Know Your 'Rafale'

[nitesh]

Deconstructing the MMRCA decision | Deccan Chronicle
(Deba Mohanty is a Senior Fellow in Security Studies at the Observer Research Foundation, New Delhi)


The multi-billion-dollar MMRCA deal has been debated for several years. The contract is now in the final stage of negotiations, and probably 6-9 months away from signing. Yet, doubts are being raised even now over the deal.

First, why buy 4+ gen. jet when 5th Gen F-35 is available: Some analysts have argued that the MMRCA deal should be scrapped at this late stage and India should opt for the American F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft, which is the latest technology, and could be cheaper.

Such an argument stems from a misunderstanding of the MMRCA deal. The MMRCA is meant to achieve a balanced force structure. It will fill the gap between the indigenous Tejas LCA at the low end and the Su-30 MKI air superiority fighter at the high end, while affording new technology to Indian industry and multi-role capability and force projection to the IAF. The Air Force rejected the 1970s and 1980s vintage F-16 and F/A-18 jets, and down selected the latest operational aircraft, the Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon, before declaring the Rafale as the lowest cost bidder. Also, India made a conscious decision to co-develop a 5th Gen fighter with Russia.

When the MMRCA exercise began, the F-35 was neither on the table, nor anywhere near being operational. As we go to press, the USAF has announced that it is set to upgrade 350 F-16s because the F-35 continues to be delayed. Quite apart from Indian reluctance to buy American and obtain little technology transfer, the JSF is a high-technology project that is still subject to significant risks and whose proposed numbers have been dropped by the US from the original 1,800 to about a third of that number.

None of this is to suggest that India should close its options on 5th Gen fighters. In fact, the basket of options has just enlarged, and India can take advantage of that.

Second, why Rafale when cheaper options were available: Three factors determine a major acquisition decision — whether what's offered meets qualitative requirements, whether it is affordable and, now, what techno-industrial benefits it will bring. The Rafale buy may be difficult to justify purely on qualitative requirements, but factor in offsets and technology transfers, and the fact that India is still to drive a hard bargain on the final cost. By all indications, India would drop the deal if the final price escalates beyond about $18 billion. Given the past experience with Dassault, especially the recent Mirage upgrade deal, it will be interesting to see how hard India can negotiate. This is also a tricky situation for Dassault, because it knows that if it fails to meet the demands, the contract could slip out of its bag.

Third, will France transfer all the technology we want: No less than French President Nicholas Sarkozy has said that France/Dassault would transfer all the technology demanded in the contract, including source codes, a point he publicly reiterated when Dassault was announced as the lowest cost bidder. Still, it is for the Indian government to specify critical technologies that it wants, negotiate hard and ensure compliance. These are in some 10-12 areas, including composites and stealth, single-crystal blade technology, simulation, micro-radars, etc.

Fourth, life cycle costs. Introduction of life cycle costs as part of an acquisition is a new phenomenon. This is a result of India's displeasure over difficulties faced in earlier acquisitions when it faced severe constraints in supply of spares and even in maintenance of critical infrastructure. Such sourcing resulted in additional costs, new contractual conditions and delays.

Fifth, beyond commercial and technological considerations. Large arms deals invariably go beyond economic and technological considerations and the MMRCA is no exception. Although this tender has so far followed a text-book procedure, not only strategic considerations but others could come into the picture. Consider these: deals for the C-130J Hercules and the P-8I maritime reconnaissance aircraft have sustained about 35,000 jobs in the US alone; the Hawk AJTs, along with the latest follow-on orders, will sustain some 27,000 jobs in the UK; and it would not be wrong to say that over a million hearths were kept going in Russia through more than a dozen large orders from India.

Dassault, for whom the Indian Rafale order will be the first export order, is looking to come off the ventilator with an MMRCA order in 2012, and a possible follow-on some years hence. That gives India leverage to drive not only a hard bargain but also mutual strategic benefits in foreign, defence and economic relations with France.

 

[plugwater]

^^
I guess, you missed the humor, but he has logic, in long run say after 2040. only two variants will be in IAF, PAK FA/FGFA and AMCA, rest will be in line for retiring or taking secondary role

ACM said it will be in service for 30 years. It will be like mig21 now

Future belongs to AMCA, Pakfa and Aura and i dont think AMCA will replace Rafale at any point of time.

 

[nitesh]

Possibilities are end less . But yes I agree to the point that Rafale is going to serve in IAF colors for long time, how the transition happens needs to be seen

 

[Armand2REP]

^^
I guess, you missed the humor, but he has logic, in long run say after 2040. only two variants will be in IAF, PAK FA/FGFA and AMCA, rest will be in line for retiring or taking secondary role

Lets see, MMRCA will be signed in a few months, another 3 years for the first squadron. Made in India will continue another 10 years until 2025. Rafale will be around until 2055 easy. With active cancellation coming to Spectra, it will be relevant long into the 21st century.

 

[KS]

Sabaash....Mera Bharath Mahaan...

A further £44,000 of British aid was allegedly siphoned off by one project official to finance a movie directed by her son.

 

[SpArK]

AMCA will replace Rafale, and Rafale will replace LCA,

That was funny.. never knew Rafale is beyond upgrades.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

So MKI is air superiority fighter, Rafale is strike fighter and LCA is CAS fighter. PAK FA will replace MKI... what is AMCA to replace?

MKI is multi-role so does Rafale and LCA..

MKI will be using same weaponry as Rafale and LCA is Light interceptor..

If MKI is replace MiG-21, what is LCA replacing?

IAF is increasing its Squadron limits..

 

[SpArK]

MKI is multi-role so does Rafale and LCA..

MKI will be using same weaponry as Rafale and LCA is Light interceptor..



IAF is increasing its Squadron limits..

Thats the key... we are not sticking on the same squadron strength for nxt 20 years, it will increase. Rafale, M2Ks and all 4 and 4.5s will get replaced only by Stealth UCAV sometime in future.

 

[Zebra]

The ONLY TWO planes that are to be replaced by 2020 are Mig 21 and Mig 27

Jaguar will remain till 2025 maybe even more will be made

We also need a bigger air force

The airforce has clearly said that it wants to be a 55 squadron fleet for a TWO front war

So we will keep Mirage 2000; Mig 29 and Jaguar till 2030

LCA will only increase the size of the IAF

Can you elaborate this part please.

 

[H.A.]

moving a little off the present discussion, posting this article which i found on the web, Its a good read and gives a very good insight in as to what led India on deciding Rafale.

The Real Reasons for Rafale's Indian Victory


(Source: defense-aerospace.com; published Feb. 1, 2012)


By Giovanni de Briganti



PARIS --- While many observers cite technology transfer, prices and performance as being major factors in India's selection of the Rafale as its next-generation fighter, reality is very different even if these factors obviously did play a significant role.

In the same way that it is true that Rafale lost several competitions through no fault of its own, it must be recognized that its victory in India was also won, to a great extent, through no fault of its own. The real reason for its victory is political, and the long memory of Indian politicians was a major contributing factor.

This is not to say, however, that Rafale's own impressive qualities had nothing to do with its selection. The Indian Air Force, which was extensively briefed by the French air force in the autumn, was particularly impressed by its operational performance during the Libyan bombing campaign and in Afghanistan. Rafale also has a naval variant which could be of future interest to India, given its plans to buy and build aircraft carriers, while the recent decision to upgrade India's Mirage 2000H fighters will simplify the air force's logistics chain, as these will share with Rafale many weapons and other equipment.

The Indian Air Force also is a satisfied user of long standing of French fighters, going back to the Dassault Ouragan in the 1950s. It was also particularly appreciative of the performance of its Mirages during the 1999 Kargil campaign against Pakistan, and of the support it then obtained from France. During that campaign, India obtained French clearance – and possibly more - to urgently adapt Israeli and Russian-supplied laser-guided bombs to the Mirages, which were thus able to successfully engage high-altitude targets that Indian MiG-23s and MiG-27s had been unable to reach.

Rafale was preferred because of lower costs, and the Indian air force's familiarity with French warplanes such as the Mirage, Bloomberg reported Feb. 1 quoting an Indian source who asked not be named. "Unit-wise, the French plane is much cheaper than the Eurofighter. Moreover, the Indian air force, which is well equipped with French fighters, is favouring the French," the source said.

To Indian officials, France's steadfastness as a military ally contrasted strongly with that of the United States, which stopped F-16 deliveries to Pakistan (but kept the money) when it found it expedient to do so, and slowed or vetoed delivery of components for Light Combat Aircraft that India was developing. And, of course, the 1998 arms embargo, decreed by the US after India's nuclear test in May of that year, left a very bad taste in Indian mouths. France, on the contrary, was the only Western nation not to impose sanctions on that occasion.

That, Indian sources say, was New Delhi's real reason for eliminating Boeing and Lockheed Martin from the fighter competition; India has resolved, these sources say, to buy only second-line equipment from the U.S., such as transport (C-17, C-130J) or maritime patrol aircraft (P-8I). Vital weapons such as missiles and fighters, when they cannot be locally produced, will remain the preserve of France and Russia.

Political considerations were also a significant factor playing against Rafale's final competitor, the Eurofighter Typhoon. As this aircraft is produced by a consortium of four nations, each with different foreign policies and different attitudes and tolerances to arms exports, Indian officials were a bit nervous about their ultimate reliability as a single supplier.

Germany is a long-standing Indian aviation partner, and a respected role model for Indian politicians, many of whom were educated there. German companies – essentially the former Messerschmitt-Boelkow-Blohm, now part of EADS - helped Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. develop both the LCA and the Advanced Light Helicopter, now called Dhruv. These links were the reason the Eurofighter bid was led by Germany's Cassidian, and not BAE Systems, the former colonial power. But Germany had dithered over technology transfer for LCA, soft-pedaled on ALH tech transfer when German pacifists raised their eyebrows, and coughed when India almost went to war with Pakistan over Kargil and Kashmir, so in the final analysis it could not be considered a reliable supplier of major weapons.

Italy has never sold a major weapon to India, and so could bring neither influence nor reputation to support Eurofighter, while the third partner, Spain, is totally absent from the Indian military landscape.

This left BAE Systems as the best-known Eurofighter partner in India, and so by default as its ultimate public face. BAE in 2003 sold £1.5 billion's worth of Hawk jet trainers to India, with a follow-on, £500 million order in 2010. However, its previous major sale to India was the Jaguar light attack aircraft in the 1970s. In fact, this aircraft was jointly developed by Britain and France on a 50/50 basis, and while it was license-produced by HAL it was never really successful as a fighter. Furthermore, France could claim as much benefit from its Indian career as BAE.

Taken together, the Eurofighter partner nations posed an even thornier problem: in case of war, German law prohibits deliveries of weapons and spares, Italian law and public opinions would demand an embargo, while Spanish legislation is murky. What would happen, Indian politicians must have wondered, if after buying the Eurofighter they went to war? Would spares and weapons be forthcoming, or would they be embargoed? The political risk was obviously too big to take.

Weapons also played a significant role in persuading India to opt for Rafale: not only is its weapons range mostly French-made, and thus not subject to a third-party embargo, but so are all of its sensors. Eurofighter, whose air-to-air missiles include the US-made AIM-120 Amraam and the German-led IRIS-T, and whose primary air-to-ground weapon is the US-made Paveway, was obviously at a competitive disadvantage in this respect.

Furthermore, the Rafale is nuclear-capable and will replace the Mirage 2000N in French service as the carrier of the newly-upgraded ASMP/A nuclear stand-off missile; it is also capable of firing the AM-39 Exocet missile, giving it an anti-ship capability that its competitors do not have. India is also interested in fitting its BrahMos supersonic missile to a wide range of its combat aircraft, and Rafale could apparently carry it.

Given that India had sworn to buy the cheapest compliant competitor, it would have been unable to justify picking the Rafale had this not been offered at the lower price. While official figures have not been released, and indeed may never be, initial reports from New Delhi claim that Rafale was offered at a unit price of $4-$5 million less than Eurofighter, which is a surprisingly large advantage given the French aircraft's reputation of being high-priced.

The French offer also featured substantially lower costs of ownership, according to the same reports, thanks to lower fuel consumption and simpler maintenance requirements.

If true, these figures imply the French offer undercut Eurofighter by over $600 million, which is a large enough difference for one French insider to wonder whether Dassault Aviation will ever make any money on the contract.

But, even if it doesn't, the Indian contract gives Rafale instant legitimacy, not only because of the thoroughness and transparency of the bidding process, but also because India is the only country to have fought four and a half major wars since 1948, and so knows something about air combat.

For Dassault, the Rafale program will now remain active, with a stabilized production line, for decades to come, and the company will have that much more time to find additional customers. Keeping its production line and supply chain humming at an economically-viable rate are sufficiently valuable achievements to push immediate profits into the sidelines. Supporting 126 – and possibly 206, if India buys an optional second batch – combat aircraft, and providing spares, fixes and upgrades over the next 40 years, will generate gigantic profits, and this more than justified lowering Dassault's notoriously high profit margins.

In fact, as one industry official noted, "this is France's answer to 'Al Yamamah', but with twice as many aircraft," drawing a parallel with the UK's sale of Tornado fighters and related services to Saudi Arabia, which was instrumental in keeping BAE Systems prosperous throughout the 1980s and 1990s.

And, as French Defense Minister Gérard Longuet told reporters during an impromptu press conference in Parliament, France may soon find "that good news travels in formation," implying that further, long-deferred contracts might soon be announced.

-ends-

 

[sayareakd]

deal is of 18 billion USD (subject to revision) and 50% is offset for Indian companies, it appears that lot of money would come back to India.

 

[p2prada]

So MKI is air superiority fighter, Rafale is strike fighter and LCA is CAS fighter. PAK FA will replace MKI... what is AMCA to replace?

PAKFA won't replace MKI. I don't think you understand the timeline. Aircraft that are inducted now won't be replaced by aircraft being inducted 10 years later. The PAKFA will replace the Mig-21 Bisons along with the LCA Mk2. The MKIs follow up options are to replace the Mig-21 Ms and FLs being phased out this year. MKI has a life of 6000 hours or 30 years. So, only a Heavy UCAV will replace MKIs or maybe a more advanced PAKFA version like how the Su-35 is to the Su-27.

LCA is an air superiority aircraft. It performs worst at low altitudes. Just look at the size of the wing as compared to the fuselage. Even EF has a comparatively smaller wing. The Rafale is designed to be better than LCA for CAS as demonstrated in Libya.

LCA is a fly high, shoot fast aircraft like the Mirage-2000 or Mig-21.

AMCA is to replace Jaguars, Mirage-2000s and Mig-29s. These alone are 250 in number. That's why DRDO says the AMCA potential orders are 250. Considering it is our low end aircraft, the potential order may even be in many hundreds, perhaps a thousand orders. IAF may be looking at 60 squadrons by 2030.

 

[JAISWAL]

Another EADS company in a fix.
.
.
source:- Livefist: Eurojet's India Hopes Fade
++

++
Eurojet's India Hopes Fade.
.
.
India's selection of the Rafale constitutes a major blow to EADS, but little or nothing has been said about its implications for
Eurojet, the four nation cooperative entity that
builds the EJ200 turbofan that powers the
Typhoon. With the Typhoon losing out in the
MMRCA, it now appears likely that Eurojet Turbo
GmbH will never do business with India.
In September 2010, the Indian government
announced that it had chosen the GE F414 to
power the indigenous Tejas Mk.2, a huge
disappointment for Eurojet, which had been
confident of upstaging its American rival. I visited
Eurojet headquarters in Hallbergmoos, Germany
nine months before that, and the company had
been quite confident that it would beat General
Electric.
While India does a fair bit of business with Rolls-
Royce -- which has a maximum 34 per cent
production share in the Eurojet consortium -- it
has little or nothing to do with Avio, MTU Aero
Engines and ITP, the other three partners. As
things stand, the EJ200 turbofan may now never
power an aircraft for India.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Top 10 reasons why india made the right choice by selecting rafale as winner?

1.India got an operational ready platform which has tested & proven capabalities while EF 2000 typhoon was like a post dated cheque for india in which many
capabilties are going to be installed in remote future & also many system is going to be funded by
india if it inducts it like


*Captor E AESA radar in 2015.
*Operational AIr to ground launch capabilty of Air Launched Cruise Misilles around 2016
*Thrust vectoring nozzles


so who knows in future if there is any time warlike situation may erupt due to increasingly volatile & hostile neighbourhood of india unlike that before ,so it always better to have an operational ready platform.



2. India already has/going to have 2 air superiority fighters like Super SU 30mki & FGFA so it's better to have a fighter with good /proven air to ground capabilties & rafale is the best candidate for it.
Also in Air to Air warfare Rafale thanks to it's 5th gen SPECTRA EW suite, has the unique abilty of
Passive detection of aerial targets from greater distance than it's own aesa radar when it's target are in active mode (i.e radar turn on) & also it can cue it's air to air missile towards it's target with
the help of SPECTRA only without turning on it's own AESA radar for stealth reason .





3.India could now get all technological help from french for LCA mark2 / future fighters like AMCA in key departments

* KAVERI engine development with Scenema
* 5th gen Avionics/ EW suite (spectra) codevelopment with THALES
* Meteor missile development with MBDA & it could be used in development of Ramjet powered
ASTRA A-A missile
* AESA Radar development

4.India can now have the ability to arm twist france to veto /stop all
potential arms sales to PAKISTAN atleast similar platforms which they are selling to
INDIA.



5.EF2000 typhoon is a joint venture between 4 european countries out of which 2 are marred by economic crisis so it could be risky to invest in such joint venture project when u always have a risk of collapsing,
well Rafale is a single country project whom india has good relationship & has already
operated it's mirage fighters & satisfied with it.





6.India now have a much more deeper strategic relationship with france like russians,it can now
utilize it's relationship to get access in french Islands in the gulf region UAE & in african region like Djibouti to patrol the maritime area & protection of it's SHIPS & tankers from
pirates by basing it's naval ships in those islands .Also india now would have the
support & backing of another imporant powerful ally in future conflicts .

7.India could get secretly the technology of ASMP missile for INDIA's own Long
range Cruise missile programs through french as french cannot sell this weapon.
It could be a effective cruise missile like that of Brahmos but not codeveloped like it .

8.Rafale's excellent features which gives clear advantage compare to EF 2000 typhoon
i) Much advanced & sophisticated Avionics likes that RECCO NG reconnaise pod & ECM suites likes that of 5th GEN spectra Sytem
ii) Much better Air to air missile likes that MICA /meteor MISSILE even could be armed with foreign weapons
iii) 14 weapons hard points & more weapons payload carring capacity
iv) Tested & proven multi role fighter
v) More manuverabilty thanks to it's close coupled canards
vi) Operational ready AESA radar


9.India is going to get all F3 standard of RAFALE well india can also develop it further with French to F4 standard
which can have increased stealth features like
* Enclosed weapons pods
* more advanced avionics & EW warfare suite
* Less infra red sinature emitting a nine ton thrust version of the M88 engine.

10.French are more transparent & friendlier in transfer of all critical
technology & they dont attach any strings of condition while selling weapons & also they wont put sanctions in future unlike the EF 2000 partners countries which are more pro US .


CONCLUSION
So all in all india really made a wise decision of selecting Rafale as the winner of the 128 MMRCA jet contract & is a truly a complete & tested multirole fighter which fullfills india's all criteria & needs


IAF VISION 2020

and for EF 2000 typhoon's fanbouy's well it is just this for us now

FROM THE AUTHOR
well it is my personal opinion & i have written this article in a pure unbiased manner .SO plz dont accuse me as rafale's fanbouy & of any biasedness

THANK U

 

[Kunal Biswas]

What is your source ?

 

[Drsomnath999]

what is your source ?

well it is written by me as usual & as usual posted in many defence forums including this

 

[Blackwater]

take out LCA from pics.it wont be there by 2020 lollllllllllllllllll

 

[Drsomnath999]

take out LCA from pics.it wont be there by 2020 lollllllllllllllllll

well what are u saying i thought u guys were to curse me why i hadnt included AMCA jet into that picture

 

[JAISWAL]

thats a great analysis doc.
Now about your 6th
point.
I have heard of two-three
listing posts jointly held by
the French and India in
Indian-Ocean region.
I will try to find it and
post it.

 

[Neil]

Turbulence ahead with Indian jet deal

The Indians, stormed "senior government sources," had gone for the "Asda option instead of Waitrose".


By preferring the French Rafale jet rather than the British-built Typhoon, they rejected, according to the Prime Minister, a "superb aircraft with far better capabilities".
How dare they, asked MPs, snub Britain, which had given them £1.2 billion in aid? One newspaper even blamed the decision on the Gandhi family.
The truth about Britain's "failure" to land the £6.3 billion Indian military jet deal — and the thousands of jobs it will sustain - is different. The game is not yet over.
But if we do lose, it will have nothing to do with the Gandhis, or the aid — which, as we report today, the Indians simply do not care about either way. It will be because of our own mistakes.
Senior Indian figures and military aviation experts have told The Sunday Telegraph that British defence cuts played a key part in India's decision to prefer France for the huge 126-warplane contract. But they said the deal could still be rescued for the UK.
"For David Cameron to say that Typhoon has far better capabilities is embarrassing, and I say that as a strong supporter of the aircraft," said Jon Lake, defence editor at Arabian Aerospace magazine, and an expert in Asian procurement.

"It would have been true to say that it has better potential than the Rafale, but thanks to the cheeseparing of our Treasury, and the other Typhoon partner nations' treasuries, that potential has not been realised yet."

Key to the Indian decision, said one senior defence source in Delhi, was the country's wish for a radar and set of weapons which already exist on Rafale — but which are not currently present on Typhoon.

The French jet can launch a wide suite of smart weapons including Scalp, an air-launched cruise missile, Exocet, an anti-ship missile, and AASM, a precision-guided bomb with extended "stand-off" capability allowing it to be dropped from further away, reducing the risk to the pilot from anti-aircraft fire.

It also has an advanced reconnaissance pod and the latest electronic scanned array radar. This combination of capabilities proved highly effective in the recent war over Libya.

Typhoon currently has none of these things. The RAF badly wants the aircraft to have Scalp's British equivalent Storm Shadow — along with the anti-tank Brimstone missile, a reconnaissance pod, and the radar.

These capabilities, apart from the radar, are currently available on the RAF's Tornado jets and were heavily used by the British in Libya. But their arrival on Typhoon has been delayed by defence cuts.

"For the Indians it's all about credibility," said Mr Lake. "If they believe what the Typhoon consortium told them, then by 2018 Typhoon will do everything that Rafale does now. But they clearly don't believe it, and I don't blame them, given the programme's history of delays and cost overruns.

"At the moment, Typhoon can drop a laser-guided bomb, and that's it. The combination of Typhoon and Tornado was quite effective in Libya. But on its own, Typhoon was less versatile than the Rafale."

Tim Ripley, of Jane's Defence Weekly, said: "The RAF are desperate for further weapons on the Typhoon but it is something the Treasury have been trying to avoid doing. This is a crucial test of the Government's export rhetoric. The Indians ask why they should buy this kit for their own aircraft if we won't put it on ours."

Typhoon is built by a four-nation consortium of Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain. The Indian marketing campaign was led by the Germans, a decision which Mr Lake described as "clearly mad" given India's historic ties with Britain.

The culture and structure of the Indian Air Force is still heavily influenced by its British origins, with identical ranks and near-identical Air Force blue uniforms.

"The Typhoons they sent to India [for evaluation] were German, flown by German aircrew, but the Germans have a completely different culture," said Mr Lake.

"It was mindblowingly inept."

The British Typhoon contractor BAE was later brought in to partner the bid in apparent acknowledgement of the mistake.

Despite these failures, both Indian and British defence sources say that the contract could still be rescued for Typhoon.

A spokesman for BAE said: "The assessment made last week was basically a view from the pricing committee. There's an awful long way to go before there's a signed contract. It is far from a done deal."

Though Typhoon is currently less well armed than Rafale, it is probably the more capable aircraft.
Experts say it can deliver a higher kill-loss ratio in air-to-air combat than the French jet.
"If they take the Rafale, the Indians will have to continue to rely on their Sukhoi 30s [fighters] for air dominance," said Mr Lake.

"That's all right if you are fighting Pakistan. But if you are fighting China, who also have Su-30s, you are not going to win."

Commercially, Rafale has a track record of "winning" at this stage of a competition, then being overhauled in the final stretch.

The aircraft was selected as preferred bidder for a 60-jet order by the United Arab Emirates, but was then dropped as "uncompetitive and unworkable in commercial terms" by the customer, though there were reports last week that it might be back in the running.

Typhoon is now again in contention for the UAE business. Rafale was preferred by the Swiss air force, but the Swiss government chose the rival Gripen fighter instead. A supposed order with Brazil has also failed so far to materialise.

The Rafale has been assessed by the Indians as cheaper than the Typhoon.
The prices offered by the two bidders are secret. But official figures for Britain's spending on the Typhoon, compared with France's spending on the Rafale, appear to suggest that the British jet is slightly cheaper, though the science is very imprecise and cost figures for the same aircraft can vary by up to 40% depending on what is included.
Mr Lake said: "I would suspect when the Indians probe hard into the French price they will find that it is not satisfactory and hasn't included things."

Yet even if the Typhoon does, in the end, come through, it will not be the British jobs bonanza that some reports have claimed.
Because the aircraft is a four-nation joint effort, Britain would only have a 37 per cent share of the deal. And perhaps the most important part of the bargain for the Indians is that they want more than half — and perhaps up to four-fifths — of the aircraft to be manufactured in India.

Even on the Indian-made jets, substaintial components would still be British - but we could end up with less than a fifth of the actual work.

In other words, Britain may end up with less than 10 per cent of the production work on the deal.
It is still a good bargain, though, according to Tim Ripley.
"The real value is not in the assembly of the planes," he says. "It is being involved in their future support and development over the next 40 years, it is keeping the production line going, and it is being embedded with one of the world's major economic players.

"It is the life-support system for the British military aerospace industry. That is why it is so important that we get this right."



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...68/Turbulence-ahead-with-Indian-jet-deal.html