Know Your 'Rafale'

[omaebakabaka]

Light and heavy or medium aren't decided based on single or twin engine configuration.

Both Rafale and F 35 falls under medium category if we are going by MMRCA . With F-35 engine upgrade already planned out.

The cost of F-35 A is less than 80mn dollar while a Rafale cost 91 million Euro plus add on charge which come pre-installed on F-35.

You are correct but thats not the point, there is no one set of criteria. The point is single engine ones used to define the light as they were cheap and had a specific role in tactics. Now Rafale like multirole ones are making them very hard to justify. Now even the lightest aircraft empty weight is close to 10 tons. F-35 pretty much lags on Rafale in terms of mission profile it can undertake....US wont admit it but they made a mistake on F-35 bet. They are not going to follow thru in replacing f-16/15/18 with 35. The thing is 1.5 trillion dollars and still going....they could have gotten 100 ford class carriers along with F-18s in that amount.

 

[Poseidon]

Good question !
The indian jets are ready for F4.2.... (you jaut have to wait the developpment phase i 2024 more or less). so the 2 small "doors" on each side of the nose may be to add some goodies now or in a near future (AESA conformal array? seems a little bit too small).
The Rafale ready for F4.2 are to be delivered to the french forces In 2022+.
India has the most modern Rafale of the world so far.

Don't think it's a side radar but I think it is something to increase Field of View (FOV) of the onboard radar.

 

[Shaitan]

IAF Rafale formation flying with Su30MKIs and Jaguars

 

[Flying Dagger]

Its t/w is worse if I remember correctly than Rafale, a bit better at half tank but its combat radius is bad in general and in high altitude it would be even worse.

Not worse 0.87 F-35 for now in comparison to 0.98 Rafale.

But there is an engine upgrade to sort it out which will enhance the thrust and improve fuel efficiency too. It isn't that essential either for now since it relies on stealth and BVR capability. The problem that you encounter on articles are with B and C version anyway not A meant for Airforce. It is performing efficiently with all airforces who received it.

Personally I prefer sleek and manueverable jets with very high thrust like Su 57 and Mig 29/35 my favourite ones. But the tech advantage F 35 have over any other jet in business is immense.

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale costed us 91 million Euro (Vanilla Sky)

Then addons like Elbit HMDS etc costed more.

Life cycle cost / upgrade etc will cost lot less for F-18.

What is the airframe life of Rafale in comparison to F-18s for sea and airforce versions ?

Fact: French will toe the American line that's for sure. We have seen it in case of mistral naval vessels. Politics is unpredictable.

No one is going to give anything serious spare parts /overhaul maintenance etc need to be done here that's it rest it's just the production standard which will be raised and will help Indian industries.

Wrong.
The French Rafale F3R costs 95€ million with VAT.

Just ask the US to adapt F21 or SH18 with the indian specifics : the answer will be "NO". So compare apple with apple, ie french AF Rafale and USN AF SH18.

The F3R is fully compatible with Elbit HDMS. it is in the price.

Life cost : probably. But with a better disponibility as Rafale don't need grand overhaul.

Airframe life ? so far 7000 hours in the two versions. Tests are undergoing to improve it. The Dassault fighters (and business jets) are worldwide known to be very strong.

"French will toe the American line that's for sure." Wrong : see after the indian and pakistani nuclear tests. See what happend during Enduring Freedom (Irak). See what happend in Lybia 2011 (no US at the beginning)....

 

[BON PLAN]

It has a gigantic engine dude with thrust more than Rafale's two engine combined.

So gigantic that the fat bird can't supercruise (the Rafale can. with less thrust)
It so gigantic that it can't breakdown ?
It is so powerfull that the flmying turkey can only move 7G.

Impressive !!!!

 

[Immanuel]

F18 is 15% cheaper.
Rafale disponibility is higher
Rafale load and range are higher
Interoperability : Rafale is fully NATO compatible. It is possible to adapt AMRAAM, AIM9X, Harpoon, AARGM.... the problem is not technically, it is financially.
American supply : good by Make in India ! And ask Egyptian and UAE if they were free to use their F16 in Lydia in 2011.....
So indeed, it's just a political and independance choice. but what a choice !

Availability doesn't matter in these discussion, the Super Hornet operates at 90%+ availability on the carriers. Last we check Rafale availability in French AF is around 50% so don't joke around. Super Hornet in fleet size, combat proven reliability, availability and flexibility is among the best in any fighters. Operational costs are lower than Rafale too. No to mention F-18 have a much longer service life.

Super Hornet weapons flexibility is much better.

Egypt and UAE used F-16s to bomb ISIS tagrets in 2011, 2014, 2015, so you're fake news as always.

Egypt and UAE Air Force jets behind mysterious airstrikes on Islamist militias in Libya

UAE and Egypt Air Force jets have conducted the mysterious series of airstrikes in Libya, a U.S. officials said earlier today. The mysterious airstrikes

theaviationist.com

 

[Immanuel]

SH18 is in the 75 $ million each. maybe more.
Rafale is in the 95€ miilion each, with 20% VAT. so 76 € million without VAT (export case), so 89 $ million.

Spend more, YES, for getting less NO. SH18 as F21 will never be make in India. Maybe some bolts and nuts (and doors for HAL )

False. An exemple : after the Indian nuclear US ban, France didn't follow.

No substancial TOT : you (and I) don't know the exact ToT the french are ready to give. But one sure thing : absolutely no US ToT.

Well Rafale doesn't come with any TOT either. They're just putting nuts and bolts togethers in DRAL. So stick to your non sense.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Wrong.
The French Rafale F3R costs 95€ million with VAT.

Just ask the US to adapt F21 or SH18 with the indian specifics : the answer will be "NO". So compare apple with apple, ie french AF Rafale and USN AF SH18.

The F3R is fully compatible with Elbit HDMS. it is in the price.

Life cost : probably. But with a better disponibility as Rafale don't need grand overhaul.

Airframe life ? so far 7000 hours in the two versions. Tests are undergoing to improve it. The Dassault fighters (and business jets) are worldwide known to be very strong.

"French will toe the American line that's for sure." Wrong : see after the indian and pakistani nuclear tests. See what happend during Enduring Freedom (Irak). See what happend in Lybia 2011 (no US at the beginning)....

F-16s have been modified by Israel heavily so did Japan. They won't give you that kind of stuff is cheesy.

See I have shared you the price quoted by Indian FM. 91 million Euro was the price for Rafale add-on costed extra. That is around 109 mn dollar today.


Availability rate of both fighter jets is good and can be sustained at 70-80% easily.


F-18 service life for older model is 8000 in US NAVY while for E/F raised to 10000. 7000 is good though I was expecting 5000-6000 , good job done by Dassault on that.

One reason which helps sell USA their fighter jet around the world (USA umbrella ) is the reason It couldn't make headway for IAF.

 

[Immanuel]

You are correct but thats not the point, there is no one set of criteria. The point is single engine ones used to define the light as they were cheap and had a specific role in tactics. Now Rafale like multirole ones are making them very hard to justify. Now even the lightest aircraft empty weight is close to 10 tons. F-35 pretty much lags on Rafale in terms of mission profile it can undertake....US wont admit it but they made a mistake on F-35 bet. They are not going to follow thru in replacing f-16/15/18 with 35. The thing is 1.5 trillion dollars and still going....they could have gotten 100 ford class carriers along with F-18s in that amount.

You're conflating a 1.5 trillion program cost of 55 year life span VS flyaway costs. Don't be silly. Mission profile is closely related to weapons it can deploy and the F-35 can already deploy a wider variety of weapons than the Rafale. (Aim-9X, ASRAAM, Aim-120C/D, Python-5/Derby-ER, Griffin Family, Spice Family, Paveway Family, JDAM Family, JSOW Family, SDB and CBU-105SFW.

With Block 4 around 20021-2024: It will be Meteor, SDB-2, NSM, HARM-ER, SPEAR, JASSM will also be integrated.

The F-35 is already replacing old F-16s, USMC F-18s, again don't be silly. There is no sign of a cut in the program, talks don't mean jack. LM and other US companies have deep pockets to line up all the senators and congress people they need.

US didn't make a mistake with the F-35, it is expensive but it will be on sale and in production for another 40 years much like the F-16 which still has a higher order book than Rafale. F-16 Block 70s will be still selling in next decade unlike the Rafale which will probably run out of orders if India doesn't buy more.

 

[BON PLAN]

there are reports of Israeli Air Force F-35s flying over Syria, supposedly immune to Syrian Air Force S-300 radars

Do you have some source ?

 

[BON PLAN]

which will be at least on par with Spectra if not superior

source please.

 

[BON PLAN]

in fact the Russians also have the S-400 system at their Khmeimim base. Nothing similar has happened with Rafales

1) Russia has an agreement with Israel. Every israeli plight in the space "controled" by the russian SAM is annonced by IAF.
2) Rafale flew also regularly over Syria.

 

[BON PLAN]

With F-35 engine upgrade already planned out.

As Rafale. a 8.3T is on the agenda. for F5 in 2027

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars Noob attempt by Paks. Typical grammatical mistakes that every Pakistani makes from general to sepoy level.

 

[BON PLAN]

See I have shared you the price quoted by Indian FM. 91 million Euro was the price for Rafale add-on costed extra. That is around 109 mn dollar today.

The Indian price includes :
50% offset ! so you can immediatly divide by 1.5 the price
The additional specs requested by India (something the US don't want to do).

 

[BON PLAN]

With Block 4 around 20021

ALL IS SAID. Indeed, a block 4 in 20021 !!!!

 

[BON PLAN]

F-16 Block 70s will be still selling in next decade unlike the Rafale which will probably run out of orders if India doesn't buy more.

 

[Immanuel]

ALL IS SAID. Indeed, a block 4 in 20021 !!!!

But still before 2024

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Chalo ji rafale bhi deployed against Chinese.