Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

I dont indulge in politics nor do i like dictators but fact remains a fact that M1 failed in hitting targets, engine and transmission broke down mid way, and lastly, it was tested for few months not just once or twice, same was with contemporary candidates (Type-85IIM failed initially, even UD and AK struggled in Thar desert region).

This is nothing more than insinuations. There is no proof that vehicle failed during trails, neither any source that you use, says anything about months of tests.

There is no shame for an export M1 failing the harshest terrain in both India and Pakistan combined.

Of course not, and not this is a problem. The problem is a story made by some incompetent officers and politicians, who use this silly story, to cover up their incompetence and the real reason why Americans showed them their middle finger as they are or were unreliable partners for USA.

Also @Kunal Biswas who is a person with large experience with fire arms on range, says here some interesting things.

 

[Dazzler]

All cooked up stories, USA went back on sale becuse of its differences with Pakistan on its nuclear ambition then... Pakistan on its part floated the madeup story once they knew they are not getting the toy...

they were asking 5 milion a pop for it

 

[Damian]

And? These photos are proof of what? Their resolution is poor and it would be rather difficult to say something about gunnery trails based on them.

they were asking 5 milion a pop for it

Which is a reasonable price, not to mention customer services during product service life and logistical support Americans allways offer with their products.

 

[Dazzler]

And? These photos are proof of what? Their resolution is poor and it would be rather difficult to say something about gunnery trails based on them.



Which is a reasonable price, not to mention customer services during product service life and logistical support Americans allways offer with their products.

proof of missing the target, twice atleast

 

[bose]

they were asking 5 milion a pop for it

Pakistan was a darling to USA until then... money was not the consideration...

 

[Damian]

proof of missing the target, twice atleast

Really? And how you are capable to say so? Allah gave you a hint?

Seriously did you ever seen a tanks gunnery range? Beyond 500 meters without good high resolutions optics it might start to be difficult to see if target was hit or not, and tanks have gunnery ranges of more than 1000 meters.

Or perhaps you hoped that if such a paper target is hit by even HE projectile it explodes like in Hollywood movies?

So no, targets do not explode, and even HE projectiles leaves small, barely noticable from longer range hole.

Not to mention that these photos have very poor resolution that it would be very difficult to notice any details on these paper shields.

 

[Dazzler]

Really? And how you are capable to say so? Allah gave you a hint?

Seriously did you ever seen a tanks gunnery range? Beyond 500 meters without good high resolutions optics it might start to be difficult to see if target was hit or not, and tanks have gunnery ranges of more than 1000 meters.

yes i have, thrice, 85III, and AK, near Bahawalpur.

 

[Dazzler]

Pakistan was a darling to USA until then... money was not the consideration...

the deal was not offered through FMS assistance rather Pak had to pay for it from own pocket, Zia was willing for it, Aslam Beg differed on the basis of trials.

 

[Damian]

yes i have, thrice, 85III, and AK, near Bahawalpur.

So I am surprised that you write such bollocks that these targets were missed based on poor resolution of these photos.

Not to mention that we actually don't know what vehicle is firing at these targets.


The second vide is a high quality version for comparision.

Here is a video from M1's gunnery practice. Targets are black and even then, when hit by target, there are no visible markings at such a distance from which gunnery range was filmed.

Thank you, this and many more similiar videos, cuts any speculations from your end. And proves what @<a href="http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/member.php?u=4163" target="_blank">Kunal Biswas</a> said.

 

[Dazzler]

So I am surprised that you write such bollocks that these targets were missed based on poor resolution of these photos.

Not to mention that we actually don't know what vehicle is firing at these targets.

you dont need sharp eyes to see the smoke behind the target mark in this pic or do you?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Regarding small arm range, The target are placed before a sand / soil dune and a brick / concrete wall, So that rounds get trapped in them and does not deflect or goes further range borders ..

In case here, The target are placed before a sand dune, The Practice shells hit the target sheet and then landed over sand dune, Due to sheer kinetic force these are impact effect not from explosion..

The shells can be from T-59 ..

And? These photos are proof of what? Their resolution is poor and it would be rather difficult to say something about gunnery trails based on them..

 

[Damian]

And @Kunal Biswas is right.

Watch also video I posted on previous page in two versions, poor quality like your photos and high quality.

Even in high quality video it is difficult to see any markings from projectile on target as such distance.

 

[bose]

the deal was not offered through FMS assistance rather Pak had to pay for it from own pocket, Zia was willing for it, Aslam Beg differed on the basis of trials.

That makes the case for cooked up story more stronger... Pakistan knew it will not get it and hence the beautiful story...

 

[SilentKiller]

proof of missing the target, twice atleast

welll sir a correction.

1 shot missed or not can't say but its 1 shot, 1st and 2nd pics a few sec apart if you try and follow the dust pattern.
and seems to be taken from different angle.

anyway its good pak didn't got M1 any way..as anytime pak get some new weapons it thinks they r world class and they will use them and destroy their enemy and still finally it makes fool out of itself.
till 90's USA made a fool out of pakistan and used it as it please, stabbed it as it pleased.
and now china is doing same, making a fool out of you.
has china came to your help in kargil war?
has USA helped you in 71 war?
has USA openly supported u in 65 war?

u are just making enemies most of the time and for remaining acting as slaves, pak became free in 47 on paper but its leaders kept it as a slave for themself or for others, what a joke!!.

 

[Damian]

More BM "Oplot".

 

[Dazzler]

The shells can be from T-59 ..

Nope, its certainly not from type-59 barrel

 

[Dazzler]

welll sir a correction.

1 shot missed or not can't say but its 1 shot, 1st and 2nd pics a few sec apart if you try and follow the dust pattern.
and seems to be taken from different angle.

anyway its good pak didn't got M1 any way..as anytime pak get some new weapons it thinks they r world class and they will use them and destroy their enemy and still finally it makes fool out of itself.
till 90's USA made a fool out of pakistan and used it as it please, stabbed it as it pleased.
and now china is doing same, making a fool out of you.
has china came to your help in kargil war?
has USA helped you in 71 war?
has USA openly supported u in 65 war?

u are just making enemies most of the time and for remaining acting as slaves, pak became free in 47 on paper but its leaders kept it as a slave for themself or for others, what a joke!!.

Dear friend,, though i agree with some of your points but arguing on them willl drift this thread and i am sure none of us would want that

 

[Dazzler]

type-59 basic 100mm barrel

 

[Dazzler]

barrels, barrels,,

from right to left, AlZarrar, AlKhalid and T-80UD

 

[Dazzler]