Arjun's gun may not be able to handle an equivalent discharge as the L-55 without a more capable round than the DM-53.


Well,I tried but couldn't find any source but it may be true.
By the way,there is no reason that DM 53 can't be fired from ARDE L52 as the current rounds are fired at much higher chamber pressure than DM53.A little modification in the sabots should do the job....

 

[p2prada]

Let's say that I know from one source that guns barrel life values are higher than these shown to public. But I do not have precise values.

Heard it is 500 EFC for L-55, but is comparatively higher for the L-44. Even 1000 EFC would still give it a short life compared to other contemporary gun. But I doubt the Germans are complaining about it.

Exact values will not be known, maybe better metallurgy and manufacturing processes can be used to increase life. If we increased EFC performance by a factor of 7X on 2A46, Germans are very much capable of doing the same.

Most people don't know this aspect. All the Hee-Haws to our west will still bring up old values from Fofanov of the 2A46 to compare the Indian T-72 with their Type 85s.

 

[Damian]

AFAIK the values are higher and depends on used ammunition. But in general, 1 APFSDS will still wear barrel like 4 HEAT rounds.

 

[p2prada]

Do you know the ratio of HEAT to APFSDS in the T-90. AFAIK, HEAT is more.

 

[Damian]

It depends on armed forces using vehicle, on doctrine, threats that can be seen on the battlefield etc.

 

[p2prada]

Ah! Like an aircraft. Common sense.

 

[Damian]

Sure, for example in US Armed Forces in M1 tanks, if there is higher probability to face tanks and other heavy armored vehicles, M1's will be most probably loaded with ~30 APFSDS (M829, M829A1, M829A2, M829A3 or KEW, KEW-A1 or KEW-A2) and ~10-12 HEAT/MPAT/HE (M830, M830A1, M908 or M1028 ) rounds, in Iraq after invasion when probability of facing tanks were 0, ammo load for main guns was a mix of M830 HEAT, M830A1 MPAT, M908 HEOR and M1028 Cannister rounds.

 

[Austin]

T-90MS Walkaround

Gallery - Category: T-90MS-Magic of Models

 

[p2prada]

Any idea what that is;

 

[Austin]

I can just guess it since this is located behind armoured store boxes they would be some kind of armoured kit to store some ammo or other equipment related to maintenance.

 

[p2prada]

I can just guess it since this is located behind armoured store boxes they would be some kind of armoured kit to store some ammo or other equipment related to maintenance.

I thought the same. But it is quite awkward if that thing only carries one round. Perhaps the 9M119. There are 6 inside and 1 outside???

 

[Damian]

It is not storage box, it is deep water fording kit element, it is a snorkel mounted on gunner hatch in special smaller hatch.

You can actually see snorkel hatch in gunner hatch on one T-90 behind.

You can see how snorkel is mounted and it's storage tube on turret rear.

 

[p2prada]

So, it is for storage. But for holding the Snorkeling equipment.

 

[Damian]

Yup, it is a rather simple equipment, compared to Brod/Brod-M system for T-80B and T-80U.

Some western tanks like M1, Leopard 2 or Leclerc also have fording equipment.

 

[p2prada]

We are better off with the smaller one. The disadvantage on T-90 is the crew cannot get out through the tube in case of emergencies.