Know Your 'Rafale'

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

for Rafale Jingos like me

 

[ram singh तोपची]

Film Delivery Rafale India - Dassault Aviation

 

[bhramos]

New RAFALE painting ( oil on canvas) by NCE Chinnaswamy Nagaraj of
@IAF_MCC

 

[The Ultranationalist]

....................................................

 

[vampyrbladez]

Dassault may be adding GaN AESA arrays to the F4 standard upgrade of RBE-2 AA radar and SPECTRA EW antennas.

Thales is heavily investing on the
promising Gallium Nitride (GaN)
technology that will shape the
future of the Rafale’s sensors from
2025. Compared to current AESA
modules, GaN transmitters/
receivers will prove even more
powerful, but with reduced
electric and cooling requirements,
allowing the RBE2 radar’s
already impressive performance
to be significantly increased and
additional functionalities to be
performed via the radar antenna.
New multifunction GaN arrays
are likely to find their way onto
the Rafale, thus multiplying the
number of sensor apertures to
enlarge the radar’s field of view.
GaN antennas will also be
adopted for the Spectra jammers.
Various new weapons are due to
be introduced for the Rafale over
the coming years, either as part
of spiral upgrades or as part of
the future Standard F4, including
upgraded Scalp stealth cruise
missiles of the Scalp / Storm
Shadow family and improved and
heavier Hammer (Highly Agile,
Modular Munition Extended
Range) precision weapons.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com › img Web results rafales in combat - Defense-Aerospace

 

[vampyrbladez]

Some more sources with regard to F4.2 standard GaN upgrade around 2025 new build aircraft. F4.1 is for older aircraft.

Thales and the DGA are actively preparing
the future radar developments that will be
introduced on Standard F4.2, incorporating
cutting-edge Gallium Nitride (GaN) technology
for the radar and jammer antennas. Thanks
to additional radar apertures, detection
capabilities will be unmatched and electronic
attack capabilities will
become a reality. The
programme director
explained: “Even though
we are entirely satisfied
with the current RBE2 AESA
radar, we are already working
on the next generation scheduled
to appear on new-build aircraft in 2025.
“For the same volume, GaN technology
will offer an expanded bandwidth, more
radiated power and an even easier ability
to switch from one mode to another, or
from one functionality to another. With
the same antenna, we will be capable of
generating combined, interleaved radar,
jamming and electronic warfare modes
as part of an electronic attack mission.
“GaN emitters will not be restricted to the
radar and they will also equip the Spectra
suite. For example, for the antennas in
the wing apexes, ahead of the canard
foreplanes, we could obtain a very quick
emission/reception cycle, either saving some
volume or augmenting radiated power.
On Tranche 5 Rafales, we will have at our
disposal twice the amount of transmitted
power for the radar and jamming antennas.
Thales has already produced and tested
in laboratories a series of GaN module
prototypes for the new radar and initial
testing results look extremely promising.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=25484&ved=2ahUKEwih_ISm59_lAhXvIbcAHcOwBooQFjATegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2qaxYHttLfhCJh7Dk_Amxc&cshid=1573394696348

 

[vampyrbladez]

These F4.2 standard new build Rafales (30) will arrive by 2027-2030 to the French Air Force.

https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/defence-a-new-phase-of-development-for-the-rafale

 

[BON PLAN]

Some more sources with regard to F4.2 standard GaN upgrade around 2025 new build aircraft. F4.1 is for older aircraft.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=25484&ved=2ahUKEwih_ISm59_lAhXvIbcAHcOwBooQFjATegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2qaxYHttLfhCJh7Dk_Amxc&cshid=1573394696348

All the F3R newly built planes (ie including Qatar and India ones) can be upgraded to F4. 2.
Allthe others (including Egypt ones) only F4.1.

 

[BON PLAN]

These F4.2 standard new build Rafales (30) will arrive by 2027-2030 to the French Air Force.

https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/defence-a-new-phase-of-development-for-the-rafale

No. Before.
The last 28 of the 5th tranche will be F4. 2 fully compatible.

 

[Bhurki]

All the F3R newly built planes (ie including Qatar and India ones) can be upgraded to F4. 2.

Wonder how much over already paid 1600 crore would that cost..
Certainly not cheap considering the French milked India 200crore/mirage for an upgrade signed as back as 2010.

 

[BON PLAN]

Wonder how much over already paid 1600 crore would that cost..
Certainly not cheap considering the French milked India 200crore/mirage for an upgrade signed as back as 2010.

No one forced India to ink the deal.

 

[BON PLAN]

Australia’s F-35s: lessons from a problematic purchase
PETER LAYTON
The rush nearly 20 years ago to buy the fighter of the future exposed fundamental shortcomings in defence acquisitions.

An F-35A Joint Strike Fighter on approach at RAAF Base Richmond in July (Photo: Department of Defence)
In a startling statement reported this month, two recent Air Force chiefs assert Australia has made some grave force structure errors. It seems the RAAF needs a new bomber, as the new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter now entering service is inadequate for future strike operations. The chiefs’ intervention raises questions about how this could have happened and, given growing international tensions, how such expensive strategic missteps can be avoided.

Australia joined the US-led F-35 program in a rush in 2002. There was no tender process or formal evaluation. Nor could there be. The aircraft was still brochure-ware, with delivery schedule and cost unknown, albeit thought to be Australia’s most expensive defence equipment purchase.
It suddenly seems the Air Force needs major recapitalisation, just as its force structure is being renewed at considerable cost.

The sudden decision surprised many, as the Howard Government’s 2000 Defence White Paper had set out a comprehensive decision-making process that investigated alternative force structure options, including single-role fighters, multi-role aircraft, long-range missiles, and unmanned aircraft. The rationale behind the unexpected rush to purchase F-35s was explained publicly by the then Air Force chief.
Unfortunately, soon after the decision, the F-35 began suffering technical problems, cost growth, and long delays.

The first two F-35s finally arrived in Australia in late 2018, with the last nine planned for mid-2023. These nine are expected to be the Lot 15 Block 4 version, the fully developed standard broadly envisaged back in 2002. The rest, comprising six different interim-build standards, will then be progressively modernised to this definitive configuration.

The Lot 15 aircraft has significant hardware and software changes so the complete maintenance and support system, simulators and training centres will also need modernising. This will take time and additional money, but there is no choice. If not modernised, the earlier F-35s – almost all the RAAF’s brand-new fleet – will become hard to maintain or software update, and gradually operationally deficient.

The nine Lot 15 aircraft arrival will allow the RAAF to declare Final Operational Capability and start wrapping the acquisition project up. Over 20 years, the project has slipped 10 years.

This delay meant an interim aircraft, the Super Hornet, was necessary. Funding this meant the overall air-combat capability project had the largest cost overrun of any Australian defence acquisition in history, in absolute terms.

Yet making matters worse, the threat environment evolved.

In 2017, USAF reviewed its air combat programs and determined that, all things considered, the F-35 would be unable to penetrate defended airspace past 2030. The logic underpinning this formal report was later explained publicly by its lead author. The recent pronouncements by the retired RAAF chiefs are then unsurprising. They consider that the RAAF’s force structure is now passé, being unable to defend “our lines of communication or prevent the lodgment of a hostile power in the Indo-Pacific region.”

It suddenly seems the Air Force needs major recapitalisation, just as its force structure is being renewed at considerable cost. The retired chiefs are now calling for a “reset”, with significant new spending and possibly acquiring advanced bombers, cruise missiles, and unmanned aircraft – a laundry list reminiscent of the Howard government’s White Paper.

Before rushing in there are several aspects worth considering.

Firstly, the F-35 acquisition decision was made independently of considering the overall force structure. Airbase defence illustrates this shortcoming. RAAF focused on acquiring F-35s, rather than on also building a capability to defend the airbases they might operate from. China’s long-range missile attack capabilities now mean that in time of crisis, the RAAF might be ill-advised to deploy F-35s to Southeast Asian airbases. In time, this vulnerability might also apply to Australia’s northern bases. Any “reset” needs to be made cognisant of all pertinent aspects, even if they are difficult ones.

Secondly, the chiefs consider that “we need to urgently review where we stand”. The F-35 decision was perceived by some as urgent, a perception less obvious in retrospect. There is apparently a review underway that will report on Air Force structures and composition early in 2020. This is a process that needs considerable thought and deliberation. Rushed decision-making today can produce poor results and long delays downstream. A repeat of the F-35 acquisition should be avoided. This review might be headed that way.

Thirdly, the chiefs blame the Air Force’s parlous state of affairs on changing strategic circumstances that no one could have foreseen. Force structures, though, are acquired for the longer term. The chief’s critique implies the current Defence White Paper process has serious fundamental shortcomings in terms of comprehending the possibility of strategic change.

Before undertaking an “urgent” review or rushing to buy a new jet, it is essential to address the methodology used when designing the future force. This all sounds pretty dry, but its absence can be seen in the chiefs’ conclusion that Air Force’s brand-new fighter is inadequate. This is potentially operationally disastrous, strategically unacceptable, and a waste of taxpayers’ money.

There are methodologies well-suited to thinking about future uncertainty. The Defence Minister’s very first review needs to determine which to use. Until then, all future reviews or White Papers will be of doubtful value. The chiefs’ have done the nation a service in highlighting the shortcomings in contemporary Australian strategic thinking – even if they were involved in making it so. Their critique needs acting on.


https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/australia-s-f-35s-lessons-from-problematic-purchase

 

[Bhurki]

No one forced India to ink the deal.

Its own inability and reliance on just one defense partner forced it go for other countries to import stuff from.
Still doesn't explain why France prices their engineering goods at par with Louis Vuitton bags. I guess they are just not as efficient as others.
I mean germany makes Merc, BMW, Audi, porsche. Japan makes Toyota, Nissan.
And france makes Peugeot..

 

[vampyrbladez]

Its own inability and reliance on just one defense partner forced it go for other countries to import stuff from.
Still doesn't explain why France prices their engineering goods at par with Louis Vuitton bags. I guess they are just not as efficient as others.
I mean germany makes Merc, BMW, Audi, porsche. Japan makes Toyota, Nissan.
And france makes Peugeot..

Rafale is a premium level 4.5 generation fighter jets. Even then we saved about 2.86% per aircraft as per CAG with around 14 India Specific Enhancements.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...report-on-rafale/amp_articleshow/67971488.cms

https://idrw.org/14-india-specific-enhancements-exclusive-to-india-bound-rafale-fighter-jets/

 

[Bhurki]

Rafale is a premium level 4.5 generation fighter jets. Even then we saved about 2.86% per aircraft as per CAG with around 14 India Specific Enhancements.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...report-on-rafale/amp_articleshow/67971488.cms

https://idrw.org/14-india-specific-enhancements-exclusive-to-india-bound-rafale-fighter-jets/

I was talking about the mirage deal.
At $30M/ac and missing out on quite a few new things.. The price seemed a bit too 'premium'.
It was in response to the guy saying IAF rafale could be upgraded to 4.2. Even if it can be it'll end up costing a lot more than anybody thinks.
Also the money saved in rafale deal is calculated on base price( Base price(then) - base price(now)). It doesn't have anything to do with the extra enhancements.
Even at that discounted base price, it costs over $100M, which is certainly more than f35.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I was talking about the mirage deal.
At $30M/ac and missing out on quite a few new things.. The price seemed a bit too 'premium'.
It was in response to the guy saying IAF rafale could be upgraded to 4.2. Even if it can be it'll end up costing a lot more than anybody thinks.
Also the money saved in rafale deal is calculated on base price( Base price(then) - base price(now)). It doesn't have anything to do with the extra enhancements.
Even at that discounted base price, it costs over $100M, which is certainly more than f35.

F 35 is $ 100mn+ for anybody who is not an official partner of the JSF program.

The upgrade is more of a backfit than a comprehensive one.

 

[Deathstar]

Its absolutely true that French are ripping us off. Cant blame them , we would have done same probably. Its business. No morality , ethics works here.
If u dont wanna get ripped off , indigenous is the way forward.. pull your asses together and develop techs u want. Theres no shortcut

 

[Bhurki]

F 35 is $ 100mn+ for anybody who is not an official partner of the JSF program.

It already contains a lot of ISE enhancements that IAF had to pay on top of the base price for rafale. All those things are included in the base price of f35.
Belgium is not a partner in the JSF program.
It bought 46 F35a for $7.5B.. Deal includes everything compared to iaf rafale deal other than $0.9B for weapons in rafale deal. That still means 36 rafale for $7.8B(without weapons).

 

[abhay rajput]

But it already contains a lot of ISE enhancements that IAF had to pay on top of the base price for rafale. All those things are included in the base price of f35.

First of all nobody is selling f35 to us.. secondly I have read that f35 had a spy software in its mission computer which sends all data regarding the mission to OEM.. the Lockheed said by doing this they can maintain supply chains for spares but in reality it's a way for American govt. To keep an eye on them.. only Israeli f35 doesn't have that..
So there is no point in comparing Rafale to f35.. if you want to compare then compare with other aircraft in the competition in which Rafale trumps every other aircraft according to IAF...

 

[Bhurki]

First of all nobody is selling f35 to us

Thats all i wanted to hear..
The fact is if IAF could choose from Rafale and F35, it would absolutely choose the latter on operational performance and finances.
Sure the autonomy will not be maintained.
But people claiming rafale is better than F35 is like comparing Hal marut to tejas.