Know Your 'Rafale'

BON PLAN

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My question is why French engines produce lesser amounts of thrust compared to Russian 145 KN engines?
So how french m-88 is much more advanced than it's counterparts?
Because the M88-2 is fitted to the Rafale ! Rafale is a light plane among the medium one.
From the beginning France needed a light/medium fighter, because a fighter cost is proportionnal to its weight. This is one explanation for 2 differents fighter programs in Europe : Rafale, and the heavier Eurofighter.
There are 2 other M88 :
- M88-3 of 9T thrust. Already tested, but bigger and heavier (it can't fit in Rafale without heavy structural modifications).
- M88-4 of 10.5 tons. only on drawing board.

Much more advanced? I dont know. 20 years ago probably, not "much more" now.
It's not a brand new engine. First operationnal use 20 years ago.... But it is improved all year long (more reliability, less maintenance, less fuel consumption, carefree handling).
 

asianobserve

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Don’t mix politics with technology.
But what America under Trump did for Kurds is batrayal in the highest order. Is that how you now treat allies? Is that how Ameriva is becoming or has become? What you're doing to the Kurds is weakening you in Asia were Asoan countries are watching closely how reliable America still is, and the picture is not good.
 

Assassin 2.0

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batrayal in the highest order
I always said this and will say again in diplomatic world everything is counted on the basis of loss and gains. Trump / his diplomats would have thought this getting totally against turkey will hurt American interest.
Nothing is weakening American interest in Asia. Those who are depend on US such as South Korea Australia Philippines Japan will always stay dependent on US.
Btw Japanese under abe is slowly slowly is building there military capabilities.

They created taliban just to make sure American influence in central Asia will exist and to counter soviets and communist Afghanistan was far far far better than taliban controlled one yes today taliban control 80-85% of Afghanistan million people dead thousands killed in india because of this shit.
I don't understand why people cannot understand this simple bullshit. For Americans who knows they have fulfilled there gains are not interested to waste more money and blood in some war? This is not a batrayal
This is the reality how things work.


There is nothing like good or bad. There is only one thing interest. I was watching interview of Indian forgein minster he said when most important nuclear deal was getting signed Americans were first time dealing with a country which is saying we will never become your ally but we will give you benefits and will not be hostile towards you. Before this for Americans there were two thing one clear cut enemy second ally.
He clearly says we are quite upset from this 19th century American philosophy of creating alliance and all.
 

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BON PLAN

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But what America under Trump did for Kurds is batrayal in the highest order. Is that how you now treat allies? Is that how Ameriva is becoming or has become? What you're doing to the Kurds is weakening you in Asia were Asoan countries are watching closely how reliable America still is, and the picture is not good.
Even an average american can be the US president ! unfortunately for the rest of the world.
And Trump is so average.... a friend of @Wisemarko ? :pound:

History will be crude with Trump.
 

Wisemarko

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Even an average american can be the US president ! unfortunately for the rest of the world.
And Trump is so average.... a friend of @Wisemarko ? :pound:

History will be crude with Trump.
Hello mr wannabe french! You are not french so why try so hard? Ashamed of your Indian heritage?
 

AmoghaVarsha

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Une bombe française à 360.000 euros pièce - Sagem conteste (actualisé)
Jean-Dominique Merchet27 août 2010
Le quotidien économique La Tribune révèle dans son édition de mercredi les conclusions du rapport 2010 du Comité des prix de revient des frabrications d’armement (CPRA), un organisme officiel. On y apprend notamment que le coût total pour l’Etat, y compris le développement, de l’AASM (Armement Air Sol Modulaire), qui est une bombe guidée fabriquée par Sagem, s’éleve à 846 millions d’euros. On y apprend aussi que les commandes portent sur 2348 «kits». Une simple division permet alors de constater que le prix unitaire de cet armement est de 351.158 euros. Pas donnée, la frappe aérienne contre des talibans en sandales se déplaçant en mobylette...

Suite à la parution de ce post, l’industriel Sagem conteste le chiffre unitaire donné ci-dessus. «Le prix réel est considérablement inférieur» assure l’industriel, sans le communiquer pour des raisons commerciales.

Sagem conteste d’abord le chiffre de 2348 «kits» donnés par La Tribune sur la base du rapport du CPRA. L’industriel parle d’une cible, pour la France, de 4148 AASM - ce qui change en effet la donne. (Pour l’heure, seules deux commandes fermes ont été passées : 744 et 680 «kits»). Le prix final pour le contribuable français, développement compris, serait dans ce cas d’environ 200.000 euros, sachant que SAGEM estime le coût final lègèrement inférieur au 846 millions avancés par le CPRA.

Le AASM a déja été vendu au Maroc et d’autres prospects sont en cours, avec la vente du Rafale à l’étranger. «Le prix annoncé [sur le blog] est aberrant par rapport à celui du marché» poursuit Sagem. C’est en effet là que la bât blesse.

L’essentiel du coût du développement d’un système d’armes est pris en charge par le contribuable français, même si une part du développement est intégrée dans le prix de vente à l’export. On parle de deux choses différentes : d’un côté, le coût supporté par le contribuable français pour que les forces armées disposent d’un armement sophistiqué dans leur arsenal, de l’autre, le prix des contrats à l’export.

Sagem constate par ailleurs que le coût du programme ait été maîtrisé, avec une dérive de seulement 5% par rapport aux prévisions initiales.

Grand French plan to mooch Indians.

1. Obsolete Mirage upgrade package at $40 million per plane. No AESA with that much money!!
2. AASM: €200,000 per unit with questionable benefits. JDAM is $25,000
3. Charging India for putting helmet mounted display on Rafale!
4. Charging India for translating French operation manuals to English!
5. Per hour cost in excess of $ 20,000. Almost 3 times F-16 and 4 times that of Gripen.
6. No or limited integration with widely available and cheaper NATO weapons and sensors.
7. Technology curve lagging behind US, means serious deficiencies when really needed.

Time for India to stop drinking french Kool Aid.
We simply do not trust the Americans to give us autonomy. Tommorow some paki loving dumber is US president, he will put sanctions on us.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

assassin162

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They created taliban just to make sure American influence in central Asia will exist and to counter soviets and communist Afghanistan was far far far better than taliban controlled one yes today taliban control 80-85% of Afghanistan million people dead thousands killed in india because of this shit.
Please dont play a part in spreading Taliban's narrative. Only 6% of Afghan population lives in Taliban controlled area. Today almost 70 lakh afghani just live in Kabul to make a point. Though a vast hinterland is controlled by Taliban but that is not 80-85%. Some of the sparsely populated yet large districts of south which are either contested or in taliban control, which is used by Taliban for narrative building. Till today Afghan govt has complete control over 55-60% of afghan districts, and Taliban has absoute control over only 15% of afghan districts ....... In the rest areas taloban keeps bombing or attacking govt that does not means they are in Talibani control.
 

Wisemarko

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We simply do not trust the Americans to give us autonomy. Tommorow some paki loving dumber is US president, he will put sanctions on us.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
I understand. Trust takes decades to build and seconds to break. I also believe that India is not some inconsequential country that US wants to ignore or mistreat in 21st century. There are lot of areas of mutually beneficial cooperation.
More US investors would want to invest in India today (if given choice) than in China. Defense industry can skyrocket in India with good business sense. That’s a big change in mindset and probably Indians will also realize where their benefits lie.
 
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Wisemarko

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Hello wannabe American , you are not American so why try so hard? ashamed of your European /African / Latino /Hispanic heritage?
Who says I am American? I am an Indian IT worker in Silicon Valley on H1 visa. I am very proud of my Indian heritage. Show me some love!
 

Assassin 2.0

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I understand. Trust takes decades to build and seconds to break. I also believe that India is not some inconsequential country that US wants to ignore or mistreat in 21st century. There are lot of areas of mutually beneficial cooperation.
More US investors would want to invest in India today (if given choice) than in China. Defense industry can skyrocket in India with good business sense. That’s a big change in mindset and probably Indians will also realize where their benefits lie.
Yup you are more intelligent than all the knowledge diplomats in india?


Watch this. Government is filled with people who play this game daily.
Strategic autonomy is one of the most most most important thing for india.
We cannot leave all of our relationship which we have developed with French Russian etc for appeasement of Americans we have created them after years cooperation. S-400 is one bright answer to this it doesn't matter that system works or not but it shows we uphold our strategic in trusts

Government of india doesn't work for your appeasement. Hohoho india already bought American weapons worth more than 30-40 billion in total i cannot see big factories churning out some shit. Nothing not for navy not even Israeli now days are manufacturing barak-8 in india.

Saudis are investing multi billion $. Hundreds of $ but still we manage relationships with iran there biggest enemy.

Government works by keeping future strategic interests in mind. GOI doesn't seek any type of alliance that will be pathetic for indian interests.
Government seeks interdependent relationship.

53:0 days of alliance is already over. World is heading with multiple power's
 
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Wisemarko

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US investors are not allowed to invest in the Chinese Defence industry so what is the point?
The point is that all that defense investment can come to India if India wants. No European or American defense entity can invest/ sell or buy technology or trade with China.
 

Indx TechStyle

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The point is that all that defense investment can come to India if India wants. No European or American defense entity can invest/ sell or buy technology or trade with China.
India already manufactures and supplies NATO standard equipment to western countries. Whatever is left are only strategic or advanced tactical techs what US isn't willing to leak.
 

Indx TechStyle

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Who says I am American? I am an Indian IT worker in Silicon Valley on H1 visa. I am very proud of my Indian heritage. Show me some love!
Everyone here, don't get deceived!!

He can't be an Indian at all. Even if he has Indian heritage, he still has nothing to do with India but marketing US nationalism. Just go through his posts in last 2-3 pages.
 

Jameson Emoni

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But what America under Trump did for Kurds is batrayal in the highest order. Is that how you now treat allies? Is that how Ameriva is becoming or has become? What you're doing to the Kurds is weakening you in Asia were Asoan countries are watching closely how reliable America still is, and the picture is not good.
It is never a good idea to outsource your security to anyone.
 

bhramos

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Pakistan warns India: Rafale or No Rafale, we know how to defend ourselves
 

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