Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

Looks simillar?

Similiar but not the same. Similiarity cames because of the same overall concept. However Kharkiv turret is different in several aspects.

if Chris BV being a tanker didnt know whether it was DM-43 or 33A1 that he fired from Leo 2s, its quite ironic.

Firing newer ammunition like DM53 and DM63 from Leopard 2A4 might be problematic, because it's gun needs some modifications to fire these rounds.

Militarysta point is then valid, that most likely, second hand Leopard 2A4's are sold with DM33 or in best case DM43, both of which are not considered as modern by NATO standards.

 

[Dazzler]

Similiar but not the same. Similiarity cames because of the same overall concept. However Kharkiv turret is different in several aspects.



Firing newer ammunition like DM53 and DM63 from Leopard 2A4 might be problematic, because it's gun needs some modifications to fire these rounds.

Militarysta point is then valid, that most likely, second hand Leopard 2A4's are sold with DM33 or in best case DM43, both of which are not considered as modern by NATO standards.

L55 + DM-53, 63 combo was out of their grasp surely, not to mention Germans have not offered them for export yet, atleast they would have asked for DM-43s to attain parity with Chillean 2A5s.

 

[Dazzler]

Looks simillar?

look similar? yes

are similar? Nope,

clear differences in turret dynamics visible in this pic.

 

[Damian]

Chillean 2A5s.

Eh? Chile use Leopard 2A4's, and as far as I know, Germans are negotiating sell of Leopard 2A5 tanks with Poland, not Chile.

 

[militarysta]

if Chris BV being a tanker didnt know whether it was DM-43 or 33A1 that he fired from Leo 2s, its quite ironic.

DM43 was not produce in bigger numbers, so I doubt, DM33A1 was higt possible couse it's "standard" ammo given whit Leo-2A4 from Bundeshweer stocks. And serial 2A4 can't fire DM53 and DM63.

 

[militarysta]

Similiar but not the same. Similiarity cames because of the same overall concept. However Kharkiv turret is different in several aspects.

Well as I read - better HHS plates, and diffrent roof build, LOS mesurment shown slight smaller LOS value (strange...) from front to backplate, but geometry, and mantled geometry are almoust the same...and overal dimensions.

 

[militarysta]

L55 + DM-53, 63 combo was out of their grasp surely, not to mention Germans have not offered them for export yet, atleast they would have asked for DM-43s to attain parity with Chillean 2A5s.

Chillean 2A4 use DM-33A1 as I know, and all test during Peru trade was whit scenario as DM-33A1 enemy. Fire test on Poland where done whit using DM-33A1 against PT-91 model, and in Polish militray press where adntation only on expected (as Peru enemy) Leo-2A4 armour level and as thread only DM-33A1 level.
So it's not suprise that chineese 2006 ammo reacht german 1987 level It can be even slighty better.

But those quote about " the best currently offered by the Republic of China, comparable to that available for the Leopard 2 by Rheinmetall. " funny becouse it could be " comparable to that available for the Leopard 2A4 in this particular case - so DM-33A.
DM-53 and DM-63 just "eat" almoust all other ammo patern - only M829A3 and Sniviets (3BM59/60) have simmilar "power". And DM-63 and older 53 slighty "eat" almoust all known ERA - maybe exept guite uniqe ukrainian Duplet/Knife.

 

[Andrei_bt]

what about Columbia, did they reached desision to buy Leo-2?

 

[Akim]

@Akim, @Lubov, please help us out with translations.

Sorry, if i make a mistake in translation

 

[pmaitra]

Thank you @Akim.

Spacibo -

 

[Sovngard]

Sorry, if i make a mistake in translation

Thanks again !

But concerning the T-80UK armor layout, I guess that corymbs means petals and рассевания means dissipation.

 

[Dazzler]

 

[Dazzler]

funny, a T-34 well maintained and operational, the last one though..

 

[Andrei_bt]

very interesting, is a video availible?

 

[Dazzler]

Chillean 2A4 use DM-33A1 as I know, and all test during Peru trade was whit scenario as DM-33A1 enemy. Fire test on Poland where done whit using DM-33A1 against PT-91 model, and in Polish militray press where adntation only on expected (as Peru enemy) Leo-2A4 armour level and as thread only DM-33A1 level.
So it's not suprise that chineese 2006 ammo reacht german 1987 level It can be even slighty better.

But those quote about " the best currently offered by the Republic of China, comparable to that available for the Leopard 2 by Rheinmetall. " funny becouse it could be " comparable to that available for the Leopard 2A4 in this particular case - so DM-33A.
DM-53 and DM-63 just "eat" almoust all other ammo patern - only M829A3 and Sniviets (3BM59/60) have simmilar "power". And DM-63 and older 53 slighty "eat" almoust all known ERA - maybe exept guite uniqe ukrainian Duplet/Knife.

Chris BV put all those rumors to rest which stated MBT 2000 couldnt fulfill any of the requirements, seems like it did fulfill all of them, heck, it was the vanilla version that lacked even an RWS. It does have a good FCS from the beginning though.

 

[Dazzler]

very interesting, is a video availible?

Major Hasnain (guy in the pic) stated during trials, M1 Abrams was bettered by a type-59, mentions the firing report of the two.

 

[Dazzler]

very interesting, is a video availible?

here u go...


to see the mbt part, watch from 30 min onwards

 

[Dazzler]

T-90S turret up close......

side view

 

[Akim]

рассевания .

Эффективная площадь рассеивания - English version Radar cross-section

 

[Damian]

Major Hasnain (guy in the pic) stated during trials, M1 Abrams was bettered by a type-59, mentions the firing report of the two.

Which I proved to be a false story. And I don't know how primitive Type-59 could be better, this thing does not have even fire control system. Do You know how difficult is to hit anything beyond 1000 meters without fire control system? I guess not.

Pakistanis are funny with their funny statements.

Seriously, try to use a stadia range reticle, and hit targets with better accuracy than a modern fire control system with laser range finder and ballistic computer can. It is just immposible to achieve such results.

Oh BTW, this TV show is also funny. Non existing meritoric value, some good shots which might provide limited material for analisis. Nothing more really.