A very basic thing that a lot of us dont take into account is only and only Rafale-Meteor combo can take on J20-PL15 combo atleast till the time Tejas 2 or Tejas SFDR comes of age and even beyond that.
The other jet that could have helped was F 35 but we are not going to get it for various reasons.
Pakistanis can also be gifted PL15 by the Chinese hence not just 36 or 72 but whole lot of 36+110/114= 146 or 150 Rafales need to bought to act as the tip of the spear and ensure air dominance all throughout the Paki and Chinese border. And Pakistan receiving AMRAAM 120D is also a possibility after 2026 when USA shifts to next gen of BVRAAM's.
Mig 35/Gripen's capabilities are not that gives us significant mileage over rivals. Their capabilities if not matched by FOC Tejas MK2, will then be easily matched by the upgrades that it will get, future production blocks of it, and by the virtue that we can use any armament of replace an component to make it more robust whether from inhouse or outside.
Just see the case of Sukhoi, Russians keep fingering everytime when we try to upgrade it, nor will they give the best armament that they have. And with increasing Chinese military technology even if we dont produce better missiles or armament or other component than chinese we will have the option to buy the best globally with our own aircraft platforms. Buying Mig 35 or gripen will only further our bechargi in future. Even when they say use any weapon on it and we will not object, you buy it and then you see what they see what they say when you actually try to do it.
Though Gripen also has (not sure though) the option of carrying Meteor missile but the combo of meteor and Rafale can only give us an edge against Chinese.
Buying or even suggesting Mig 35/Gripen is in my view not an idea that a person who would love to increase his country's military technologies capabilities and military strength.
Rafale is a necessity to tide over next 15 years till AMCA comes of age.
You have made generic statements I understand we all are disgruntled right now .
Gripen wasn't a bad idea in mmrca 1
Cost wise it is cheaper and then comes the operation cost too which is significantly lower . Saab is known to charge reasonable for their product so even in future the upgrade wouldn't be as expensive as a French jet either.
At that time it could have pushed Tejas project too and help in its development too.
Regarding J 20 PL 15 combo . Considering its a stealth jet and if matures we will need fifth gen jet too.
We are overhyping Chinese threat to justify the import but su will be enough for them for now until we get next gen jet.
And no Russians have offered what they have have right now. They offered long range missiles from on shelf too when Ukraine Russian fallout happen. They aren't asking extreme for upgrade either like French did.
In his book ex def minister George Fernandes said abt the disproportionate fund IAF provide for maintenance of Mirage fighter compared to other aircraft.
Many problem with low availability of Russian aircrafts like mig 29 / su later was due to the fact we didn't keep enough spare supply in inventory and ask at the last moment which delays the whole process.
Buying Rafale 150 or 200 is a wish as of now . I don't know how much it will help us but the cost will be steep . We don't have unlimited coffers to support that. Though I always feel instead of spending money on dud projects we should always give first preference to air power.
Mig 35 were raise since in 2006-9 period Mig 29 UPG was available for around 30 million from Russia . Or 40 mn for mig 35 . 126 of these would have sorted out our current mess then . We already had those birds and it won't increase bechargi but end it. IAF is searching for second birds now and 21-34 Soviet era mig 29 airframes are on their purchase list. Instead of that new airframes at same price then would have put us in commanding position.
Tejas may touch them in future or be better but that's more than a decade away till then we can't have a handicap airforce.
Gripen would have been a bad idea in MMRCA1 and is a disastrous idea for MMRCA2.
First and most important, it is not a cheap jet. All the talk of Gripen being cheap is the hype built up by their PR people. Its nearly as expensive as the F16V. Brazil recently bought 36 Gripen for $4.7bn ($130m per jet) while Taiwan just purchased 66 F16V for $8bn ($140m per jet).
Second. They can not provide any ToT for engine since they don't have the IP. Other than the engine ADA/DRDO is quite close to Saab in most of the avionics. Indian EW suite is just 3-5 years behind Saab and same in the case of radar, IRST etc. Infact ADA FBW might be more advanced than Saab.
Third but also very important reason. There is simply no sense in giving a small leftist country like Sweden an order for $20bn. They can provide no geo-political benefit to India compared to what US, Russia or France can. Also, if there is a war with porkis, the leftist-islamist govt. of Sweden can stop the supplies to India for supporting the porkis.
Not true.
Old Mig29s are a great deal for the price they will cost. They will all be UPG standard and with a conformal fuel tank would be on par with our other Mig29s. Its a great deal.
Also, IAF did not budge on the HAL offer for extra Su30s. IAF had planned to acquire 272 and they are only getting that number. They are only getting the replacements for crashed jets. Even though there is an option of making upto 350 aircraft. So no, IAF was not forced.
12 squadrons of Gripen. That would have cost us well in excess of $30bn. That sort of money was not available in 2007 and is not available now.
I agree with Mig35 option but only 6 squadrons. We should go for 36-54 Rafale at the pre-agreed price and then buy 114 Mig35 for about $12bn.
This would keep us well within the $20bn budget and get us 8-9 squadrons instead of just 6. Another benefit would be the infrastructure of Mig29 can be used for Mig35 as well so there could be a cost saving of a billion or two there as well.
All that said, I don't think Mig35 would be bought. IAF is now more into EW and net-centricity than just maneuverability etc. so SH18 and F16V might still be in the running.
Yup Even I feel F 18 have a chance specially if they get it for Navy .
We must remember in terms of TOT companies like SAAB are best bet specially in 2000 when they didn't had much order for export we could have twisted them better. Looks at Bofors we got the full TOT for it in 80s . Only if we would have been a little smart today tons of Bofors and it's improvement would be part of army already with no import .
And acquisition cost of initial batch for 140 mn isn't the way cost is distributed . For 126 -200 jets it wouod have saved us billions of dollar compared to Rafale. As far as their politics is concerned remember French won't come to fight for us nor Russia . It would be the weapon that will speak for us.
Though to be honest I wasn't sure of buying Gripen then due to American engine and parts.
Mig 29/35 had cost advantage. In between the refurbished one they are offering will cost 40 mn while in 2005-8 new Mig 29 UPG were available for 30 mn from russia.
We should have bought them then even now I think 2-3 sqd should have been bought if there is plan to acquire couple more squad of Rafale only.
It's a mess actually we should have gone for one type depending on our budget.
