Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

Rafale wa not stealth plane and was designed in 1990 when RCS reduction was not the primary objective.

Bro, Stop saying things you don't mastered.

Rafale A, a technological demonstrator, wad studied without RCS in mind.
It was ONLY a test bed for new technology, like close couple canards, highly agile and full instable platform, numeric FBW, New machining process (friction welding, superplastic diffusion titanium forging, huge and charged composite parts like wings pannel...), test bench for the new M88, new cockpit arrangement.... No RCS searched.

It was a success.

When the french government decided to built a new polyvalent operationnal fighter (ie not a demonstrator) it decide to use this successfull bench AND ADD A RCS OBJECTIVE. It was in the official specifications of the program.
But not a single piece or a single shape is common between Rafale A and Rafale C.

 

[Immanuel]

RCS

Su 30 MKI 4 m2

Rafale 0.15 m2 frontal RCS;
0.05 m2 with SPECTRA;
0.75-1.15 m2 with 6 missiles;
0.25 m2 if SPECTRA can compensate for the payload.

With a transmitter peak power rating cited between 1.23 MegaWatts and 350 kiloWatts, the manufacturer claims the ability to detect a 0.1 square metre RCS target at 300 ft AGL out to 24.8 nautical miles, and at medium to high altitudes to 94.5 nautical miles. Clutter rejection is claimed to exceed 48 dB, and the system can track 100 targets. An IFF system is integrated in the radar.

Good luck with your fantasy!

To send Rafale for S-400 is a massive waste, it will get shot down. While F-22s and F-35s would be able to get closer before being detected, they too are at a significant risk of being shot down. People forget a full scale S-400 regiment has very cleverly positioned and hidden pop-up Pantsir battalions, these can pop up and fuck shit up. Spectra won't work for shit. Heck even individual Fire units of the S-400 regiment can pop up and surprise aircraft during 'Ingress'

While in the context of Syria, the S-400 battery locations were more or less well known. Perhaps in the case of China and certainly in the case of India, these fire units locations and deployment shelters will be among the closest guarded secrets. While it would no big secret to know where the Big bird Radar is, fire units will work in pop-up, shoot and scoot mode.

Sorry but a NGARM would also be shot down. Only weapons that can have a great chance of taking out the S-400 Big Bird and Group control centers are Brahmos in a LO-LO mode or Long range Shaurya type missiles that fly maneuvering hypersonic cruise trajectories.

 

[BON PLAN]

French bashing is nice, whats wrong with French bashing?

WHEN IT IS SO BADLY MADE, IT JUST PROVE HOW POORLY EDUCATED YOU ARE. PERSONNALY I DON'T CARE !

Your arguments are or inexistant or false or biaised. It's really a pleasure (and so easy) to counter you.

 

[BON PLAN]

So let me get this straight, when Americans or French bomb its Error, and when the Russians bomb they are Terror? Again different yardsticks of comparison?

Last french air strike error ? Quick answer requested Mister "I know everything on every field".

 

[Immanuel]

How many planes there?
How far are they from the theater?

French use only 6 to 12 planes, coming from Jordanie or UAE !

They Managed to destroy ISIS.... How many years are they in Syria? ISIS destroyed? No yet.

Please the only thing the French destroyed is Paris with their accommodation of Illegal immigrants, now with over 300K immigrants in Saint Denis alone.

IS pounding was thanks to Trump and Putin, Obama was pussy footing around. Negro couldn't even call it Islamic Extremism.

 

[BON PLAN]

The French wanted to destroy ISIS with dozen planes?

Who, except you, say such BS?
It only a help.
We are busy enough in the sub saharian band (where we fought as the leader nation).

 

[BON PLAN]

To send Rafale for S-400 is a massive waste, it will get shot down. While F-22s and F-35s would be able to get closer before being detected, they too are at a significant risk of being shot down. People forget a full scale S-400 regiment has very cleverly positioned and hidden pop-up Pantsir battalions, these can pop up and fuck shit up. Spectra won't work for shit. Heck even individual Fire units of the S-400 regiment can pop up and surprise aircraft during 'Ingress'

While in the context of Syria, the S-400 battery locations were more or less well known. Perhaps in the case of China and certainly in the case of India, these fire units locations and deployment shelters will be among the closest guarded secrets. While it would no big secret to know where the Big bird Radar is, fire units will work in pop-up, shoot and scoot mode.

Sorry but a NGARM would also be shot down. Only weapons that can have a great chance of taking out the S-400 Big Bird and Group control centers are Brahmos in a LO-LO mode or Long range Shaurya type missiles that fly maneuvering hypersonic cruise trajectories.

:blah::blah::blah:

When you see a S200 can shoot a precious russian 15m² RCS spy plane, you can have some doubt over the quality and efficience of double digit SAM.....

 

[vampyrbladez]

To send Rafale for S-400 is a massive waste, it will get shot down. While F-22s and F-35s would be able to get closer before being detected, they too are at a significant risk of being shot down. People forget a full scale S-400 regiment has very cleverly positioned and hidden pop-up Pantsir battalions, these can pop up and fuck shit up. Spectra won't work for shit. Heck even individual Fire units of the S-400 regiment can pop up and surprise aircraft during 'Ingress'

While in the context of Syria, the S-400 battery locations were more or less well known. Perhaps in the case of China and certainly in the case of India, these fire units locations and deployment shelters will be among the closest guarded secrets. While it would no big secret to know where the Big bird Radar is, fire units will work in pop-up, shoot and scoot mode.

Sorry but a NGARM would also be shot down. Only weapons that can have a great chance of taking out the S-400 Big Bird and Group control centers are Brahmos in a LO-LO mode or Long range Shaurya type missiles that fly maneuvering hypersonic cruise trajectories.

If you need to do a hail mary nuclear strike then Rafale does suit best. At least until the last 90-ish km. Brahmos has a major problem shared by air breathing ramjet missiles which is range. That's why govt. has to go for Nirbhay for 1000 km+ strike range.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Bro, Stop saying things you don't mastered.

Rafale A, a technological demonstrator, wad studied without RCS in mind.
It was ONLY a test bed for new technology, like close couple canards, highly agile and full instable platform, numeric FBW, New machining process (friction welding, superplastic diffusion titanium forging, huge and charged composite parts like wings pannel...), test bench for the new M88, new cockpit arrangement.... No RCS searched.

It was a success.

When the french government decided to built a new polyvalent operationnal fighter (ie not a demonstrator) it decide to use this successfull bench AND ADD A RCS OBJECTIVE. It was in the official specifications of the program.
But not a single piece or a single shape is common between Rafale A and Rafale C.

Rafale has lower RCS by using EW jammers. Its actual RCS is not 0.15 or less. F35 has that kind of RCS. Rafale is not a stealthy design. Some stealth may have been added but it is not fully stealthy

 

[BON PLAN]

Instead of being angry, better to work hard and with visible results (not bla bla) on the quality process.

http://www.freepressjournal.in/indi...n-defence-minister-nirmala-sitharaman/1359821

 

[BON PLAN]

https://indianexpress.com/article/i...e-fighter-jet-manufactured-for-india-5367203/

TIC TAC TIC TAC.... Rafale is coming !

 

[vampyrbladez]

Who told you that Su30 has 4m^2 RCS while Rafale has only 0.15m^2? The difference of 25 times is staggering.

Rafale has RCS of 1-2 m^2. Rafale wa not stealth plane and was designed in 1990 when RCS reduction was not the primary objective.

There lies the problem. Without any basis, you are claiming anything


I am sick of posting the same argument everytime. This is probably 10-15 times that I had to post this info. So, I will give you link of entire discussion of Al31F manufacturing in India:
https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...supersonic-fighter.76545/page-13#post-1450905

Read the pages after this post to get info and clarification. Ask questions only if these pages does not have the info you need

According to a defence ministry official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metre as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”

I was being generous with 4 m2. Thats frontal aspect RCS only by Global Security.

https://www.business-standard.com/a...n-next-generation-fighter-110010500074_1.html

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm

Rafale RCS aspect is 1 m2. But frontal aspect is much reduced thanks to inherent stealth design, size and SPECTRA EW suit.

http://*****************/threads/dassault-rafale-vs-saab-gripen.56226/

Picard from ID had some great analysis over this a few years back. There also an F 16.net analysis but I'm travelling so no time.

 

[vampyrbladez]

It is far less than that .

Overestimation is Over The Top. I know you're trolling. :biggrin2:

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale has lower RCS by using EW jammers. Its actual RCS is not 0.15 or less. F35 has that kind of RCS. Rafale is not a stealthy design. Some stealth may have been added but it is not fully stealthy

Another bla bla Guy !

Rafale is a LO plane. Not a VLO. but it's frontal RCS is said to be less than 0.01m². Yes, 0.01m².

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

I was being generous with 4 m2. Thats frontal aspect RCS only by Global Security.

https://www.business-standard.com/a...n-next-generation-fighter-110010500074_1.html

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm

Rafale RCS aspect is 1 m2. But frontal aspect is much reduced thanks to inherent stealth design, size and SPECTRA EW suit.

http://*****************/threads/dassault-rafale-vs-saab-gripen.56226/

Picard from ID had some great analysis over this a few years back. There also an F 16.net analysis but I'm travelling so no time.

The only thing that is shows in frontal RCS. The RCS of behind is massive due to the big jet engines.

You are considering Su30 without EW jammers and Rafale with EW jammers which is biased. If Su30 uses jammers, it will also be low RCS

Rafale having 0.15m^2 RCS from front is extraordinary and makes it a stealth plane. That is not correct

Another bla bla Guy !

Rafale is a LO plane. Not a VLO. but it's frontal RCS is said to be less than 0.01m². Yes, 0.01m².

You are saying figures with EW jammer which is not correct. The actual figure is 1m^2. The close couple caards increase the RCS by giving extra surface are to reflect

 

[vampyrbladez]

The only thing that is shows in frontal RCS. The RCS of behind is massive due to the big jet engines.

You are considering Su30 without EW jammers and Rafale with EW jammers which is biased. If Su30 uses jammers, it will also be low RCS

Rafale having 0.15m^2 RCS from front is extraordinary and makes it a stealth plane. That is not correct


You are saying figures with EW jammer which is not correct. The actual figure is 1m^2. The close couple caards increase the RCS by giving extra surface are to reflect

Su 30 MKI with jammers won't be able to reduce size to same levels as Rafale. EW systems as advanced as SPECTRA are unavailable to IAF currently.

Canards don't necessarily affect the RCS always. A lot of factors like nose cone composites, inlets, wing body blended design, etc also matter.

 

[Immanuel]

:blah::blah::blah:

When you see a S200 can shoot a precious russian 15m² RCS spy plane, you can have some doubt over the quality and efficience of double digit SAM.....

Rafale is wholly ill equipped to take on S-300/400 category SAMs surrounded by pop up Pantsirs . It doesn't even have a proper Anti radiation missile/weapon deployed on it. IAF won't be using the Rafale against the S-400, keeping in mind perhaps only 36 might exist in IAF. Besides, only a moron would send a plane that costs €218 million per aircraft with a far less chances of success over a supersonic terrain hugging mach 3+ cruise missile that costs around 3 million in the Indian context. Heck a salvo of 5-10 missiles with different approach angles, terrain hugging mode all along would ensure S-400 group is disable.

Flying over Pak or Chinki air space is not like flying over Syria or some other ill equipped shithole where Rafale has had success over age old soviet SAMs. Paki and Chinki mountains and valleys are very well littered with hundreds of cheap manpads as well. Quite easy for Rafales or most aircraft for that matter to be shot down.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Su 30 MKI with jammers won't be able to reduce size to same levels as Rafale. EW systems as advanced as SPECTRA are unavailable to IAF currently.

Canards don't necessarily affect the RCS always. A lot of factors like nose cone composites, inlets, wing body blended design, etc also matter.

Don't underestimate Russian or Indian EW. Indian software and radar division is one of the finest in the world. The software developers in India are no fools. Don't underestimate radar, EW, SPJ or other software related items of India.

 

[BON PLAN]

For @smestarz

Excuse me : french forces are on the ground against ISIS : Some 155mm guns very appreciated (because accurate). And some special forces...

It's in french, but there is some pictures so as you can understand

http://www.opex360.com/2018/09/21/a...-lei-syrie-artilleurs-francais-parler-poudre/

 

[BON PLAN]

Don't underestimate Russian or Indian EW. Indian software and radar division is one of the finest in the world. The software developers in India are no fools. Don't underestimate radar, EW, SPJ or other software related items of India.

Maybe they have to work on training and on courses.
For Syrian people for exemple. LOL

https://defence-blog.com/news/russi...il-20-electronic-reconnaissance-aircraft.html