Know Your 'Rafale'

[vampyrbladez]

The more she talks, the more she discredits the position of a defence minister.

Facts
1. NDA government cancelled MMRCA
2. NDA government made Rafale deal without production line
3. NDA government issued new MMRCA tenders under the SPM, that takes out HAL as the mandatory lead integrator


One a side note, it's hilarious to see you (Rafale fanboy), fighting LCA fanboys now. :biggrin2:

And still Rafale will be inducted with 110 more in wings. Dhruv Rathee sirji, you can't do shit about it!

:biggrin2:

 

[vampyrbladez]

Only if France gives significant ToT for its manufacturing in India similar to Su30. I am not sure if France will ever budge and agree to part with important technology like M88 engine, like Russia gave away Al31F

LOL! Russia gave us nothing but knockdown kits in engine category. Else Kaveri would have been achieved.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I like Tejas. It's nearly a finished product. A nice try by India to prepare the future.

LCA, MCA... are paper projects, so I only wake up those who are dreaming.

LCA is for interceptor role. Rafale, Su 30MKI, Mig 29UPG, Mirage 2000H for strike role, Air Superiority.

 

[Kchontha]

he he he....

It will not be the case. In the ultimate fold of your small brain you are convinced of that !

Final number will be between 72 and 300. My bet : near 180. MARK MY WORDS !

Hahahaa! having a small brain is better than an extraordinarily big one full of sheet. Dream on.........

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Sancho]

Low flying for strike is going to be thing of the past., Now there are smart missiles which can do the job that the aircraft did, the aircraft will be only stand off delivery platform. For example Does SCALP or Brahmos really need plane to have low flying ability? They have a range of 29kms +
In fact flying low will also make the plane a target for enemy MANPADS and SR SAMS

That's not correct, flying low is a tactic to avoid radar detection. Rafale with dedicated terrain following radar and avionics and a good EW therefore is a great plattform for deep strikes, penetrating enemy air defences.
The Su 34 has similar radar modes and avionics for the same reasons.
The alternative to less detectability is high speeds, that's where Brahmos, the SR71 or B1 have their advantages.
The only reason to fly high with a cruise missile, is to extend the range of the missile itself. You launch Scalp or Brahmos at high altitude, let it glide down for a part of the distance to the target, before you initiative the propulsion either to keep flying low or pop up for the terminal phase.

 

[Sancho]

And, just for you, don't forget that Rafale is the first to have an AESA and Meteor.

Because it's PESA had poor performance. Gripen C/D with a standard pulse doppler radar was the first fighter to get Meteor into operational service and EF will be the fighter that makes the most use out of the missile, thanks to the highest Meteor loads and dual channel data links.

 

[Sancho]

And still Rafale will be inducted with 110 more in wings. Dhruv Rathee sirji, you can't do shit about it!

:biggrin2:

And I would love that, the problem is, the government doesn't want that and Rafale fans don't want to see the fact and get blinded by a bad PR deal of the PM, while ignoring anything else the government stated or did.

114 (not 110 btw) Rafale, or Gripen E, EF, even F18 B3s would be great for IAF, to be able to protect the country. But with the government wasting 4 years and now delaying things even further with MMRCA 2.0, nothing will happen anytime soon.

 

[vampyrbladez]

And I would love that, the problem is, the government doesn't want that and Rafale fans don't want to see the fact and get blinded by a bad PR deal of the PM, while ignoring anything else the government stated or did.

114 (not 110 btw) Rafale, or Gripen E, EF, even F18 B3s would be great for IAF, to be able to protect the country. But with the government wasting 4 years and now delaying things even further with MMRCA 2.0, nothing will happen anytime soon.

Not till elections are over. Let first couple Rafale reach India, then whole thing will change.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

LOL! Russia gave us nothing but knockdown kits in engine category. Else Kaveri would have been achieved.

Saying lol will not change anything. India does not even make diesel submarines which were made in WW2 an made nuclear submarine only in 2016. It was political sabotage of UPA that ruined Kaveri, not lack of scientific skills. Russia gave Al31F in 2015 and from FY2016, India has been making Al31F fully in India

 

[Sancho]

LCA, MCA... are paper projects, so I only wake up those who are dreaming.

Now you know what I do, when I patiently keep explaining you the facts about Rafale F3R and F4.

 

[mayfair]

Nope, that's IAFs opinion too, since there are plenty of IAF Air Marshals on record, that confirmed IAF needs more MMRCAs and that 36 Rafales are not enough, even to make that deal useful and cost-effective.

As I said before, it has been IAF and MOD policy to induct new systems in a two-squadron configuration to set up training, logistics, infrastructure and support. 36 Rafales are certainly not enough IF the deal were to be capped at 36.

But that was not the plan. The plan was that there WILL be follow-up orders of at least another 54 (perhaps even 72) and more. But the matter has been caught in unnecessary political drama, much like the Mirage 2000 deal in the 1980s.

Nonsense, the then NDA government didn't wanted to do, what the PM has done now, make a single vendor deal. That's why the MRCA tender was created later, by the following UPA government.

Bollocks to that. At that time NEARLY ALL our purchases were single vendor deals. Do tell me how many combat jets we floated a tender for? Mirage 2000-5s were what IAF wanted at that time and they told the government as such.

Again nonsense, because after 2012 it was on Dassault to comply to the terms of the tender. It took them till 2014 to comply to ToT requirements alone and that was approved by DM Jaitley back then. Both UPA and NDA governments could not sign MMRCA, because of non compliance of Dassault!

No, once Dassault was shortlisted, it was time for negotiations and neither MoD, not Dassault nor HAL come out looking good from this.

The basic source of contention was Dassault refusing to guarantee HAL made Rafales and the price of the same as that would have pushed the price up and Dassault would no longer be L1. The policy at that time DID NOT permit negotiations with L1 and L2 simultaneously.

Also the cost had already ballooned to much more than was budgeted. In February 2012 alone, the price had spiralled

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/north/story/iaf-dassault-rafale-mmrca-deal-aircraft-91544-2012-02-01

Already the original MMRCA deal, which was supposed to be for $ 10.4 billion, has ballooned to $ 20 billion- plus for 126 aircrafts. The final bill will only be known after the price negotiation process is done.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-billion-Rafale-deal/articleshow/38467237.cms

India is quietly continuing its final negotiations for acquiring 126 French Rafale fighters in the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project.
Defence ministry sources on Monday said another meeting of a sub-committee of the ongoing CNC (contract negotiation committee), which includes representatives from MoD, IAF, DRDO and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), is slated to take place on July 17-19 in Bangalore with the French companies led by Dassault Aviation.

Don't just make stuff up

Heed you own advice for once

 

[Prashant12]

And I would love that, the problem is, the government doesn't want that and Rafale fans don't want to see the fact and get blinded by a bad PR deal of the PM, while ignoring anything else the government stated or did.

Bad deal ?

IAF Air Marshal who led Rafale negotiations under UPA Govt now puts out sharp 10-point rebuttal to Congress over why the new deal is better.

114 (not 110 btw) Rafale, or Gripen E, EF, even F18 B3s would be great for IAF, to be able to protect the country.

Its 110.

Gripen E & EF have Finmeccanica components. So No.

But with the government wasting 4 years and now delaying things even further with MMRCA 2.0, nothing will happen anytime soon.

UPA government wasted 10 years.

NDA government in 4 years has acquired:

36 Rafales
Increasing Tejas order 40 to 123 and increasing production rate 8 to 16.
Improved servicing of Su 30.
Approval for 200 Tejas MK2
5 S400 Systems.

 

[BON PLAN]

@Sancho and some others...

MII and Rafale, part 1/5 :

An interesting document in French "Special Make in India".
It is an internal Dassault document.

dassault mag.pdf

From Trappier Editorial:

Le succes du Rafale en Inde s'incrit dans la démarche Make in India lancée par le premier ministre Naranda Modi. De cette obligation contractuelle, nous faison un partenariat stratégique avec des objectifs ambitieux : obtenir de nouvelles commandes Rafale, gagner de la compétitivité dans l'aviation d'affaire, multiplier les projets dans la haute technologie. Notre usine de Nagpur, dans le centre du pays, produira bientôt des pièces et des sous ensembles Falcon 2000, puis Rafale. Nous créons une structure dédiée aux travaux d'ingénierie civile et militaire dans la "Silicon Valley" de Pune, près de Bombay. Nous étudions des projets de R&D avec le ministère de la défense Indien. Comme vous le lirez dans les pages de ce magasine Spécial Make in India, les membres du comité de direction, réunis à New Delhi en Avril, s'engagent avec enthousiasme à tout mettre en oeuvre pour mener à bien, avec leurs équipes, ces projets de grande envergure. Je compte sur vous comme je compte sur eux.

Translation :

The success of the Rafale in India is part of the Make in India initiative launched by Prime Minister Naranda Modi. From this contractual obligation, we make a strategic partnership with ambitious objectives: obtain new Rafale orders, gain competitiveness in business aviation, multiply projects in high technology. Our plant in Nagpur, in the centre of the country, will soon produce Falcon 2000 parts and sub-assemblies, then Rafale. We are creating a structure dedicated to civil and military engineering works in the Silicon Valley of Pune, near Bombay. We are studying R&D projects with the Indian Ministry of Defence. As you will read in the pages of this Special Make in India magazine, the members of the management committee, meeting in New Delhi in April, enthusiastically commit themselves to do everything possible to carry out, with their teams, these large-scale projects. I count on you as I count on them.

 

[BON PLAN]

@Sancho and some others...

MII and Rafale, part 2 :

The main paragraphs are

• Le soutien militaire
• Produire en Inde
• Une démarche qualité méthodique
• Le tissu économique local en appui
• Une coopération étroite dans le numérique
• L'inde terre de conquète pour les Falcon
• Pilot in India un défi pour les directions de programme
• Travailler en Inde une opportunité enrichissante
• Le suivi numérique optimisé en production
• Développement des systèmes aériens intelligents

Translation

• Military support
• Produce in India
• A methodical quality approach
• The local economic fabric in support
• Close digital cooperation
• India's land of conquest for the Falcons
• Pilot in India a challenge for programme managers
• Working in India a rewarding opportunity
• Optimized digital monitoring in production
• Development of intelligent air systems

Page 17/45

Avec un marché à terme de 200 Rafale et des coûts de production qui nous replacent au coeur de la compétition sur le marché civil mondial , les potentialités offertent par l'Inde sont autant de raisons pour nous de réussir notre Make in India et de faire de notre implantation dans ce pays un succès complet.

Translation

With a futures market of 200 Rafale and production costs that place us at the heart of competition in the global civil market, the potential offered by India are as many reasons for us to succeed with our Make in India and to make our establishment in this country a complete success.

 

[BON PLAN]

@Sancho and some others...

MII and Rafale, part 3 :

Page 19/45

Formation: accompagnement de nos partenaires indiens

pour le gouvernement Indien, le Skill India, c'est à dire l'instruction en local, est un challenge nécessaire au développement économique du pays. Pour nous et pour la réussite du Make in India, il est donc primordial d'accompagner notre client par une formation adaptée.

Bruno Penot, responsable du département formation de la DGSM, explique que "ce programme pouvait passer par l'implantation d'un département aéronautique au sein d'une école locale existante, le Governement Industrial Technical Institute (ITI), située dans la région de Nagpur, pour former des compagnons et des techniciens.

Aujourd'hui, le nouveau défi pour notre société est de développer une filière bac professionnel aéronautique, pour doter la joint venture DRAL d'un personnel qualifié et de qualité. Ce projet ambitieux répond parfaitement à la politique industrielle de notre client.

Translation

Training: accompanying our Indian partners

For the Indian government, Skill India, i.e. local education, is a necessary challenge for the country's economic development. For us and for the success of Make in India, it is therefore essential to accompany our customer by an adapted training.

Bruno Penot, head of the DGSM's training department, explains that "this programme could involve setting up an aeronautics department within an existing local school, the Governement Industrial Technical Institute (ITI), located in the Nagpur region, to train companions and technicians.

Today, the new challenge for our company is to develop an aeronautical professional baccalaureate program, to provide the DRAL joint venture with qualified and quality personnel. This ambitious project is perfectly in line with our client's industrial policy.

page 21/45

Produire en Inde
Nous développons une filière industrielle aéronautique en Inde pour fabriquer au meilleur coût, avec les exigences de qualité attendues par nos clients civils et militaires, nos Falcons 2000 ainsi que des sous ensembles et des emports Rafale (pylones, réservoirs pendulaires).

Usine dédiée
Un parc aéronautique, le Dhirubhai Ambani Aerospace parc, localisé sur l'aéroport international de nagpur, va désormais accueillir, sur un site de 25 hectares, Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL) mais aussi tous nos partenaires, dont des PME françaises venues accompagner le développement de cette filière industrielle.
La nouvelle usine commencera par assembler le Falcon 2000. Les pièces primaires, composants de ces assemblages, seront, elles, sous-traitées dans l'industrie Indienne.

Etapes du projet
Les transferts de fabrication sont organisés en quatre étapes.
L'étape initiale concerne l'assemblage du tronçon T1 du Falcon 2000 et de ses sous ensembles, ainsi que des sous ensembles d'éléments mobiles du Rafale, comme les portes-moteurs et les gouvernes.

Une première équipe Indienne de quatre managers de production a été initiée à nos méthodes, à Biarritz, durant six mois. Une douzaine de compagnons ont également reçu une formation intensive aux procédés d'assemblage, dispensée, en France, par la société CODIFOR.

Au deuxième trimestre 2019, un bâtiment beaucoup plus grand permettra l'assemblage des tronçons T1 et T2, puis le jonctionnement du T12.

Au troisième trimestre, la production des gouvernes du Rafale démarrera à Nagpur.

L'étape suivante est prévue fin 2019 avec l'assemblage du plan horizontal, d'un tronçon supplémentaire du Falcon 2000 et des pare-brise et verrières du Rafale.

Fin 2020, la troisième étape débutera. Elle portera sur la jonction des tronçons de fuselage, l'aménagement (montage matelas, étanchéité cabine montage des circuits fluides et électriques) et le montage général, la piste et la mise en vol depuis Nagpur.

Enfin, la dernière étape commencera en 2022 avec l'assemblage robotisé des voilures et l'assemblage de tronçons incluant des réservoirs de pétrole.

La monté en charge du site de Nagpur verra la construction de nouveaux batiments, en particulier une installation d'essais kérosene, des installations de peinture et une aire de point fixe.
Click to expand...

Translation

Produce in India
We are developing an aeronautical industrial sector in India to manufacture at the best cost, with the quality requirements expected by our civil and military customers, our Falcons 2000 as well as Rafale subassemblies and payload (pylons, pendular tanks).

Dedicated factory.
An aeronautical park, the Dhirubhai Ambani Aerospace park, located on the international airport of nagpur, will now host, on a site of 25 hectares, Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL) but also all our partners, including French SMEs which come to accompany the development of this industrial sector.
The new plant will start by assembling the Falcon 2000. The primary parts, components of these assemblies, will be subcontracted to Indian industry.

Stages of the project
Manufacturing transfers are organized in four stages.

The initial stage involves the assembly of the T1 section of the Falcon 2000 and its sub-assemblies, as well as sub-assemblies of the Rafale's moving parts, such as engine housings and control surfaces.

An initial Indian team of four production managers was trained in our methods in Biarritz for six months. A dozen companions have also received intensive training in assembly processes, provided in France by CODIFOR.

In the second quarter of 2019, a much larger building will allow the assembly of the T1 and T2 sections, then the splicing of the T12.
In the third quarter, production of the Rafale control surfaces will start in Nagpur.

The next stage is scheduled for the end of 2019 with the assembly of the horizontal plane, an additional section of the Falcon 2000 and the windscreens and skylights of the Rafale.

At the end of 2020, the third stage will begin. It will cover the junction of the fuselage sections, the layout (mattress assembly, cabin sealing, fluid and electrical circuit assembly) and the general assembly, the runway and the take off from Nagpur.

Finally, the last stage will begin in 2022 with the robotic assembly of the wings and the assembly of sections including oil tanks.
The Nagpur site ramp-up will see the construction of new buildings, in particular a kerosene test facility, paint facilities and a run-up area.

 

[BON PLAN]

@Sancho and some others...

MII and Rafale, part 4 :

Page 22/45
Partenaires sous traitant locaux
En parallèle, la qualification des premiers fournisseurs indiens a été initiée par les directions générales des achats et de la qualité totale (DGA et DGQT). Plusieyrs sociétés, comme Mahindra, LMW, Maini et TAL, vont réaliser des pièces métalliques protégées et peintes, quiseront ensuite assemblées à Nagpur. Des recherches de nouveaux partenaires se poursuivent pour élargir ce réseau.

Les premiers outillages d'assemblage sont également en cours de fabrication chez des sous traitants indiens tels que Hemkund, TAL, Alpha Tocol ou Assystem India.

Essentielle à la réussite de notre projet, la formation des compagnons a commencé en France pour qu'ils renforce leur compétence aéronautique. Un partenaria avec les institutions académiques indiennes est également à l'étude.

Enfin, le système d'information de DRAL sera conforme à nos standards. Les données techniques seront gérées avec les logiciels de Dassault systèmes, comme 3DExpérience, et seront exploités avec SAP.

Translation

Local subcontracting partners

In parallel, the qualification of the first Indian suppliers was initiated by the purchasing and total quality departments (DGA and DGQT). Several companies, such as Mahindra, LMW, Maini and TAL, will produce protected and painted metal parts , which will then be assembled in Nagpur. New partners are being sought to expand this network.

The first assembly tools are also being manufactured by Indian subcontractors such as Hemkund, TAL, Alpha Tocol or Assystem India.
Essential to the success of our project, the training of companions began in France to strengthen their aeronautical skills. A partnership with Indian academic institutions is also under study.

Finally, DRAL's information system will comply with our standards. The technical data will be managed with Dassault systems software, such as 3DExperience, and will be operated with SAP.

page 23/45
Filière emports spécifiques
Une filière industrielle spécifique aux payloads se développe en coopération avec la société DEFSYS, basée à Gurgaon, près de New Delhi.

En 2018, elle assemblera le pylone CRB 201 et l'adaptateur ADP 170, pour les emports respectifs de réservoir de 2000 litres et de missiles d'interception et de combat aérien MICA sous la voilure du Rafale, à partir de kits fournis par Dassault Aviation, avant de les produire entièrement, dès 2019, avec des pièces primaires réalisées par des entreprises indiennes.

De nouveaux transferts de fabrication de réservoirs pendulaires largables sont en cours d'implémentation, avec le soutien actif de la société française AEds.

Translation

Specific payloads branch

A specific industrial sector for payloads is developing in cooperation with the company DEFSYS, based in Gurgaon, near New Delhi.

In 2018, it will assemble the CRB 201 pylon and the ADP 170 adapter for the respective payloads of 2000-litre tank and MICA intercept and air combat missiles under the Rafale wing, using kits supplied by Dassault Aviation, before producing them entirely, from 2019, with primary parts made by Indian companies.

New transfers for the manufacture of drop tanks are being implemented, with the active support of the French company AEds.

 

[BON PLAN]

@Sancho and some others...

MII and Rafale, part 5/5 :

Page 29/45
Depuis longtemps, l'Inde est reconnue comme un centre de hautes compétences en matière de développement informatique. Dans le cadre du Make in India, une partie de la sous traitance de développement, habituellement attribuée à des sociétés françaises, a été confiée aux Indiens.
[....]
Comme pour les développements logiciels, certains travaux d'ingéniérie traditionnels seront réalisés par des sociétés indiennes.
Un centre d'ingéniérie est à l'étude . Il aura pour mission d'assurer localement des développements, comme la conception d'éléments structuraux, le support aux activités de production ou le développement des systèmes de soutien.

Le defi pour la DGSI consiste à mettre l'ensemble des outils et des référentiels Société à disposition des sous traitants indiens et des personnels Dassault Aviation chargé de les encadrer, dans un environnement contrôlé et sécurisé par nos soins.

La possibilité de travailler en mode collaboratif en Inde, comme si le centre d'ingénierie se trouvait à Saint-Cloud, marquera la réussite de ce projet. Elle implique la mise en place d'un réseau maillé France-Inde dédié et performant, avec une infrastructure gérée depuis Saint-Cloud.

Translation

India has long been recognized as a centre of high competence in IT development. As part of Make in India, part of the development sub-contracting, usually awarded to French companies, has been entrusted to the Indians.
[....]
As with software development, some traditional engineering work will be carried out by Indian companies.
An engineering centre is under study. Its mission will be to ensure local developments, such as the design of structural elements, support for production activities or the development of support systems.

The challenge for the DGSI consists in making all the tools and Company reference systems available to Indian subcontractors and Dassault Aviation personnel in charge of supervising them, in an environment controlled and secured by us.

The possibility of working in collaborative mode in India, as if the engineering centre were in Saint-Cloud, will mark the success of this project. It involves the establishment of a dedicated and efficient France-India gridded network, with an infrastructure managed from Saint-Cloud.

Page 33/45
Enfin l'objectif est de livrer aux clients des avions ainsi que des produits vérifiés et totalement conformes à leurs spécifications.
Pour les directions de programmes cela se traduit par quatre enjeux majeurs.

• 
  
  
  • Utiliser l'execution du contrat des 36 Rafale Indiens pour promouvoir des scénarios de transfert dans les domaines de la production, mais également du soutien logistique et des études afin d'atteindre les taux de transferts en fabrication locale nécessaires pour décrocher les futurs contrats.
  • Associer Dassault Aviation, ses sous traitants et ses partenaires indiens au travers de démarches de transferts méthodologiques formelles et rigoureuses.
  • Respecter les délais dans ce nouvel environnement lointain.
  • Maîtriser les coûts, en cherchant des gains de compétivité pour obtenir un retour sur les investissements importants effectués.

Des moyens sont mis en oeuvre pour piloter le nouveau contexte franco-indien et en maîtriser les risques.
[......]
L'expérience acquise nous permettra de mettre en oeuvre les attendus du Make in India des futurs contrats Rafale Indiens.

Translation

Finally, the objective is to deliver verified aircraft and products to customers that fully comply with their specifications.
For the programme directorates, this translates into four major challenges.

• 
  
  
  • Use the execution of the 36 Rafale Indiens contract to promote transfer scenarios in the fields of production, but also logistical support and studies in order to achieve the local manufacturing transfer rates necessary to obtain future contracts.
  • To associate Dassault Aviation, its subcontractors and its Indian partners through formal and rigorous processes of methodological transfers.
  • Meet deadlines in this new remote environment.
  • Controlling costs, seeking competitive gains to obtain a return on the major investments made.

Means are implemented to manage the new Franco-Indian context and control the risks.
[......]
The experience gained will enable us to implement the expectations of the Make in India of future Indian Rafale contracts.

 

[BON PLAN]

The usual lack of understanding. No matter if on the deck, or in the hangar, the fighters are parked next to each other. That means without folding wings, the wingspan of the Rafale increases the required parking space by far => less numbers of fighters.

The length of the fighters on the other hand can be handled, by positioning the fighters in an angled way, or with the nose outside of the deck, which IN has tested for the Mig 29Ks too. Only in the hangar length is an issue, which however also can be handled by inverted positioning like US and even French navy has shown too.

The wingtips solution is a desperate attempt to make Rafale be able to fit on the Vikramadithya lift, which however is neither practical, nor helps the parking problems.

The usual lack of knowledge : The longer the plane is, the less you put in the hangar. There is not only the span in the equation.
And there is another solution for the rafale wing span, but I can't speak about it (it's a patent).

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

First, I want to thank @BON PLAN as a person for translating the french documents and providing valuable information to us.
But, I am not very happy with this agreement of rafale in general :

Finally, the last stage will begin in 2022 with the robotic assembly of the wings and the assembly of sections including oil tanks.
The Nagpur site ramp-up will see the construction of new buildings, in particular a kerosene test facility, paint facilities and a run-up area.

This is the point. Rafale is only getting assembly and nothing else. This is not called production. I would not call anything as production if things like engines, softwares are not made in India. Can India integrate any missile or bomb system like Brahmos, it wants on rafale without asking Dassault or France to do it? France is not allowing India to integrate Meteor on Tejas, for example. I would call this assembly as a bad joke

In parallel, the qualification of the first Indian suppliers was initiated by the purchasing and total quality departments (DGA and DGQT). Several companies, such as Mahindra, LMW, Maini and TAL, will produce protected and painted metal parts , which will then be assembled in Nagpur. New partners are being sought to expand this network.

Painted metal parts! Lol! They are then assembled in Nagpur! This is production? It is simply better to say nothing than exaggerate small things and appear cheap

In 2018, it will assemble the CRB 201 pylon and the ADP 170 adapter for the respective payloads of 2000-litre tank and MICA intercept and air combat missiles under the Rafale wing, using kits supplied by Dassault Aviation, before producing them entirely, from 2019, with primary parts made by Indian companies.

France is helping India make pylons and adapters? Who do you think makes the pylons for Su30, Tejas etc? Seriously, is this meaningful production?

New transfers for the manufacture of drop tanks are being implemented, with the active support of the French company AEds.

Another joke! India will manufacture drop tanks thanks to generous technology transfers from France! Who do you think makes Tejas drop tanks? What is the technology involved here at all?


Unless Falcon jets are made in india fully, this rafale deal will go down as a scam and nothing else. At least something must be given to India for $9 billion. Otherwise, it is just a rip-off. India does not need Rafale in 36 number or even 100. It is a total rip-off. India could make Su30 easily and did not have to waste so much of forex for rafale. France did not do anything worth $9 billion dollars. The $9 billion is worth only if there was significant technology, at least for Falcon jets or something which India does not have

 

[dude00720]

My final words to Rafale's lovers (especially @Bon Plans) is that its numbers will be capped at 36 and a few of them might be added in the future but not at the cost of AF tejas mk2/MCA or amca. Indian navy is also more likely to opted for LM product since some commonality is shared with indian fighters. MCA is the new name for tejas MK 2. It will be gripen Ng class. I have nothing against rafale it's a nice and beutiful fourth gen aircraft but very expensive. Converting the rafale m compatible to Vicki or Iac would be costly. So instead of laying all the eggs on french/DA basket India is witty enough to invest on indigenous efforts.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

It will be capped if Safran ToT on Kaveri does not happen. Fanboys can keep on complaining.