LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Homi J Bhaba]

The new CAS has openly declared LCA MK.2 is dead if you see the content of his pre-planned carefully crafted speeches.

MK2 will go on no matter what, The IAF is committed.

 

[abingdonboy]

MK2 will go on no matter what, The IAF is committed.

No they aren’t. Their new CAS has effectively ignored its existence in every public interview/speech he’s given.

you can live with your eyes closed for as long as you like but when the CAS mentioned they won’t meet their sanctioned strength in the next 15 years but are going for 114 MRFA it made it clear- LCA MK.2 project is over for them.

Only way to get to 42squadrons is with a large order of LCA MK.2, admitting they will only get to 35 squadrons under their current force plans BUT they are getting their 114 MRFA should indicate where the shortfall has been made.

6 SQNs LCA
8 MRFA/Rafale
15 SU30MKI
6 AMCA


Someone do the maths on that and tell me where the space is for the IAF’s 35 squadron force by mid 2030s

 

[Javelin_Sam]

No they aren’t. Their new CAS has effectively ignored its existence in every public interview/speech he’s given.

you can live with your eyes closed for as long as you like but when the CAS mentioned they won’t meet their sanctioned strength in the next 15 years but are going for 114 MRFA it made it clear- LCA MK.2 project is over for them.

Only way to get to 42squadrons is with a large order of LCA MK.2, admitting they will only get to 35 squadrons under their current force plans BUT they are getting their 114 MRFA should indicate where the shortfall has been made.

6 SQNs LCA
8 MRFA/Rafale
15 SU30MKI
6 AMCA


Someone do the maths on that and tell me where the space is for the IAF’s 35 squadron force by mid 2030s

8 squadrons of Rafale/MRFA- IAF probably will have to dig for crude oil in its bases and become a OPEC member for that to happen

 

[abingdonboy]

8 squadrons of Rafale/MRFA- IAF probably will have to dig for crude oil in its bases and become a OPEC member for that to happen

I don’t care how feasible it is. These are the words from the IAF themselves, they are the ones that have to order the LCA MK.2. If they are focused on getting their MRFA then LCA MK.2 is already dead because they clearly don’t see space for it in their future force.

we were hoping the MK.2 experience would be different, large order commitments upfront so that large scale production could be achieved early on. It seems even worse than the MK.1 saga now.

MK.2 is heading into LCH, LUH etc territory. It will be ready but no one will want ir.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

1) At most another 54 (3 squadrons) Rafales.(most probably 36)
2) 7 squadrons of MWF (If americans dont wield the CAATSA sword)

12-13 Sukhoi + 4 Rafale + 6 Tejas + 7 MWF + 2 AMCA + 6 Jaguar + 3 Mirages + 3 Mig 29UPG = 43 squadrons by 2034. From around 2033, Jaguar, Mirages and Mig 29 will start to retire.

 

[WARREN SS]

I don’t care how feasible it is. These are the words from the IAF themselves, they are the ones that have to order the LCA MK.2. If they are focused on getting their MRFA then LCA MK.2 is already dead because they clearly don’t see space for it in their future force.

we were hoping the MK.2 experience would be different, large order commitments upfront so that large scale production could be achieved early on. It seems even worse than the MK.1 saga now.

MK.2 is heading into LCH, LUH etc territory. It will be ready but no one will want ir.

Well AMCA Should no1 priority Specially turbofan Engines technology in 8-9 years
New Air chief pragmatic and practical And i say Fun killer for fanboi's

 

[WARREN SS]

1) At most another 54 (3 squadrons) Rafales.(most probably 36)
2) 7 squadrons of MWF (If americans dont wield the CAATSA sword)

12-13 Sukhoi + 4 Rafale + 6 Tejas + 7 MWF + 2 AMCA + 6 Jaguar + 3 Mirages + 3 Mig 29UPG = 43 squadrons by 2034. From around 2033, Jaguar, Mirages and Mig 29 will start to retire.

How much cost Of 7 Squadrons MWF Will be

If 4 Squadrons Of MK1A pegged at 6.2 billion $ ???Any guess

 

[abingdonboy]

1) At most another 54 (3 squadrons) Rafales.(most probably 36)
2) 7 squadrons of MWF (If americans dont wield the CAATSA sword)

12-13 Sukhoi + 4 Rafale + 6 Tejas + 7 MWF + 2 AMCA + 6 Jaguar + 3 Mirages + 3 Mig 29UPG = 43 squadrons by 2034. From around 2033, Jaguar, Mirages and Mig 29 will start to retire.

Show me one IAF official making any such comments.

in fact the new CAS explicitly ruled out 36 more. They want all 114 and will kill LCA MK.2 to get them.

what force structures we make on forums makes no difference. IAF clearly have projected their 2030s and beyond force without LCA MK.2.

 

[abingdonboy]

How much cost Of 7 Squadrons MWF Will be

If 4 Squadrons Of MK1A pegged at 6.2 billion $ ???Any guess

A lot less than 6 squadrons of MRFA

 

[Javelin_Sam]

How much cost Of 7 Squadrons MWF Will be

If 4 Squadrons Of MK1A pegged at 6.2 billion $ ???Any guess

Around 11-12 billion USD

 

[WARREN SS]

Around 11-12 billion USD

Well Yes Remember We Have large fleet Of MKI Sitting to get MLUed '7-8 billion $
in Next decade

Then there is AMCA R&D alone Will cost 5 billion $ Even if we take narrow margin

I don't think Things look pragmatic in monetary stand point

Either OCRA or TEDBF or MWF

choices will be made

 

[Brood Father]

The one thing everyone is ignoring is that IAF also ditched the MK1 as well, then Parikar happened and shoved MK1 down the throat , same will happen with the MK2 .

 

[WARREN SS]

The one thing everyone is ignoring is that IAF also ditched the MK1 as well, then Parikar happened and shoved MK1 down the throat , same will happen with the MK2 .

IAF not taking that risk They are Flying bogey of 5 generation now
Ultimately Its IAF Which decides sanctioned Squadron strength

Rafale 9 ton Payload makes it Better contender in their eyes

you are forgetting

"Sher Ne khoon chakh liya hai "

IAF is in love with rafale From dhanoa To every air chief Sing Sermons For rafale

Only Road block is opposition corruption bogey Which is more pragmatic blockage

 

[FalconZero]

The new CAS has openly declared LCA MK.2 is dead if you see the content of his pre-planned carefully crafted speeches.

Oh c'mon not this again, with due respect sir, if you think IAF chief openly saying that 'AMCA and Tejas Mk2 are on the cards', repetitive reiterations of their commitment to the Atmanirbharta is 'declaring MWF dead' then i really don't know what you can call 'alive'.

Thanks to @rakesh in BRF i found this, IAF chief's statement on 1st October,

I think our steps are well known to everybody. We have signed the contract for 83 LCA; the AMCA and LCA-Mk2 are on the cards: IAF Chief, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari to ANI, on Indian Air Force's steps for future in the direction of 'Make in India' initiative

Spoiler: Source

No they aren’t. Their new CAS has effectively ignored its existence in every public interview/speech he’s given.

>every public interview/speech

Perhaps you missed his interview from 1st of October, here's the video with timestamp where he reiterates IAF's support for MWF and AMCA program,

Also, why even bother bringing up MWF autism again and again in an unrelated thread? We will see what will happen, doing rona over something that is at least 2 to 3 years away is just futile IMO. MWF already confirmed by Dr. Kota that it is ready and going through the final review phase, we can fully expect it to have rollout by the next year and first flight soon after.

MWF is the best aircraft to fulfill the demands of IAF until AMCA arrives.

I am afraid that people are reading too much into it this whole fiasco.

 

[abingdonboy]

Oh c'mon not this again, with due respect sir, if you think IAF chief openly saying that 'AMCA and Tejas Mk2 are on the cards', repetitive reiterations of their commitment to the Atmanirbharta is 'declaring MWF dead' then i really don't know what you can call 'alive'.

Thanks to @rakesh in BRF i found this, IAF chief's statement on 1st October,

I think our steps are well known to everybody. We have signed the contract for 83 LCA; the AMCA and LCA-Mk2 are on the cards: IAF Chief, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari to ANI, on Indian Air Force's steps for future in the direction of 'Make in India' initiative

Spoiler: Source

>every public interview/speech

Perhaps you missed his interview from 1st of October, here's the video with timestamp where he reiterates IAF's support for MWF and AMCA program,

Also, why even bother bringing up MWF autism again and again in an unrelated thread? We will see what will happen, doing rona over something that is at least 2 to 3 years away is just futile IMO. MWF already confirmed by Dr. Kota that it is ready and going through the final review phase, we can fully expect it to have rollout by the next year and first flight soon after.

MWF is the best aircraft to fulfill the demands of IAF until AMCA arrives.

I am afraid that people are reading too much into it this whole fiasco.

I haven’t said once that the new CAS hasn’t mentioned the MK.2 but he’s omitted it at least 3 times when he’s mentioned future force levels- never once failed to mention the 114 MRFA.

This isn’t the crux of my point. The fact that he’s mentioned 35 squadrons by 2035 means there’s NO space for LCA MK.2. Do the calculations yourself and show me how many LCA MK.2 can be inducted if the IAF is targeting 35 squadrons by 2035

I’m not saying the MK.2 isn’t being developed and won’t make progress but it will get the same treatment as Arjun, LCH, LUH etc

 

[Tupac slayer]

Looks like Malaysian Defence Forum is an extension of PeeDF, literally the same level of delusion both here and there.
- JF-17, thanks to its hasty induction has crashed atleast 5 times, not a single Tejas has crashed in the last 20 years.
- Budget overrun by 25 times, LOL, so is the original program cost supposed to be $80 million.
- 53 significant shortfalls, LOL, ask them to name a single one. Also payload is 4.3 tons and has demonstrated takeoff with 3.5 tons payload from Leh airfield.
- Less than 30% Indian made, looks like Afghani weed has made its way to Malaysia.
- Someone tell that idiot its been 2 years since it got FOC

JF-17 Thunder might have crashed 5 times. Out of 130 Planes built only 5 have been crashed. I agree with your comments about Tejas which is more Indian when compared to Pakistan.

As one of our member pointed to my question earlier about comparing the induction of JF-17 Thunder and Tejas. The member told " Pakistan Airforce did not have money but had the INTENT to induct JF-17 Thunder.
Indian Airforce had the money but lacked the intent to induct Tejas.

Pakistan is at least replacing obsolete jets which were lost due to crashes. Recent purchase of Egyptian mirages is an example, they have replaced all the mirage crashes in the last 2 years. Pakistan road map is very clear.

Long Term goal : Get one chinese 5th Generation Jet in numbers probably J-31, I dont think AZM bluster and all will come true

Medium Term Goal: Get more used F-16 to replace Obsolete mirage aircraft

Short term goal : Replace most of the F-7 fighter aircraft with JF-17 Thunder.

Problem is Quantity is its own quality. We might have 36 Rafales but Pakistan can field around any number of inferior aircraft. PAF Squadrons are not depleting because of their policy to replaced crashed aircraft with second hand aircraft. No offence. If we are going to have more than 42 squadrons Tejas should be inducted in larger numbers.

 

[FalconZero]

I haven’t said once that the new CAS hasn’t mentioned the MK.2 but he’s omitted it at least 3 times when he’s mentioned future force levels- never once failed to mention the 114 MRFA.

This isn’t the crux of my point. The fact that he’s mentioned 35 squadrons by 2035 means there’s NO space for LCA MK.2. Do the calculations yourself and show me how many LCA MK.2 can be inducted if the IAF is targeting 35 squadrons by 2035

I’m not saying the MK.2 isn’t being developed and won’t make progress but it will get the same treatment as Arjun, LCH, LUH etc

Okay then, rough calculations based on 18 aircraft per sqdn.

Rafales - 36 (2 sqdn) - by next year
Flankers - 260 (14 sqdn)
Tejas - 40 + 83 (7 sqdn) - by 2029
Mig 29 - 66 (4 sqdn)
Mirage 2000 - 49 (2sqdn)
Jags - 120 (7sqdn)
Mig 21 - 64 (3 sqdn) - will be retired

So by 2030 IAF will most probably have, 2 + 14 + 7 + 4 + 2 + 7 = 36 sqdn. +- 3

MRFA - 6 sqdn. Planned
MWF - 6 sqnd (hopefully)

Now, by 2035 we don't know how many of Jags, Mirage and Mig 29 with total 13 ~sqdn
will be retired. If they all are retired then there's a pretty clear clause for MRCA 2.0 and MWF both (6 + 6 sqdn each)
in an ideal world with no issues related to money.
I have not read through the interview of IAF chief in his pc, i don't know whether he was saying that
by 2035 we will have 35 sqdn including MRFA or without it.

Even if they do include MRFA and considering the age of other aircrafts its clear that IAF can't afford
the import of 6 sqdn of MRFA anytime soon and that 6 sqdn are far from enough, MWF is the one that will be
the one filling the gaps.

And at the end it was MWF which was supposed to be the replacemetn of Jags and Mirage, which seems more
plausible to me.

Also, the love of IAF for MMRCA isn't something new, they can fantasizes all they want but truth is that we
can't afford it, IAF is already more involved in MWF program than any other previous Tejas program so i don't see any reason why MWF is getting the shit on and why people are making mountain of a molehill.

At most it seems to me that IAF wanted to make a case for additional rafales and i am okay if they get additional orders of 36 rafales, most probably they will get follow on orders and shut the MMRCA 2.0 drama forever and let MWF be take the rest of the lot.

 

[Brood Father]

IAF not taking that risk They are Flying bogey of 5 generation now
Ultimately Its IAF Which decides sanctioned Squadron strength

Rafale 9 ton Payload makes it Better contender in their eyes

you are forgetting

"Sher Ne khoon chakh liya hai "

IAF is in love with rafale From dhanoa To every air chief Sing Sermons For rafale

Only Road block is opposition corruption bogey Which is more pragmatic blockage

We don't have money for IAF fantasy , it should be nipped in the butt..
IAF either should commit for MWF or no Rafale

 

[WARREN SS]

We don't have money for IAF fantasy , it should be nipped in the butt..
IAF either should commit for MWF or no Rafale

MWF cost is more than buying 114 rafale

And rafale carry 9 Ton load compared 6.5 to MWF .

Both are different category aircrafts
Twin engine vs single one

Also US engines are biggest constraints and embargo prone

Whenever We by Russian technology

 

[Brood Father]

MWF cost is more than buying 114 rafale

And rafale carry 9 Ton load compared 6.5 to MWF .

Both are different category aircrafts
Twin engine vs single one

Also US engines are biggest constraints and embargo prone

Whenever We by Russian technology

MWF will have far lower cost of operation and it will get India on the export market
Rafael are required by but MWF is a necessity