LOC, LAC & IB skirmishs

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IndianHawk

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Hope situation gets back to normal,or may be the situation is already under controlView attachment 18654
This small scale thingy is a bloody joke!!
Chinese can't unilaterally decided what will be the scale of conflict. They might punch us and we might cut their head off . Hope that would qualify as small scale conflict as chinese have small build and small heads not to mention even smaller eyes.:hehe:
Chinese are preparing for that small scale operation for their own internal consumption as their internal political mindset has gone vociferous. They would come in hundreds, all unarmed and try to push Indian out in a hand to hand fight from Doklam.
Bhai in unarmed wrestling with indians Chinese are going to be raped.
This karate thingy only works for people of almost equal build. Light light chinkies might hit indians with their karate chops but there won't be much force into there hands. On the other hand Indian direct punches might just kill weak skulled hans.

More chinese might die in unarmed conflict than in armed one.:hehe:
 

sayareakd

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We have about 3k men in the area, if China/PLA to overrun them they have to attack with 10 times numbers. That means more than 30k man and 30k casualties, we will pump in more men. That where shot war, becomes bloody, long and brutal.

Once it happened we should hit on soft targets with full force.

Every passing day China delays, we become stronger and their prestige become down. Already Pak General is is surprised and think India has upper hand and its dangerious for them and China.

We should practice Sun Tzu with Chanakya niti. Sun Tzu says, 10 timws small force could take put bigger enemy, just play it smart. Tease and frustrate China. We are doing it.

Lets give them war if they want one, but it has to be long war on all front. Let Chinese run for cover. Make them stop all exports and imports. In 25 days they will stop the war. China/PLA wont able to show face in light of bloody nose to anyone.

Now is the time to become great (Modi) rise up to it. We are behind you.
 

SanjeevM

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As I mentioned earlier also, Chinese can't fight with India. Chinese have one child policy. More Chinese soldiers die, more families will lose their only sons. Communist party cannot control the public outcry that the lust of power by CCP made them lose their only children.

These areas are plateaus. Not productive lands and far off from Chinese inhabitants. Still ego of CCP made them lose their only children. It may precipitate a revolt against CCP. Consider the spiralling impact of pro democracy forces joining the revolt. Also if fuelled, Muslims rise against Chinese atrocities and denial to practice their religion.
 

captscooby81

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There is nothing much to look into it .Xi is just transforming himself as the tallest chairman of CPC even trying to dwarf chairman Mao and this military display his power projection for people inside and outside CPC to say indirectly He is going to be the Putin of China and he will not give up his chair so easily in future .

We may never win a war with China but the bloody blow we both will get in a full scale war will end both these countries future ambition s . No walking away without bruises for China in attacking inda


Watch this to understand Xi and PLA
 

Kazah

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There is nothing much to look into it .Xi is just transforming himself as the tallest chairman of CPC even trying to dwarf chairman Mao and this military display his power projection for people inside and outside CPC to say indirectly He is going to be the Putin of China and he will not give up his chair so easily in future .

We may never win a war with China but the bloody blow we both will get in a full scale war will end both these countries future ambition s . No walking away without bruises for China in attacking inda
Both the parties are slowly reducing the number of troops to ease the tension................now it's indian media vs chinese media dick measuring contest.......kuch na hone wala. Matter would fade away till november and chinese will claim we threw india out of dolam and indians will say we kicked chinese out of dolam :biggrin2: bechara bhutan kone me bethke tamaasha dekhega
 

Hari Sud

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How will Pakistan react to India - China stand off in Sikkim - A scenario


Will Pakistan take advantage of Indo -China stand-off in Sikkim?


Very likely, rather a 100% certainty. Pakistanis have been waiting for this opportunity to humble India for years. Also Chinese would wish Pakistanis to take advantage of the situation as soon as possible and settle outstanding issues with India.


This Chinese advice to Pakistan becomes doubly important because Chinese were forced to a stand still at Dokalam firefight, hence instead of opening more fronts and thinning out PLA all along the border, they might ask Pakistan to settle all old scores when they keep India busy on the northern/Tibet or Ladakh front. It is the month of October and winter is approaching fast hence, quick results is all that China wants.


This is how the Pakistani plan to grab Kashmir will pan out. When the Indian Mountain divisions, specially trained for the Himalayan front are busy and national attention is focussed there, Pakistan would create a LOC attack in which they would permit a few of their soldiers to die and claim Indian aggression. They would move to retaliate in kind. This is how the Pakistani attack - to go and grab will work.


1. They would repeat the 1965 attack on Chamb-Jaurian sector. The whole idea is a dash to River Tawi bridgehead. That will cut Kashmir (Srinagar) from rest of India.


2. Like in 1971 they will also initiate a major tank action in Shakargarh to further cut india troops in Kashmir lifeline.


3. All their long range and short range missiles are to be readied, in case India activates the Cold Start war effort.


India would react to this major Pakistani offensive in a calm manner, knowing that the big powers are watching. The Indian calculation here is that it would take anywhere from 4 to 6 days for Pakistani armour to achieve its objectives in both sector. But India knew about Pakistani intents hence had positioned a good part of its armour their to beat them back.

In the meantime an offensive and defensive war gets played out in northern sector in Sikkim, with Chinese making no headway. That is the only reason Chinese winked at Pakistanis to begin their offensive moves. They wanted to relieve pressure on their front sooner than later.

If India thins out on the Northern sector, it is victory which Chinese have been looking for. But surprisingly India did not budge an inch. The defensive battles which India fought at Chamb-Jaurian and at Shakargarh had been beaten back.

Now it is time to initiate Indian Cold Start and teach Pakistanis a lesson.

That is when US and UN gets the wind of upcoming major warfare. US already had their Aircraft Carrier Nimitz in the Arabian Sea. US would not want this flash point to reach a nuclear stage. Hence they send, first a warning then a US general's visits Islamabad but got a polite, no as an answer. Unsatisfied US and fearing a major catastrophe, they decided to act. They follow, their warnings and with UN concurrence, with a short swift strike on Pakistani Army field command and control headquarters. That would cripple all the forward Pakistani troops offensive capabilities and allow Indians to re-capture all territory lost in last three or four days of fighting.

Chinese PLA gets the message and Pakistanis are out of the action. India will stay focussed on the northern front. Situation in Sikkim at best could be described as at stand still. Chinese were unable to teach India a lesson. Mao, Chou, Ding are turning in their graves with disgust.

Emboldened India makes their first ever move to teach Chinese their own first lesson with their Strike Corps of Tanks and troops in action in Ladakh. They move to cut Chinese Akas - Chin road. In a day, Indian Special forces occupy a vantage point overlooking the road. Now the Chinese are forced to react in a hurry. PLA cannot be reinforced from Sinkiang/ Kasghar area because the main road linking Tibet with Sinkiang is blocked. Chinese rush all they can from their Tibet military district. They also get a huge supply dump and troops ready at the China - Tibet Train terminus on Chinese side to be shipped to Lhasa. But they are weary of overhead spy drones and satellites flying. A short swift action by air, which had not been used so far, could cripple the rail line which is partially built on permafrost.

On Indian side similar preparations are underway and Chinese know all about these.

Indian Air Force and Chinese Airforce have not taken part in any shooting matches. They are chief surveillance tools, waiting and watching. The Pakistani Air Force flew a few offensive actions in support of their troops but turned their tail when Indian Planes appeared.

Now the critical point of the war is reached:

A). Pakistanis have been forced to back away.


B). Chinese are at a stand Still at Dokalm


C). Chinese have lost big in Ladakh as their lifeline is under threat.


Hence, what happens next is interesting. Russians, US and European powers jump in the fray. They want these shooting matches to end. They want all troops to go back to April 2017 positions.

That Chinese will not agree ever. If such be the case, then India will manage to retain its offensive advantage both at Dokalam and Ladakh. Pakistanis will stay put with their nuclear weapons and under serious threat of dire consequences from US.

It is end of October and Chinese have lost a lot of face but in no mood to agree to anything. They are preparing for a big war, but one single rail line is not helping to rapidly build up troops in Tibet and Ladakh. They wish to teach India a big lesson and are building a big troop strength for a military victory.

It seems that victory is elusive.

It is the Russian ambassador after his visit to Peking in November tells The world that Chinese will hold talks but on their own terms.....

It seems that shooting war is likely to end soon....


Net result - the Pakistanis lost their face, the Chinese are unable to eject Indians out of Dokalam. The whole world will soon have second thoughts on OROB. India will return from the Akas-Chin road with battle honours.

Dokolam warriors and their sacrifices will wipe out that blot on india of 1962 war.


 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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We have about 3k men in the area, if China/PLA to overrun them they have to attack with 10 times numbers. That means more than 30k man and 30k casualties, we will pump in more men. That where shot war, becomes bloody, long and brutal.

Once it happened we should hit on soft targets with full force.

Every passing day China delays, we become stronger and their prestige become down. Already Pak General is is surprised and think India has upper hand and its dangerious for them and China.

We should practice Sun Tzu with Chanakya niti. Sun Tzu says, 10 timws small force could take put bigger enemy, just play it smart. Tease and frustrate China. We are doing it.

Lets give them war if they want one, but it has to be long war on all front. Let Chinese run for cover. Make them stop all exports and imports. In 25 days they will stop the war. China/PLA wont able to show face in light of bloody nose to anyone.

Now is the time to become great (Modi) rise up to it. We are behind you.
In the area we have around 15 thousand men.In the standoff we have 6000 men..3 plus 3 India and Bhutan.
 

mayfair

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@Hari Sud

Your scenario overlooks the fact that if Napakis make a move in the Shakargarh sector or in Chhamb, IA will swiftly cross the border in the Lahore, Bahawalpur and Rahim Yaar Khan sectors. Unless Napakis station a signifcant number of troops in this region, they are looking at disjointed TSPA formations in North and South. The Indus highway on the West of the river, becomes their only life line and also becomes a killing zone for them.

This will also allow Afghan forces to have a field day on the Western borders.
 

Hari Sud

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@Hari Sud

Your scenario overlooks the fact that if Napakis make a move in the Shakargarh sector or in Chhamb, IA will swiftly cross the border in the Lahore, Bahawalpur and Rahim Yaar Khan sectors. Unless Napakis station a signifcant number of troops in this region, they are looking at disjointed TSPA formations in North and South. The Indus highway on the West of the river, becomes their only life line and also becomes a killing zone for them.

This will also allow Afghan forces to have a field day on the Western borders.

You truly describe the Cold Start doctrine.
 

rock127

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@Hari Sud

Your scenario overlooks the fact that if Napakis make a move in the Shakargarh sector or in Chhamb, IA will swiftly cross the border in the Lahore, Bahawalpur and Rahim Yaar Khan sectors. Unless Napakis station a signifcant number of troops in this region, they are looking at disjointed TSPA formations in North and South. The Indus highway on the West of the river, becomes their only life line and also becomes a killing zone for them.

This will also allow Afghan forces to have a field day on the Western borders.
How about Indian Navy open a new front and put Karachi on fire... as happened in 71.

Also let Afgan Army start a mini war and let them settle some score.last time ANA beat up Pak Army and butchered their major and as a result it panicked whole Pak Army and rushed lot of reinforcement in distress. :lol:
 

Why so serious?

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Beyond Doklam standoff, a look at 5 areas where India is well ahead of China
India is far ahead of China in space exploration capabilities and also in alternative nuclear energy technology. But, these are not the only areas in which India is the leader.

By Prabhash K Dutta |
August 7, 2017

The ongoing Doklam standoff has brought sharp focus on India and China. The two countries are being intensely compared in respects of not only military, economy and technological advancements.

In early 1980s, India and China were roughly of same size in their economies and technological advancements. But, thereafter China made rapid progress while India looked lagging behind.

The gap was not too wide at the eve of liberalization in India. In terms of GDP, Indian economy was about 4 per cent of the US economy in 1990 while Chinese was 9 per cent. But, in 2014, while India's economy stood at 11 per cent of the US GDP, China was 60 per cent of the world's biggest economy.

Yet, there are many sectors where India is way ahead of China.

GDP GROWTH RATE AND WEALTH DISTRIBUTION

Since 2011 China is slowing down. It is battling hard to keep its economy grow at the previous double-digit or high single digit GDP rate but, the economy is just showing signs of fatigue.

In 2014, India finally caught up with China's GDP growth rate. Chinese economy grew at 7.3 per cent that year compared to India's GDP growth rate of 7.2 per cent. During the next two years, China's GDP growth rate declines first to 6.9 per cent in 2015 and 6.7 per cent in 2016. On the other hand, India's GDP grew at 7.6 per cent each of two years.

Chinese economy has taken a mammoth proportion on the back of stupendous growth of its manufacturing sector. Its high GDP growth rates had been driven by bulging manufacturing sector of China. On the other hand, India's economic growth model has been more balanced and hence growth has been steadier.

The latest data for industrial growth shows the two sides of the story. In 2016, China's industrial growth rate was 6 per cent, while India registered industrial growth rate of 7.4 per cent. The reforms, especially, the GST is likely to push the industrial growth rate further high in India.

The skewed developmental trend in China is also reflected by the Gini index, which shows the distribution of income in the country - bigger the number (coefficient) greater the inequality.

According to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), India's Gini coefficient was 45 in 1990 which rose to 51 in 2013. In China's case, Gini coefficient rose from 33 in 1990 (less inequality compared to India) to 53 in 2013 (more inequality than India).

DEMOGRAPHIC DIVIDENDS

All economists agree that the outlook for India's long-term growth is positive due to a young population base, low dependency ratio, healthy savings and investment rates. The median age for India is 27.6 years while its 36.1 years of China.

While India failed to control its population during 1960s-1980s which complicated its problems, but with the opening of economy and greater integration of it within and without, it has reached a stage to reap rich dividends of what essentially was its folly till 30 years ago.

On the other hand, China's "one-child policy" - which was relaxed last year - has made it one of the most rapidly aging countries in the world. Elderly dependency ratio for China is 13 while its only 8.6 for India.

SPACE TECHNOLOGY

India has taken giant steps in the field of space technology. Its GSLV and PSLV have set umpteen records in launching satellites from all over the worlds into space with impeccable accuracy. The entire world is showering lavish praise on Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

While China has failed to send its satellite to Mars, India remains the only country in the world to successfully launch its Mars Mission in the first go without any hiccups. China is still has a trick or two to learn from India in space technology.

Moreover, India's space experiments are least expensive in the world. At Rs 450 crore, its Mars Mission was the least expensive Mars orbital mission ever commissioned.

Similarly in remote sensing technology, India is the world leader. Till not long ago, India was dependent on American satellite data for information about flood, cyclone and similar natural phenomena. In 1999, about 20,000 people died in Odisha cyclone. This became the turning point.

India worked on its space technology and now in the field of remote sensing India has leapt far ahead of the US. India is, in fact, helping other countries by providing accurate data about weather pattern and assessment of natural resources.

The strength of India's space capabilities can only be gauged by the fact that in January last year Vietnam requested India to set up a satellite tracking and imaging centre to keep an eye on China.

NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY

China has been blocking India's entry into the exclusive nuclear suppliers group (NSG). But, it may come back to haunt China as for the world Uranium remains the primary nuclear fuel. But, India ranks number one in the development of Thorium-based fast breeder reactors.

There is a desperation among the nuclear powers to find a replacement for Uranium as a fuel for their reactors. China is one among them. India has the largest reserve of Thorium.

HIGH MOUNTAIN WARFARE

High mountain warfare is another area, where Indian Army is considered as matchless in the world. While China lies on the northern side of the Himalaya where Tibet plateau provides it a rather flat surface, Indian Army is trained to fight in the rugged terrain of the highest mountains of the world.

Indian expertise in high mountain warfare is so much appreciated that the US, the UK and Germany send their soldiers for specific training at the High Altitude Warfare School in Gulmarg in Jammu and Kashmir. Indian Army has already been manning the highest military base in the world at Siachen.

One reason why China is circumspect in challenging India in the high mountains despite hyperbole from its leadership and state-controlled media over Doklam standoff is the degree of expertise of Indian Army in high mountain warfare.
 

Why so serious?

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China may conduct 'small-scale military operation' to remove Indian troops from Bhutan border region
'And no matter how the standoff ends, Sino-Indian ties have been severely damaged and strategic distrust will linger.

The Independent Online

'If India refuses to withdraw, China may conduct a small-scale military operation within two weeks,' researcher warns Lam Yik Fei/Getty Images
China could conduct a "small-scale military operation" to expel Indiantroops from a contested region in the Himalayas, according to an article published a Chinese state-controlled newspaper.

Indian troops entered the area in the Doklam Plateau in June after New Delhi's ally Bhutan complained a Chinese military construction party was building a road inside Bhutan's territory.

Beijing says Doklam is located in Tibet and that the border dispute between China and Bhutan has nothing to do with India. It has demanded Indian troops withdraw.

Chinese and Indian media have taken a strident approach, with an article in the Chinese state-owned Global Times quoting a research fellow at the Institute of International Relations of the Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences saying China is preparing to initiate a "limited war" to push Indian soldiers out of the area.




China warns countries not to allow North Korea situation to go down 'irretrievable' path
Hu Zhiyong told the paper: "The series of remarks from the Chinese side within a 24-hour period sends a signal to India that there is no way China will tolerate the Indian troops' incursion into Chinese territory for too long.

"If India refuses to withdraw, China may conduct a small-scale military operation within two weeks."

He went on to say the military operation would aim to seize Indian personnel lingering in Chinese territory or expel them.

"India, which has stirred up the incident, should bear all the consequences," he added. "And no matter how the standoff ends, Sino-Indian ties have been severely damaged and strategic distrust will linger."

An Indian magazine's front cover last month showed a map of China shorn of Tibet and self-ruled Taiwan also ignited public anger on Chinese social media with thousands of angry posts.

The Indian government has asked political parties to refrain from politicising the issue and allow diplomacy to work.

Last week, China ramped up the rhetoric with China Central Television broadcasting a video it said showed an army unit in an unidentified part of Tibet carrying out live-fire firing exercises in the past few days.

A commander sitting in a vehicle shouted "Three, two, one, fire!" into two telephones and a missile was launched into the sky. Troops were shown loading and firing other missiles, some of which landed in fiery explosions.

The report, which was also carried in other state media, didn't mention the dispute with India, and said the unit has been training for three months.

It appeared to be an attempt to increase pressure on India, however, along with strongly worded statements this week from China's foreign and defence ministries, as well as in state media.

"China has made it clear that there is no room for negotiation and the only solution is the unconditional and immediate withdrawal of Indian troops from the region," said a commentary by the official Xinhua News Agency.

"If China backs down now, India may be emboldened to make more trouble in the future," it added.


Most previous standoffs were resolved with both sides withdrawing their forces (file image) (Kevin Frayer/Getty Images)
The two sides' troops are confronting each other close to a valley controlled by China that separates India from its close ally, Bhutan, and gives China access to the Siliguri Corridor or Chicken's Neck, a thin strip of land connecting India and its remote northeastern regions.

In New Delhi, Sushma Swaraj, the minister for external affairs, told Parliament India was concerned about China's actions affecting the tri-junction boundary point between Bhutan, China and India as well as the India-China border.

She said India would "keep engaging with China to resolve the dispute."

"War is not a solution to anything," Ms Swaraj said. "Patience, control on comments and diplomacy can resolve problems."

Most previous standoffs, such as one in 2014 just ahead of a rare trip to India for President Xi Jinping, were resolved with both sides withdrawing their forces.

There has been no shooting since a brief border war in 1962
 

mayfair

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How about Indian Navy open a new front and put Karachi on fire... as happened in 71.
That too. That's something I failed to mention. Any funny business from the Napaki side and IN will enforce an immediate blockade of the Sindh-Baluchistan coastline. All merchant and other ships will be told to stay away.
 

Indian Sniper.001

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http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...ests-expert/story-RzyRMGR8DhXsZoOixN1TdK.html

Excerpts from the article -

Chinese President Xi Jinping sees Prime Minister Narendra Modi as a leader who is willing to stand up for Indian interests and to work together with other countries in the region that are looking to impose constraints on China, a top American Chinese expert has said.

“I think that Xi Jinping sees Prime Minister Modi as a leader who is willing to stand up for Indian interests and to work together with other countries in the region that are looking to impose constraints on China, and particularly the US and Japan, and that’s something, I think Beijing is worried about,” Bonnie S Glaser from Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) told PTI in an interview.

“There are obviously differences between the two countries, in the Indian Ocean and other maritime areas. China doesn’t see itself as benefiting from a tense relationship with India. After all, the two countries share a long border,” said Glaser, who is keeping a close watch on the developments in Doklam.

India and China have been locked in a standoff in Doklam since June 16 after Chinese troops began constructing a road near the Bhutan trijunction.

Glaser, who has served as a member of the Defense Department’s Defense Policy Board China Panel in 1997, said China sees India as a major challenger to it in the long term.

“China sees India as the biggest rising developing power that in the longer run, … could pose challenges. In the near term, China worries most about India’s cooperation with other countries, forging coalitions with other countries like Japan, Australia, and the US, to counter Chinese power influence in the region, so that is a negative set of developments,”

India, she said, is the only country in the world that opposes explicitly China’s One Belt and One Road Initiative.

“China doesn’t see India as posing very much of a military threat. China hasn’t taken India’s nuclear arsenal, for example, as a major threat to its security, but increasingly sees India as a political threat to China, in part because it is cooperation with lots of other powers to constrain China,” she said.

“If China succeeds in having its way with other countries, and certainly with India, this could embolden China to be even more extrapolous, more unbending in dealing with countries with which it has territorial disputes,” Glaser said.

China, thinks that its economic power, growing political power and military power, is giving it enough clout to be able to turn these disputes and differences with countries in its own favor, she said.

“That’s worrisome to me because we’ve seen China over the last couple of years use economic coercion against countries, South Korea being the latest example of that. Its worrisome if China draws the lesson that it can use economic coercion, military power, political pressure in order to have its way,” she said.

“If China ends up winning, or in other words, if India pulls back its troops, China is able to go ahead and build this road and ultimately India and Bhutan are forced to accept it even though they believe it’s against their national interest, particularly India,” Glaser said.

“That could embolden China further in dealing with territorial disputes with other neighbors,” she said in response to a question.

“China already had a bit of a win with the Philippines with the election of Duterte. There’s now discussion underway of joint development between China and the Philippines, and I think that has emboldened Beijing in dealing with Vietnam, basically forcing the Vietnamese to stop the drilling that has been underway off of Vietnam’s coast,
 
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