Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[asianobserve]

 

[Damian]

This is actually not the real project, but some students work.

In fact the main armament design is idiotic, it lenghtens loading process and do not permitt to keep a gun on a target.

And how many crewmemebers can sit inside? One? This is even more idiotic.

Similiar concept of a single crew tank was studied in UK, I think in 1950's-1960's, and was quickly abandoned as inefficent.

 

[The Last Stand]

This is actually not the real project, but some students work.

In fact the main armament design is idiotic, it lenghtens loading process and do not permitt to keep a gun on a target.

Very little space for power pack, crew, fuel, etc. If it is RC, do they think that a tank is so simple that it can be used like an RC toy? Imagine the electronic complexity with all those transmitters, if so and the associated problems.

Israeli Army will be like if somebody makes them use this.

 

[Damian]

Very little space for power pack, crew, fuel, etc. If it is RC, do they think that a tank is so simple that it can be used like an RC toy? Imagine the electronic complexity with all those transmitters, if so and the associated problems.

Israeli Army will be like if somebody makes them use this.

IDF have it's own design bureu (MANTAK) that only purpose is to design MBT's and vehicles based on them, they do not need work of some student or students.

On the other hand it is very interesting, IDF is the only armed forces today, that design MBT's mostly on their own, without a state owned or private owned company help. Israeli companies later mostly just manufacture some components, while complete vehicles are manufactured by IDF Ordnance Corps.

 

[Dazzler]

As Damian says, Fanboyism.



A quick and dirty estimation gave me 618.8 mm as the worst result (on this image, with other images on comparison) when using a top view image with no perspective distortion. The image is extremely accurate, and was made by militarysta.

An estimation using a Chinese 2D drawing which had an abnormally gun diameter (not the barrel) and mantlet, I got around 890.4 mm.

My best guess would be ~700 mm of armour, maximum on the front turret

@Damian @militarysta @methos @STGN @Dejawolf @Kunal Biswas @pmaitra @W.G.Ewald @sayareakd @ersakthivel

I will follow up tomorrow.

Dazzler, this image you supplied could be in wrong proportions. Have no time now.

@militarysta, !damian, methos, @Akim @Dejawolf


Friends,

A few thngs need to be straightened here.

* Its not a Fanboy or propaganda poster rather an estimation by an ex-military man, isnt this what some of you guys do all the time?

* Estimate is an approximate value which is the capacity of being correct, partially correct or wrong so dont take it too seriously

* IF it is correct, it is a resonable value considering the fact it is form an mbt that is no longer in the frontline service, rather fills the second tier

 

[Damian]

* Its not a Fanboy or propaganda poster rather an estimation by an ex-military man, isnt this what some of you guys do all the time?

Estimations needs to be done correctly, if somone starts to make ridiculous claims than he is fanboy or propagandist.

* Estimate is an approximate value which is the capacity of being correct, partially correct or wrong so dont take it too seriously

As above, everything is ok if it is done in reasonable way.

 

[Dazzler]

After 23 or 30mm round it will bo no fins (ZU-23-2 or BMP-2)

dont tell me this was done by a mere 23 or 30 mm round? the diameter is too big which is the hallmark of a HEAT or atleast a mediocre penetrator :O

if the 23 or 30 mm round thingy is true, this is one weak front composite shell.

 

[Dazzler]

What do you know about "Aorak "? it is a "Contact (4c22)" non licensed copy, if you where inside tank you may think another wise.

you need to get out of the frame that things remain stagnant

Even outside Ukriane things are researched and developed, Russian 4S22 became 4S23 Relikt, 4s24 Kaktus and so on so is the case with Pakistan, Aorak 1 emerged in 2004-05 since than there have been improvements, i have seen modules of various sizes and thickness one of which resembles the Kontakt-5. They dont have AARDIC worth 50 million $ R&D center per year for nothing.

 

[The Last Stand]

dont tell me this was done by a mere 23 or 30 mm round? the diameter is too big which is the hallmark of a HEAT or atleast a mediocre penetrator :O

if the 23 or 30 mm round thingy is true, this is one weak front composite shell.

HEAT rounds create incredibly small holes. @Damian has some images that might interest you.

 

[farhan_9909]

you need to get out of the frame that things remain stagnant

Even outside Ukriane things are researched and developed, Russian 4S22 became 4S23 Relikt, 4s24 Kaktus and so on so is the case with Pakistan, Aorak 1 emerged in 2004-05 since than there have been improvements, i have seen modules of various sizes and thickness one of which resembles the Kontakt-5. They dont have AARDIC worth 50 million $ R&D center per year for nothing.

110million dollars not 50millions.

 

[Damian]

HEAT rounds create incredibly small holes. @Damian has some images that might interest you.

Not all times, diameter of hole depends on diameter of shaped charge jet, which depends on diameter of the warhead.

 

[Damian]

Object 478DU5.

 

[Damian]

Interesting thing that I learned few days ago, don't know if I posted it already, if yes then sorry for a repost but.

As we know, most modern tanks FCS permitts to fire accurately conventional ammunition only to 3,000-4,000m, in the past to fire at range of 5,000m with high accuracy, you needed gun launched ATGM.

Well it seems that new FCS installed in M1A2SEP permitts to fire accurately conventional, unguided ammunition up to range of 5,000m, which is very impressive. Also very helpfull are new sights with zoom up to 50x which gives gunner and tank commander, capability to identify target over very long distance, and aim more precisely, than optics in probably most if not all other MBT's.

There are some other goodies in this new FCS and sights, like high resolution thermal sight (which is nothing unique these days), and some sort of focus function for thermal sights, I assume it is used to clear their image even more for better identification.

 

[militarysta]

Interesting thing that I learned few days ago, don't know if I posted it already, if yes then sorry for a repost but.

As we know, most modern tanks FCS permitts to fire accurately conventional ammunition only to 3,000-4,000m, in the past to fire at range of 5,000m with high accuracy, you needed gun launched ATGM.

Well it seems that new FCS installed in M1A2SEP permitts to fire accurately conventional, unguided ammunition up to range of 5,000m, which is very impressive. Also very helpfull are new sights with zoom up to 50x which gives gunner and tank commander, capability to identify target over very long distance, and aim more precisely, than optics in probably most if not all other MBT's.

There are some other goodies in this new FCS and sights, like high resolution thermal sight (which is nothing unique these days), and some sort of focus function for thermal sights, I assume it is used to clear their image even more for better identification.

Intresting, german DM11 is prepared to fire up to 5000m in Leo-2A5-A7 whit exist FCS. But no idea about FCS changes.

 

[Damian]

Intresting, german DM11 is prepared to fire up to 5000m in Leo-2A5-A7 whit exist FCS. But no idea about FCS changes.

Danish Leopard 2A5DK have two variants, one designated Leopard 2A5A1DK which can fire DM11 but I think it can't program it's fuze, and second more advanced Leopard 2A5A2DK which have fuze programmer installed.

 

[Dazzler]

composite metallic armor patent 1994,



Patent US5290637 - Composite metallic armor - Google Patents

 

[Blood+]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Guys,what might be the possible protection value of front hull armor of the modern tanks like Leo 2A6,M1A2,Leclerc,ZTZ 99A2 etc against KE and shaped charge rounds??

Thanks.

 

[Blood+]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

LOS thickness is somewhere around 350mm, and with a solid block of hardened steel, protection ends up at around 437mm.

Sir,the LOS behind GMS looks more like between 39-41 cm range to me.By the way,what will be the protection value if composit armor is used at that place instead of solid HHA block?

 

[angeldude13]

forced to do so.and the future plans are further much better.of them nuclear submarine is one.

Pakistan never was meant to become what it had become now but all thanks to america and our stupid generals

farhan brother why are you talking sense now a days?
and belated happy independence day to you

 

[militarysta]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Guys,what might be the possible protection value of front hull armor of the modern tanks like Leo 2A6,M1A2,Leclerc,ZTZ 99A2 etc against KE and shaped charge rounds??

Thanks.

Front hull? Well it will be circa 70-80% of turret front protection in typical conditions.
Leopard-2A4 front turret LOS thickness is 84cm, but front hull is only 60cm in 2A5DK, Strv.122, 2A6E/HEL, 2A7 version front hull have double NERA panels so protection is incarase a lot.
M1A2 front turret is circa 96cm LOS thickness, but front hull is 65-70cm thick BUT after this is almoust 1m fuel tank whit special construction, so M1 Abrams have without doubt the best protected hull front from all known tanks now.
T-72B have max 650mm thick hull but there is huge weak spot armound driver periscope.


hull thickness:

here you have my estimatous about Char Leclerc:

and here my values for T-72B model 1989: