LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[abingdonboy]

Nope MK2 was supposed to be the actual Tejas that IAF wanted and they are getting the best version of it. This was the one that was supposed to get more orders than any other Tejas variant and it should get if they actually want to hit the 42 sqdn requirement.

You are too paranoid but let's agree to disagree i am going to prepare some my leftover works. Good Night!

You can't differentiate between what should happen and what is happening.


Again, MK.2 is the only way they get to 42, the fact that the CAS says they will only get to 35 proves the MK.2 dream is just that.


It's not paranoia when you have any number of examples to cite- LCH, LUH, HTT-40, ATAGS, MMMA, Arjun, NAMICA etc etc.

 

[Spitfire9]

Considering GE 414 engines ,LCC And other infrastructure cost And per unit cost
It Will be Pegged Somewhere 15 billion $ in 2027-28 when it signed Today of 11-12 billion $ foe 6-7 Squadrons of MWF
Today 4 Squadrons of LCA MK1A cost 6.2 billion $

Mmm... I have read that the export flyaway price for Mk1A is US$43 million. So tomorrow an additional 4 squadrons of Mk1A would cost how much? According to my maths 4x16x$43 million = US$2.752 billion. What do you think the flyaway cost of MWF would be if IAF ordered 114? And the flyaway cost of a mix of importing/building 114 MRFA/MMRCA?

 

[Trololo]

ACM can say what he wants but as long as political leadership is resolute LCA Mk2 will go through. RKSB got a 3 month extension I think. Isnt he inn line to be next CDS?

 

[Vaibhavseafarer]

Why so much meltdown?
When we clearly know govt. will push MWF down the throat of IAF.

 

[Marliii]

Why so much meltdown?
When we clearly know govt. will push MWF down the throat of IAF.

Govt pushed down tejus because it was a finished project it would nt be good optics to anyone if IAF does their usual shelf we are all are having a meltdown for nothing MRFA MWF all are years away and indian procurement program has more drama on it than an episode of game of thrones

 

[Javelin_Sam]

I strongly believe additional Rafale negotiations are going on parallely. Most probably IAF is saying to the french fries-"See we have options. We have the Gripen, F-21, Mig 35, that new single engine Russian vodka ready to Make In India. So woo us. This is your deal to loose. You peeps already lost a mega billion deal in Australia. Offer us a better price".

The IAF Chief in his first media encounter, Unplanned and unprepared let his heart flew out and MWF was there. In the following prepared and vetted speeches, he again throws the MMRCA bait. He wants the French to come down on price and MoFinance babus to open up the purse for 2 additional Rafales. IAF gets 72/110 of their ever loved and lusted french Madame' . MoF babus holds the cash bag. DRDO Chief Satheesh Reddy is right hand of PM and was given a tenure extension some time back because he is Modi's goto man for Defence and procurments like Doval and Jaishankar for Natsec and Foreign Affairs. He will advice the Modi against this 110 make in india MRFA bakwas. Some people here are simply overestimating the power and influence of service chiefs in India.

If the babus want, they can make our Genraals and Marshaals dance to Rehman's param sundari and kick their MRFA sundari out to gutters. Forget MoD, MoF babus will kill MRFA sundari

 

[MonaLazy]

100+ Mirage 2K/MiG-29UPG/Jag Darin 3

LCA Mk2 well replace these exact aircraft. It's coming for sure.

 

[WARREN SS]

Mmm... I have read that the export flyaway price for Mk1A is US$43 million. So tomorrow an additional 4 squadrons of Mk1A would cost how much? According to my maths 4x16x$43 million = US$2.752 billion. What do you think the flyaway cost of MWF would be if IAF ordered 114? And the flyaway cost of a mix of importing/building 114 MRFA/MMRCA?

Fly way cost of Rafale
Is close 70-80 million
But actual contract cost near 8 billion $

Same way cost of 83 LCA mk1A pegged at 6.2 billion $

That includes LCC,Training, Infrastructure ,simulators
Weapon package and other misc expenditures

That Mk1A is just light weight category aircrafts

Considering MWF categories and
Avionics package it brings to the table
It will not cost less than 55 -60 million $

That is why current.cost of the deal valued at 11-12 billion $ for 7 -8 Squadrons with prototypes a
And trainers

The cost escalation factors renders every deal including Rafale.

 

[WARREN SS]

I strongly believe additional Rafale negotiations are going on parallely. Most probably IAF is saying to the french fries-"See we have options. We have the Gripen, F-21, Mig 35, that new single engine Russian vodka ready to Make In India. So woo us. This is your deal to loose. You peeps already lost a mega billion deal in Australia. Offer us a better price".

The IAF Chief in his first media encounter, Unplanned and unprepared let his heart flew out and MWF was there. In the following prepared and vetted speeches, he again throws the MMRCA bait. He wants the French to come down on price and MoFinance babus to open up the purse for 2 additional Rafales. IAF gets 72/110 of their ever loved and lusted french Madame' . MoF babus holds the cash bag. DRDO Chief Satheesh Reddy is right hand of PM and was given a tenure extension some time back because he is Modi's goto man for Defence and procurments like Doval and Jaishankar for Natsec and Foreign Affairs. He will advice the Modi against this 110 make in india MRFA bakwas. Some people here are simply overestimating the power and influence of service chiefs in India.

If the babus want, they can make our Genraals and Marshaals dance to Rehman's param sundari and kick their MRFA sundari out to gutters. Forget MoD, MoF babus will kill MRFA sundari

IAF is no where at fault here

Rafale is all in all suprior aircraft than both MKI and Mirage-2000

MWF is not even in its category

With woping 9 ton payload capacity
The amount of Weapons package it offers

Scalp+Meteor combo

Any professnal force will ask for it in 21 st century
As it give supremacy over adversaries

Irony in your statement is demeaning to A institution which served and bled for Nation

And even bleeding for it today by flying 50 era

Aircraft

That Billions $ we waste on needless socialist schemes every year 20 % of which goes to corruption.

I don't think IAF is asking for anything less

Giving to the reputation DSPSU'S has
And there commitment to.push deadlines I don't think

IAF is anywhere wrong on there assumption to.presume dedication of projects like
MWF and TEDBF completion in allocation time

Giving to the factor if Govt changes after 2024

When we are have impending Limited Skirmish on the cards anytime now

 

[WARREN SS]

LCA Mk2 well replace these exact aircraft. It's coming for sure.

Payload capacity of Mirage close 21000 lbs
That is more that 3 ton more than mk2

Rafale only option to replace it.

 

[MonaLazy]

Payload capacity of Mirage close 21000 lbs

Incorrect.

For Mirage 2000 the total capacity of the hardpoints maxes out at 6,300 kilograms so Mk2 betters it with a payload capacity to 6,500 kg (14,300 lb).

21000lbs is the combat weight = empty weight + half fuel + full gun ammo + A2A missiles

Reference:

Here's how India's Mirage 2000 differs from Pakistan's F-16

The Mirage 2000, also known as the Dassault Mirage 2000, is a single-engine fourth generation aircraft manufactured by Dassault Aviation. F-16 Falcon, on the other hand, is a single-engine supersonic multirole fighter, which was manufactured by General Dynamics, now Lockheed Martin for the US...

www.indiatoday.in

Military customer support: Mirage 2000

Entered into service in the Air Force in 1984, the Mirage 2000 is appreciated by all users.

www.dassault-aviation.com

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19850010645/downloads/19850010645.pdf

That it will be replacing Mirage-2K has been confirmed by Guru Kota himself. There is no doubting that!

 

[Chinmoy]

No they aren’t. Their new CAS has effectively ignored its existence in every public interview/speech he’s given.

you can live with your eyes closed for as long as you like but when the CAS mentioned they won’t meet their sanctioned strength in the next 15 years but are going for 114 MRFA it made it clear- LCA MK.2 project is over for them.

Only way to get to 42squadrons is with a large order of LCA MK.2, admitting they will only get to 35 squadrons under their current force plans BUT they are getting their 114 MRFA should indicate where the shortfall has been made.

6 SQNs LCA
8 MRFA/Rafale
15 SU30MKI
6 AMCA


Someone do the maths on that and tell me where the space is for the IAF’s 35 squadron force by mid 2030s

You are quoting wrong Sqd strength here.

By 2030. IAF is looking into:

6 SQNs of LCA
2 SQNs of Rafale
15 SQNs of MKI
6 SQNs of Jaguar
2 SQNs of M2K
2 SQNs of Mig 29

in addition of 1 more SQNs each of M2K and Mig 29s which makes up 35 SQN strength. Post 2030, Jaguars would be start retiring from active services. Now IAF is practical here and not over estimating themself.

Talking about LCA Mk2, if anyone says that since ACM has not talked about it, they are not serious in it. Then I must say, neither RKS Bhaduria (in whose tenure Mk1A) has been signed has been serious about LCA. He has gone to the extent of convincing IN to invest in AMCA rather then TEDBF.

These theories of the future of LCA Mk2 based on talking and not talking about it in press is unfounded. AMCA is somewhat in which IAF is involved from beginning or should we say interested in concept stage. So talking about a futuristic aircraft in each and every platform is logical. LCA Mk2 is upgradation over the current Mk1A and its the logical and general step for developers. It doesn't mean IAF would not consider it. Anyway Mk2 is not going into production before 2030. After that place for it would start cropping up automatically with phasing out of M2K and Jaguar and Mig29s

So Chill down.

 

[Vamsi]

Lets wait and watch. Not like we can do anything about it right now. The current IAF chief wouldn't even be in service by the time Tejas MkII gets ready for induction.

He has the potential to be next CDS , if he is indeed next CDS, then he will be there untill 2026 and this is when key decisions about MWF will be taken

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Fly way cost of Rafale
Is close 70-80 million
But actual contract cost near 8 billion $

Same way cost of 83 LCA mk1A pegged at 6.2 billion $

That includes LCC,Training, Infrastructure ,simulators
Weapon package and other misc expenditures

That Mk1A is just light weight category aircrafts

Considering MWF categories and
Avionics package it brings to the table
It will not cost less than 55 -60 million $

That is why current.cost of the deal valued at 11-12 billion $ for 7 -8 Squadrons with prototypes a
And trainers

The cost escalation factors renders every deal including Rafale.

I didn't say Rafale is a bad fighter. I didn't object to additional Rafale either. I pointed out that 110 MRFA will not happen.

The fact that 'an organization that bled for the nation' doesn't give them a free pass from criticism where needed. Courage of men in front line alone cannot result in a well prepared force. The ones in higher up needs to back them with weapons, equipment and strategic long term planning.

 

[abingdonboy]

I strongly believe additional Rafale negotiations are going on parallely. Most probably IAF is saying to the french fries-"See we have options. We have the Gripen, F-21, Mig 35, that new single engine Russian vodka ready to Make In India. So woo us. This is your deal to loose. You peeps already lost a mega billion deal in Australia. Offer us a better price".

The IAF Chief in his first media encounter, Unplanned and unprepared let his heart flew out and MWF was there. In the following prepared and vetted speeches, he again throws the MMRCA bait. He wants the French to come down on price and MoFinance babus to open up the purse for 2 additional Rafales. IAF gets 72/110 of their ever loved and lusted french Madame' . MoF babus holds the cash bag. DRDO Chief Satheesh Reddy is right hand of PM and was given a tenure extension some time back because he is Modi's goto man for Defence and procurments like Doval and Jaishankar for Natsec and Foreign Affairs. He will advice the Modi against this 110 make in india MRFA bakwas. Some people here are simply overestimating the power and influence of service chiefs in India.

If the babus want, they can make our Genraals and Marshaals dance to Rehman's param sundari and kick their MRFA sundari out to gutters. Forget MoD, MoF babus will kill MRFA sundari

You guys really overestimate the power the PM has in a parliamentary democracy like India. He isn't the president of a republic who has immense executive power. Modi cannot make individual procurement decisions, this is left to the services- I doubt Modi even has much awareness of the LCA MK.2 existing.

You are quoting wrong Sqd strength here.

By 2030. IAF is looking into:

6 SQNs of LCA
2 SQNs of Rafale
15 SQNs of MKI
6 SQNs of Jaguar
2 SQNs of M2K
2 SQNs of Mig 29

in addition of 1 more SQNs each of M2K and Mig 29s which makes up 35 SQN strength. Post 2030, Jaguars would be start retiring from active services. Now IAF is practical here and not over estimating themself.

Talking about LCA Mk2, if anyone says that since ACM has not talked about it, they are not serious in it. Then I must say, neither RKS Bhaduria (in whose tenure Mk1A) has been signed has been serious about LCA. He has gone to the extent of convincing IN to invest in AMCA rather then TEDBF.

These theories of the future of LCA Mk2 based on talking and not talking about it in press is unfounded. AMCA is somewhat in which IAF is involved from beginning or should we say interested in concept stage. So talking about a futuristic aircraft in each and every platform is logical. LCA Mk2 is upgradation over the current Mk1A and its the logical and general step for developers. It doesn't mean IAF would not consider it. Anyway Mk2 is not going into production before 2030. After that place for it would start cropping up automatically with phasing out of M2K and Jaguar and Mig29s

So Chill down.

When did the IN get convinced to invest in AMCA? The opposite happened. They have gone all in on TEDBF these last 2 years and are convinced they need a clean sheet design.


+ The SQN strength I am projecting for 2035 is what the IAF is clearly working towards based on the 114 MRFA and 0 LCA MK.2

 

[ezsasa]

You guys really overestimate the power the PM has in a parliamentary democracy like India. He isn't the president of a republic who has immense executive power. Modi cannot make individual procurement decisions, this is left to the services- I doubt Modi even has much awareness of the LCA MK.2 existing.



When did the IN get convinced to invest in AMCA? The opposite happened. They have gone all in on TEDBF these last 2 years and are convinced they need a clean sheet design.


+ The SQN strength I am projecting for 2035 is what the IAF is clearly working towards based on the 114 MRFA and 0 LCA MK.2

what will it take for you to believe that LCA mk2 is not dead? What proof are you willing to accept?

 

[doreamon]

The real value of tejas program ll be realised whn CATS project becomes successful . Indigenous programming where you have ownership allows u the flexibility for such program .

Imagine a twin seater tejas mother ship sending numbers of those stealth drone to hostile territory with air to air and air to ground capability with support of other fighter jets in formation
This ll be sollution to our lower squadron strength .

 

[abingdonboy]

what will it take for you to believe that LCA mk2 is not dead? What proof are you willing to accept?

The CAS actually confirming their commitment to it and giving definitive numbers.


The 25th CAS said 201, the 26th said 120-170, the 27th is forgetting it exists and not even giving a number.


This is how you slowly kill a project, it's what happened to Arjun and ATAGS

 

[Spitfire9]

I don't quite understand why the debate about Mk2 is in the Mk1 thread but not to worry.

Going back to Mk1A, does anybody else think that more Mk1A aircraft should be ordered? How many shorter range interceptor/limited load strike aircraft could IAF usefully use? I note that there is construction work reported at HAL Bengaluru and wonder if it is to expand assembly capacity (which could be used to build more Mk1A until needed for some other use).

 

[ezsasa]

The CAS actually confirming their commitment to it and giving definitive numbers.


The 25th CAS said 201, the 26th said 120-170, the 27th is forgetting it exists and not even giving a number.


This is how you slowly kill a project, it's what happened to Arjun and ATAGS

In that case you will have to wait for atleast a couple of years, official commitments will come only after first flight. commitment on numbers will come much later.