Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

Altay turret without addon armor.

 

[The Last Stand]

Altay turret without addon armor.

The people on the photo look like they were dropped using Photoshop. Suspicious. I saw a better picture on Military Photos.

 

[Damian]

Seriously? This is what bothers you the most? I find more interesting things on that photo than people posing in from of the tank.

 

[The Last Stand]

Seriously? This is what bothers you the most? I find more interesting things on that photo than people posing in from of the tank.

Hey, I tend to have an eye for detail.

Me too, but still, I was thinking that, uh, somebody, could've tampered with the image.

The turret is welded, that I can see.

 

[Damian]

What I find interesting about turret is that front turret have definetely rather thick, integrated composite armor cavities, hard to say about turret sides, but there probably, composite armor is only modular. Also turret roof is relatively thick.

 

[militarysta]

Btw - I moved some important post about T-90MS and turrets:

Source is polish article in military press:
Tomasz Szulc,Nowe czołgi naszych wschodnich sąsiadów: T-90MS i Opłot-M, Nowa Technika Wojskowa, 9/2012, s.13-14
Tomasz Szul, The new tanks our estern neighbors: T-90MS i Opłot-M, New Military Technology, 9/2012, p.13-14

BTW: Whole article is very interesting and compare Oplot-M and T-90MS.
Ad rem:
Previously there was no "T-90" tank but deeply modernisated T-72B model 1989 (Ob.184) whit well known armour. The lat T-72 version from Soviet Union was named T-72BU (Ob.188) -this T-72 modernisation first time in Soviet UVZ got normal quite advanced FCS taken from T-80U those FCS was "Irtysz" 1A45T. And this was the biggest difrence between T-72BU (Ob.188) and T-72B model 1989 (Ob.184). From propaganda and marketing resons they changed T-72BU name on T-90 in 5 october 1992. But it was still the same T-72B model 1989 whit cast turret and well known armour.
First foregin export was for India in 2001 while India got 42 redy tanks named T-90S (Ob.188S) whit cast steel turrets -so armour on T-72B model 1989 level.
The second batch in 2002 (82 tanks) got welded turret whit diffrent armour.
(...)
Well Im not sure here,but it's sure that india got:

1) 42 redy tanks in 2001 from Russia - named T-90S (Ob.188S) whit cast steel turrets and well known simple armour from Ob.184 (T-72B) (I had describe it dozens time)
2) second batch in 2002 (82 tanks) got welded turret whit diffrent armour -it's technology impossible that those 82 tanks have the same armour like previous cast turret tanks from 2001. So armour must be diffrent, but from the other hand - there is no way* that Russia sold it's "own" armour - it's some export armour version.

And after that we have contract form 2002 about licence prodyction 186 Bishma tanks - and those tank propably have Indian armour couse Russia doesn't sold armour technolgy to India. Af course Avadi factory was unable to produce those tank (quality and technolgy problems) so in 2007 India bought in Russia next 124 redy and produced only in Russia tanks (so whit export russian armour) and partial-redy kits to licented montage next 223 tanks - propably again whit pure Indian armour.


* I don't know any one example when Soviet/ Russia sold armour/weapons technolgy on it's "own" level. All export variants have "E" or "S" names and they are approved for export - they are just downgraded. Only exceptions are then when some weapons sytem is really outdated but still produced in Russia but the newest version is avaible soon. For exmaple:
Russia sold to India in 2001 those 42 T-90S whit cast turret and armour like in Russian erly T-90S (or T-72B model 1989) so on technology level on middle 1980s., but in the same time new welded turret whit new non-export armour was avaible in Russia and very soon was DOI.
Another example - Russia sold to India 3BM42 outaded rounds (1986) - and those rounds is still in service in Russia (and even produced). But in the same time newest 3BM42M (Lekalo) was avaible and newest- newest 3BM60(?) Sviniec-1 was ended both are not allowed for export still, becouse it's newest and top technology.
So it's sure that russia do the same like US and sold tanks whit export armour, or whit really outaded armour technology.

 

[Andrei_bt]

They all look a bit same, but T-90 and obk.187 by Nii stali have no connection to new kharkiv turrets.

 

[militarysta]

They all look a bit same, but T-90 and obk.187 by Nii stali have no connection to new kharkiv turrets.

OK, new so Oplot-M, T-84 etc, but how about older ones?

since where is those modular turret, and since where is older ones? Can You mark it bellow:

Ob.:
478 -
478Б -
478БК -
478Д -
478ДУ -
478ДУ1 -
478ДУ2 -
478ДУ3 -
478ДУ4 -
478ДУ5 -
478ДУ6 -
478ДУ7 -
478ДУ8 -
478ДУ9 -
478ДУ9-1 -
478ДУ10
478М -
478Н -

As I understand modular form Ob.478ДУ2 to Ob.478Н but erlyier?

Im just interested in this, looks like we have "common soviet welded turret" in 1984 - used on Ob.187 and in 2001 on T-90A, and the same turret was used on Ukrainian T-80UD in 1992 Ob.478BE (and in Pak. T-80UD) but after that Ukrainina industry made next "step ahead" and developed fully modural turret for T-84 and Oplot-M - simmilar in shape but diffrent (modular).

 

[Andrei_bt]

Ob.478BE used Kharkiv designed turret, before this cast turrets were in use.

 

[militarysta]

Ob.478BE used Kharkiv designed turret, before this cast turrets were in use.

Is this turret modular or not?
I guest not.

 

[Damian]

Is this turret modular or not?
I guest not.

He says whole the time, it is the same turret, turret designed in Kharkiv have nothing in common with Object 187/T-90A turret, it is complately Kharkiv design, modular from the very beggining.

 

[militarysta]

He says whole the time, it is the same turret, turret designed in Kharkiv have nothing in common with Object 187/T-90A turret, it is complately Kharkiv design, modular from the very beggining.

I can read simple text in english. It's not the point form me

I repeat - since what ukrainian tank we have "modular turret" and what turret have Ob.478BE -is modular or not?

 

[Damian]

Since Object 478BE the turret is welded and modular.

 

[militarysta]

Since Object 478BE the turret is welded and modular.

And show me Andriej post when he has wrote that Object 478BE turret is modular

btw: T-80UD for pak is not only Ob.478BE as i understand...

IMHO we have since 1991 on Ukriane 3 diffrent turrets:

"old cast"
"new welded" (Ob.478BE)
"new welded modular" (Oplot-M, T-84)

 

[Damian]

He said it is the same turret all along. There is no Kharkiv designed welded turret that is not modular, this turret was modular from the very beggining.

 

[militarysta]

He said it is the same turret all along. There is no Kharkiv designed welded turret that is not modular, this turret was modular from the very beggining.

I would like see this in Andriej_bt post, couse polish (Szulc) press is opposite to this - all articles in NTW welded turret on Ob.478BE and.. Ob.188A1/A2 is present as the same turret from Ob.187 and "welded 1984 turret".
So here is small mess IMHO, and I hav eserious doubts if Kharkiv turret is so super diffrent then "1984 welded turret". And I still don't see post when question about beeing modular in Ob.478BE turret is explain. Of course younger (Oplot-M etc) is modular - Im understand this, but im interested in PakTanks

 

[Damian]

And I still don't see post when question about beeing modular in Ob.478BE turret is explain.

Eh, get back:

It is in my post #6133.

I would like see this in Andriej_bt post, couse polish (Szulc) press is opposite to this - all articles in NTW welded turret on Ob.478BE and.. Ob.188A1/A2 is present as the same turret from Ob.187 and "welded 1984 turret".
So here is small mess IMHO, and I hav eserious doubts if Kharkiv turret is so super diffrent then "1984 welded turret".

It is most likely Tomasz Szulc mistake.

 

[Dazzler]

@Damian @militarysta @methos @Andrei_bt

Can Dyneema be used as a composite layer in mbts apart of body armour?

Antiballistics: The DARPA connection : CompositesWorld

 

[Damian]

@Damian @militarysta @methos @Andrei_bt

Can Dyneema be used as a composite layer in mbts apart of body armour?

Antiballistics: The DARPA connection : CompositesWorld

Yes, it can be part of composition.

 

[Dazzler]

Yes, it can be part of composition.

how good is it? i know is quite brittle yet light but is there any comparison of its characteristics with aluminuim carbide or even boron carbide?