Know Your 'Rafale'

BON PLAN

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What IAF upgrades and when it uupgrades thats the matter to be seen,
We are talking abt Super sukhoi upgrade for over a year !!!

Why do some people like you get stupid like this? What has weight of the plane to do with its ability? Does it always reflect? So since Su-30 MKI is heavier, it should be able to beat Rafale hands down? Or because Tejas is much lighter than Rafale it should beat Rafale hands down? Are you trying to get Rafale into "Medium weight" category boxing match? It is funny when people classify planes as per weight class.
IAF did that, and they are also the stupid buffoons who kept spares of just 50 crores when the required spares were Rs 3450 Crores. Also the same jokers who limited MiG-29 and Su-30 MKI to only air superiroty roles when Russia itself was also using them as MRCAs
It's just logical.
SU27/30/35... are to be compared to F15, F22. + dead Super Mirage 4000?
Mig 29/35 are to be compared to Rafale, EF, SH18 (even if SH18 is heavy)
Gripen is to be compared to Tejas.

Mirage 2000, F16 are in the middle between medium and light.

When you and some of your brothers want to compare the range of a heavy fighter and a medium, it's not fair. same with medium and light.

Dassault made a lighter fighter than EF because it cost less, and because it has to be embark on a medium carrier.
 

BON PLAN

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West have a tendency to select their terrorists and calling them freedom fighters or civilians. Firing at hospital shows that west will not hesitate firing on actual civilians but only mind attacking their special civilians
... not false !

For the hospital, it's a US "error".
But how many hospitalS destroyed knowingly by Syrian and Russian forces ?
 

smestarz

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I did tell you on some forums and now repeating
Rafale is an inanimate object.. why would a sane person hate an inanimate object?
Do you hate a stone that lies on the road? I do not.

WE ARE SOME TO BE, WITH VERY GOOD REASONS, RAFALE FAN.

YOU ARE (WITH SOME OTHERS), WITH NO VALID REASON, RAFALE HATERS.

OK.... But your arguments are always poor or inexistant. Bashing....
 

smestarz

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Not really..
F-22 is the worlds best Air superiority plane, period
but in ordre for Rafale fanboys to have some say, Rafale fanboys will say .. F-22 cannot do strike missiions. and its true. F-35 does all that its required, and Rafale fan boys scream. its expensive than Rafale.. its true.
Su-30 MKI has a better range and performance than Rafale and Rafale fanboys scream about the weight class and availability... Eurofighter has better TWR and Better speed, Rafale fanboys scream about the cost and not having CAPTOR yet. But when I look at all the performances.. there are no scenarios where Rafale comes first except exaggerating of abilities. So that might deem that Rafale is an average performer, which is far to weak to excel over others, and so the best thing that Rafale fanboys can do is highlight the short comings of other planes. when their own plane is an average performer.
Rafale.. bombed syria..a year (along with Mirage 2000) ISIS kept on growing
Russians used Su-24, Su-34 and other "below performance planes" and they managed to destroy ISIS.
Are you trying to tell me that Rafale is good but ADA pilots are incompetent nincompoops? Or they were trying to save money over smart weapons?

It's just logical.
SU27/30/35... are to be compared to F15, F22. + dead Super Mirage 4000?
Mig 29/35 are to be compared to Rafale, EF, SH18 (even if SH18 is heavy)
Gripen is to be compared to Tejas.

Mirage 2000, F16 are in the middle between medium and light.

When you and some of your brothers want to compare the range of a heavy fighter and a medium, it's not fair. same with medium and light.

Dassault made a lighter fighter than EF because it cost less, and because it has to be embark on a medium carrier.
 

vampyrbladez

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What IAF upgrades and when it uupgrades thats the matter to be seen,
We are talking abt Super sukhoi upgrade for over a year !!!
Su 30 MKI upgrade to Su 35BM is an ongoing process.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...with-its-own-su-30sm/articleshow/65529473.cms

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/indian-su-30-mki-upgrade-inches-forward-449060/

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/2018/08/super-su-30mki-has-taken-shape.html

IIRC they are noe testing X band AESA adaptation on N011 BARS PESA radar of Su 30 MKI.

So since Su-30 MKI is heavier, it should be able to beat Rafale hands down? Or because Tejas is much lighter than Rafale it should beat Rafale hands down? Are you trying to get Rafale into "Medium weight" category boxing match? It is funny when people classify planes as per weight class.
The weight class of a fighter defines the role it carries out. Heavier fighters like F 22, F 15SE, Su 30/35 primarily deal with strike role and air superiority. Bigger and heavier jets means heavier and more powerful engines. Look at the evolution of F 18C/D to F 18SH.

Rafale is a 'medium' weight aircraft compared to rest of IAF fleet. By this metric F 16 and F 18 of USAF and USN are also 'medium' weight in comparison to 'heavier' fighters like F 22, F 35, F 15SE, etc. Weight also defines maximum takeoff weight as well as strike range. Concept originated from Vietnam war era when USAF has F 105 and F4 as it's primary fighter/bomber.

Today all roles overlap. Su 30 MKI can be used for air superiority while Rafale can be used for strike role. Vice versa is also perfectly fine. However operationally RCS of Su 30 MKI is far greater than Rafale. Thus in a place with S 300 and S 400, sending Rafale is a safer bet than Su 30 MKI.
 
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Advaidhya Tiwari

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The weight class of a fighter defines the role it carries out. Heavier fighters like F 22, F 15SE, Su 30/35 primarily deal with strike role and air superiority. Bigger and heavier jets means heavier and more powerful engines. Look at the evolution of F 18C/D to F 18SH.

Rafale is a 'medium' weight aircraft compared to rest of IAF fleet. By this metric F 16 and F 18 of USAF and USN are also 'medium' weight in comparison to 'heavier' fighters like F 22, F 35, F 15SE, etc. Weight also defines maximum takeoff weight as well as strike range. Concept originated from Vietnam war era when USAF has F 105 and F4 as it's primary fighter/bomber.

Today all roles overlap. Su 30 MKI can be used for air superiority while Rafale can be used for strike role. Vice versa is also perfectly fine. However operationally RCS of Su 30 MKI is far greater than Rafale. Thus in a place with S 300 and S 400, sending Rafale is a safer bet than Su 30 MKI.
Rafale carrying big external fuel tank is a serious RCS give away. Su30 does not need external tans as it has 12000 litre (9.6ton) fuel storage. So, small NGARM missiles to take out radars are better carried in Su30. Also, Su30 having RCS of a T90 tank is a lie. Su30 can also have RAM coating and some RCS reductions. The propaganda that Su30 is high RCS is just propaganda against Russian planes
 

vampyrbladez

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I have proven all of my points in different threads. If you want specific proof, tell me. Just because you are mentally unsound does not mean you just shout at anyone and everyone. You may make shit from knockdown kits but others don't
Go ahead and throw some quotes and links at me. At least trawl SIPRI for the info. Posting incorrect info here is a noob thing here.
 

vampyrbladez

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Rafale carrying big external fuel tank is a serious RCS give away. Su30 does not need external tans as it has 12000 litre (9.6ton) fuel storage. So, small NGARM missiles to take out radars are better carried in Su30. Also, Su30 having RCS of a T90 tank is a lie. Su30 can also have RAM coating and some RCS reductions. The propaganda that Su30 is high RCS is just propaganda against Russian planes
RCS

Su 30 MKI 4 m2

Rafale 0.15 m2 frontal RCS;
0.05 m2 with SPECTRA;
0.75-1.15 m2 with 6 missiles;
0.25 m2 if SPECTRA can compensate for the payload.





With a transmitter peak power rating cited between 1.23 MegaWatts and 350 kiloWatts, the manufacturer claims the ability to detect a 0.1 square metre RCS target at 300 ft AGL out to 24.8 nautical miles, and at medium to high altitudes to 94.5 nautical miles. Clutter rejection is claimed to exceed 48 dB, and the system can track 100 targets. An IFF system is integrated in the radar.

Good luck with your fantasy!
 

Advaidhya Tiwari

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RCS

Su 30 MKI 4 m2

Rafale 0.15 m2 frontal RCS;
0.05 m2 with SPECTRA;
0.75-1.15 m2 with 6 missiles;
0.25 m2 if SPECTRA can compensate for the payload.
Who told you that Su30 has 4m^2 RCS while Rafale has only 0.15m^2? The difference of 25 times is staggering.

Rafale has RCS of 1-2 m^2. Rafale wa not stealth plane and was designed in 1990 when RCS reduction was not the primary objective.

There lies the problem. Without any basis, you are claiming anything

Go ahead and throw some quotes and links at me. At least trawl SIPRI for the info. Posting incorrect info here is a noob thing here.
I am sick of posting the same argument everytime. This is probably 10-15 times that I had to post this info. So, I will give you link of entire discussion of Al31F manufacturing in India:
https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...supersonic-fighter.76545/page-13#post-1450905

Read the pages after this post to get info and clarification. Ask questions only if these pages does not have the info you need
 
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BON PLAN

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Russians used Su-24, Su-34 and other "below performance planes" and they managed to destroy ISIS.
How many planes there?
How far are they from the theater?

French use only 6 to 12 planes, coming from Jordanie or UAE !

They Managed to destroy ISIS.... How many years are they in Syria? ISIS destroyed? No yet.
 

smestarz

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LOL, ever since the ISIS over ran Mosul, they have been growing, Rather till the Russians actually went to Syria and started conducting operations, ISIS was growing. ISIS took over Raqqa in syria and made it capital, They took over Mosul and show the military recruits in cold blood, there are videos for it, but yes during that time there are no American or Western human rights groups shouting against ISIS. Say when a Force which captures Raqqa , and then Takes over city of Mosul which is 2 hours drive from Bagdad the Capital of Iraq and they were not growing? Well thanks to French and American incompetence, they were growing. But the Russians came and hit where it mattered0

Till 2017 ISIS were very much in control of large parts of northern Iraq and parts of Syria, but after Russians intervened, the ISIS were being destroyed, Not only by air strike, but by ground campaign which co-ordinated with air attacks.

The French and the Western Allies were supporting groups which sometimes were against each other. West was supporting ISIS and also supporting ISIS and also FSA which were many times again each other. So the west was often confused which targets to hit, and most often they hit Syrian army with the directive of "regime change"
The Russians on other hand had a simple rule " if you are against Assad, then you are against us ..."
So they clearly hit targets which were Anti assad in nature. And by the way. The Syrian govt which is still in power asked Russia for their help, The West and French, are uninvited..

Are you stupid? When does Air power avoids Ground losses? So what is the point in French using their smart missiles? The Fact is that French air strikes were useless and at best a Scam just to funnel off the taxes of French taxpayers to show " we are trying to get revenge for attack on Paris"
So just to put a final point.. 1 years of western intervention utterly useless as ISIS grew despite the Western intervention. 6 months of Russian intervention, ISIS almost destroyed, FSA trying to get West involved against Syria and Russia (which the west does not want) and ocassaionally claiming that Syrians were using Chemical weapons.. When the Attack strategy is gaining good results why would they use Chemical weapons? BTW maybe you are not aware but ISIS had their hands on Chemical weapons ...So the west never found ISIS as usual suspects?

French bashing is nice, whats wrong with French bashing?

1) I really don't see ISIS growing. Since 2016 they are reducing their territory.
2) The west air forces have strict rules to open fire. The russian ones far less... They don't care about civilians casualties.
3) West forces only use air force (to avoid ground losses). You never win a war only with air force (but without you can't also).
So it's not a question of intelligence, of firepower or stuff falling short (your legendary french bashing).
 

BON PLAN

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Rafale carrying big external fuel tank is a serious RCS give away. Su30 does not need external tans as it has 12000 litre (9.6ton) fuel storage. So, small NGARM missiles to take out radars are better carried in Su30. Also, Su30 having RCS of a T90 tank is a lie. Su30 can also have RAM coating and some RCS reductions. The propaganda that Su30 is high RCS is just propaganda against Russian planes
RCS of Su30 = 4m² :crazy:
 

smestarz

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You are still stuck with the swiss report? Maybe you should read the way Rafale was declared L1, I guess you are not aware of it,, and thats one of the reason why then DM A K Anthony did not want to sign the MMRCA which the french lost and then had to beg Modi for orders Rafale which he asked for 36..

Let me jjust make you happy L1 in India, but the deal for 126 ..cancelled
Better performing in Swiss, but,, the swiss selected ..Gripen.
Also French are apparently begging Belgium to buy Rafales for 20 billion which they want to pay back by offsets..
"Capability " haha

View attachment 28081 View attachment 28082 View attachment 28083 View attachment 28084 View attachment 28085
AS USUAL, YOU ARE WRONG.

But I can prove it. You not.

Add the L1 in India.
 

smestarz

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We have no issue with RCS when Su-30 MKI can dominate the skies over Pakistan..
Why are you complaining?
Rafale does not have Stealth, just you try to reduce RCS.
Its like I said, Rafale in many of its attributes is not the best... second best at most. Rafale fanboys the best in Exaggerating

RCS of Su30 = 4m² :crazy:
 

smestarz

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The Russians use mainly Latakia airbase,
The French wanted to destroy ISIS with dozen planes? what was the plan? To kill ISIS with old age?
The Russians are in Syria are in Syria for more than a year. They managed to destroy the ISIS capital of Raqqa. At least ISIS is no longer the threat to Syrian army. So now they focus on Anti Assad Forces..
BTW what are the French doing in Jordan and UAE? You did not get the notice that ISIS is almost destroyed? Or your "intelligence" is still searching for new batch of ISIS recruits??

How many planes there?
How far are they from the theater?

French use only 6 to 12 planes, coming from Jordanie or UAE !

They Managed to destroy ISIS.... How many years are they in Syria? ISIS destroyed? No yet.
 

smestarz

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So let me get this straight, when Americans or French bomb its Error, and when the Russians bomb they are Terror? Again different yardsticks of comparison?

... not false !

For the hospital, it's a US "error".
But how many hospitalS destroyed knowingly by Syrian and Russian forces ?
 

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