Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

This was the first article. This was followed by another where OFB officials are quoted saying they were successful with replacing the Russian armour with Kanchan 130mm inserts. They talk about the gun in the same article as well. Unfortunately cannot find it. Will post it whenever it shows itself again.

If officials say 130mm, then it could very well be 130mm.

This have no sense, special armor cavity in T-90S welded turret is much bigger than 130mm thick insert... it have no sense at all, so there is more air in cavity than armor?

If this is true Your goverment is just making these tanks inferior to Pakistani T-80UD's and Chinese ZTZ-99 series.

Look here, some MBT's armor thickness messures made by Militarysta some time ago, as I understand in such thick cavieties Your engeeners would put only 130mm thick armor inserts?



T-90S with welded turret have frontal armor thick at 30 degrees from turret center line ~600mm, it Your informations are true it is completely stupid to put there only 130mm of insert... where is logic?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Karna uses the Arjuns turret. It's design is different from the T-90s.

Drawa-T FCS, Israeli TI(forgot the name), Indian radios, navigation and LWS etc. Then we have K-5 ERA over that. 1000 odd tanks will have a similar upgrade in few years. IA may be looking at other alternatives from Russia and Israel for more upgrades.
Polish firm to upgrade India�s T-72 battle tanks - Express India

Glad to hear the info..

Karna and Arjun use different turrets in terms of Armour density and mass, So does does the architectures of Karna`s turret specifically deign to fit over T-72 chassis..

T-72m1 is getting updated from multiple firms, like from Polish firm, US, Indian, Israeli too, K5 was never offered or considered for Indian T-72s,

The reason to update like this is to decrease the time interval for upgrading these vintages for next 5-6 years, But on the dark side it increase logistical problems as they are using various types of hardware from different firms..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This have no sense, special armor cavity in T-90S welded turret is much bigger than 130mm thick insert... it have no sense at all, so there is more air in cavity than armor?
Look here, some MBT's armor thickness messures made by Militarysta some time ago, as I understand in such thick cavieties Your engeeners would put only 130mm thick armor inserts?
T-90S with welded turret have frontal armor thick at 30 degrees from turret center line ~600mm, it Your informations are true it is completely stupid to put there only 130mm of insert... where is logic?

130mm of Armour may be coz of wrong reporting, Some time Journalist get confused between tech terminology..

 

[militarysta]

OK, more stuff.

About only LOS thickness.
Of course, LOS is not armour protection, but bigger LOS give more space for pasive, active and reactive layers in armour.




(Leopard2A4 Im in 100% sure )


(M1 i M1A1 Im almost sure - Damian and I has been working on it for a long time)

(Well - I'was banned for British MoD "media officer" for this draw so, propably it can by correct ;-))



Some LOS estimates. I do not know how much they are correct - error can be about 10%:

Russian T-90A was posted before.

From russian forums-no bloody idea how accurate is that:


T-72B:

T-80U:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Any drawing on Original T-72M1 ( Monkey Model ) on Armour density ?

Thnx..

 

[militarysta]

@Damian
@Kunal Biswas

130mm can be correct - it can by only "single" layer thickness. All "special armour" have many leyers. Co it can by: 2-3 130mm thick layer of this armour.

It can be two rows of the cast cells filled with polymer separated by steel plate. All can be "packed" beetwen thinner steel plates, and have total "module thickness" about 130mm.

And special armour can have many this "module" separated by something

 

[Damian]

130mm can be correct - it can by only "single" layer thickness. All "special armour" have many leyers. Co it can by: 2-3 130mm thick layer of this armour.

This changes everything yes, but still, these goverment official informations are not too accurate I must say. Probably same way the British MoD doing it, the same Indian MoD is doing it... I mean they wan't to hide all weak points of their designs or decisions.

 

[militarysta]

Any drawing on Original T-72M1 ( Monkey Model ) on Armour density ?

Thnx..

Ech....well..it's not my production, but it's correct:




As You can see - T-72 is poor.

Here are Leopard2 during production:

 

[Damian]

M1A1/M1A2 turrets in Lima Army Tank Plant/Joint Systems Manufacturing Center in Lima, Ohio, USA.

 

[Damian]

First two photos are Challenger 2 prototype turret interior, third photo is Challenger 1 turret without special armor (Burlington) mounted.

Russian T-90A after drastic armor tests.

 

[militarysta]

Leopard2A5,A6,A7 NxRA armour:












In idea (damage APFSDS penetrator before it hit turret) is simmilar to the Kontakt-5 or Relickt. But it works in other way.

This is simmilar, but rateher not as good polish NERA panel:



NxRA/NERA mass efficiency is 4-4,5

One NxRA panel on Leo2A5-A7 weight 500kg. They are two pannels (2x500kg = 1000kg).

 

[p2prada]

This have no sense, special armor cavity in T-90S welded turret is much bigger than 130mm thick insert... it have no sense at all, so there is more air in cavity than armor?

Look here, some MBT's armor thickness messures made by Militarysta some time ago, as I understand in such thick cavieties Your engeeners would put only 130mm thick armor inserts?

That's not the only thing. For every layer of composite, the T-90 may have 3 or more layers of equivalent RHA steel.

For eg: Even this author says the same,

Armor Basics
From page 12,

Turret front features 280mm cast and a 130mm insert from for a total of 430mm near the gun to 540mm LOS thickness at the turret corners. While the T-80B maximum armor level of the is reported to be 500mm KE armor and the front turret thickness is about 440mm with an 130mm insert for a LOS thickness of 530mm in the "žweakened zone" and the corners.

The T-90 may feature a much higher layer of RHA. Also we may be assuming out of turn by considering the T-90 may have only 1 composite insert instead of 2 as militarysta has already pointed out. The official has only said the insert is 130mm, not the entire armour.

 

[militarysta]

Damian - You forgot:

[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/t90akoyp9.jpg/]

[/URL]


;-)

 

[p2prada]

Russian T-90A after drastic armor tests.

T-90 looks FUGLY without the ERA.

 

[militarysta]

@Up,

oh, try to find Ob.187 ;-)

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Damian - You forgot:

;-)

Rare Pic..

Frontal armour penetration on turret..

Any more info, Is it with K5 or without one, Is it RPG-29 ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

T-90 looks FUGLY without the ERA.

Better View..

 

[p2prada]

Karna and Arjun use different turrets in terms of Armour density and mass, So does does the architectures of Karna`s turret specifically deign to fit over T-72 chassis..

Not exactly, look at the pics.

Regular T-72M1

Tank-Ex

[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

Arjun

It's been redesigned, but not to the point where it needs specific armour modifications. The LOS would be very similar to Arjun's turret.

 

[militarysta]

Better View..

Congratulation You find Ob.187 It was never been successor T-72 family, with copy one of the best turret -propably from T-84)

 

[p2prada]

@Up,

oh, try to find Ob.187 ;-)

Best sources indicate the tank was cancelled because it hurt the eyes.