Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

A special news for @Sancho

"The success of the Rafale in India is part of the Make in India initiative launched by Prime Minister Naranda Modi. From this contractual obligation, we make a strategic partnership with ambitious objectives: obtain new Rafale orders, gain competitiveness in business aviation, multiply projects in high technology. Our plant in Nagpur, in the centre of the country, will soon produce Falcon 2000 parts and sub-assemblies, then Rafale. We are creating a structure dedicated to civil and military engineering works in the Silicon Valley of Pune, near Bombay. We are studying R&D projects with the Indian Ministry of Defence. As you will read in the pages of this Special Make in India magazine, the members of the management committee, meeting in New Delhi in April, enthusiastically commit themselves to do everything possible to carry out, with their teams, these large-scale projects. I count on you as I count on them."


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1by-5BDxQ1a-XaW2EcgcQiZeeMLGL7FEG/view

 

[darshan978]

Rafale jets will give India unprecedented combat capabilitie .

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

joke of the century ...
36 rafale wont do shit only mass induction of tejas will transform fate of the iaf.... period

 

[Jackd]

Yes, we should just set fire to those 36 Rafales when they start arriving in the country or even better, give them to Pakistan so that they can replace their aging fighters.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

joke of the century ...
36 rafale wont do shit only mass induction of tejas will transform fate of the iaf.... period

The rafale also involves lot of ToT which will be game changer. The 36 planes are a waste. For example, meteor missile will give India an ability to study the missile and make one of its own and fast track SFDR.

Yes, we should just set fire to those 36 Rafales when they start arriving in the country or even better, give them to Pakistan so that they can replace their aging fighters.

This is a bad joke. Why would anyone set fire to planes or give it to Pakistan? They may not be game changers but they are usable. Don't crack stupid jokes please

 

[Jackd]

woosh.........…...............

 

[BON PLAN]

joke of the century ...
36 rafale wont do shit only mass induction of tejas will transform fate of the iaf.... period

36 Rafale, YES.

But only the first 36 !

Because IAF will never made the same mistake than with Mirage 2000. They ordered too few, and when they were ready to ordered in mass, despite previous Dassault warnings, the line was closed.
=> Just imagine IAF now with 120 x M2000-5 !
=> Mirage 2000 was THE very nice surprise of Kargil (even in a old version). And Rafale is so many more effective. IAF will do all the necessary pressures to have a minimum of 72 planes, probably 120, and optimisticaly 200.

Tejas has yet to prove that it fit perfectly its role : replace Mig 21 as a point defense fighter.
Tejas vs rafale is like

versus

Too winners, but in two different leagues.

 

[BON PLAN]

For example, meteor missile will give India an ability to study the missile and make one of its own and fast track SFDR.

LOL
Tejas used Mirage 2000 reverse engineering. The result is yet to be seen on the field.

So for Meteor.... maybe in 2035.

 

[BON PLAN]

only mass induction of tejas will transform fate of the iaf

Read this day : Tejas made its first in flight refuelling. But with no fuel ! Funny isn't it?

 

[FactsPlease]

Yes, we should just set fire to those 36 Rafales when they start arriving in the country or even better, give them to Pakistan so that they can replace their aging fighters.

@Jackd
Allow me to raise this Q: what if the number is 126? Will you give a different answer?
If yes (Rafale*126 is making the game changer for IAF combat-ability), then you kind of saying: by delaying those 90 (126-36), BJP is making a poor decision.
If no (Rafale*126 won't make any difference, and they should still be put on fire), then what's that decision buying only 36?

-- sorry to say this, as a foreigner, it's truly mystery for that 36-Rafale decision.
---- personally, I agree to go with that 126 Rafale, while LCA must go on as, like @Sancho once put it, it's too critical, and precious, for domestic aerial industry,

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

@Jackd
Allow me to raise this Q: what if the number is 126? Will you give a different answer?
If yes (Rafale*126 is making the game changer for IAF combat-ability), then you kind of saying: by delaying those 90 (126-36), BJP is making a poor decision.
If no (Rafale*126 won't make any difference, and they should still be put on fire), then what's that decision buying only 36?

-- sorry to say this, as a foreigner, it's truly mystery for that 36-Rafale decision.
---- personally, I agree to go with that 126 Rafale, while LCA must go on as, like @Sancho once put it, it's too critical, and precious, for domestic aerial industry,

Let me put it this way:

Rafale, even in 126 is a waste by itself. India needs technology to make planes on its own, even if it is 1 million planes. 100-200 planes are not going to change anything. Technology acquisition is critical and that is the key thing

LOL
Tejas used Mirage 2000 reverse engineering. The result is yet to be seen on the field.

So for Meteor.... maybe in 2035.

India did not get any reverse engineered Mirage 2000. Tejas was based on it but quite different from it. Also, India had no prior infrastructure to make planes or write its codes. But that is not the case anymore

 

[indus]

Let me put it this way:

Rafale, even in 126 is a waste by itself. India needs technology to make planes on its own, even if it is 1 million planes. 100-200 planes are not going to change anything. Technology acquisition is critical and that is the key thing

India did not get any reverse engineered Mirage 2000. Tejas was based on it but quite different from it. Also, India had no prior infrastructure to make planes or write its codes. But that is not the case anymore

Why is buying 126 Rafales a waste??? Looking at the squadron strength any no of new planes is a bonus. Atleast better than flying 1970s era outdated planes. So 36 or 126 Rafales, either option is better than not having anything.As far as tech transfer is concerned, India will never get full technology to build planes from foreign countries. Why would they kill their own market. Sanctions on missile/ space tech forced us to make advances in rockets, satelite, missile tech. Since foreign option is easily available, homegrown product will always find difficult to get acceptance. Same drdo that makes Pinaka, ballistic missiles, radars etc is unable to make aircraft engine or tank.

 

[BON PLAN]

India did not get any reverse engineered Mirage 2000. Tejas was based on it but quite different from it. Also, India had no prior infrastructure to make planes or write its codes. But that is not the case anymore

look at the nose and canopy : same familly look.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Since foreign option is easily available, homegrown product will always find difficult to get acceptance

From when did foreign planes become easy to get? Are you twisting the definition of easy? Planes are needed in tens of thousands for a real war. Tell me, how will you get these many? Getting "SAMPLES" of foreign planes is easy but not the requirement of quantity or spare parts. Don't tell the same lie again and again.

Same drdo that makes Pinaka, ballistic missiles, radars etc is unable to make aircraft engine or tank.

This was because there was psychological problem with Indian mindset and Indians did not go after the kill. Indians were content living in their own lala land like fools. DRDO was not allowed to make planes by sabotage of government and indifference of others, not because of cheap availability of foreign items. Once the intent to kill came, no matter what foreign items will not be acceptable.

There is no need to put sanctions to help India. It all takes is an intent to do things.

 

[indus]

From when did foreign planes become easy to get? Are you twisting the definition of easy? Planes are needed in tens of thousands for a real war. Tell me, how will you get these many? Getting "SAMPLES" of foreign planes is easy but not the requirement of quantity or spare parts. Don't tell the same lie again and again.

Arent we buying foreign planes since independence. From Gnats, DeHavilland to Migs, Mirages, Jaguar, Su30 to Rafale and FGFa in future. Plz tell me, except USA which other country has tens of thousands of warplanes. And why shld India have so many in numbers. We are not going to fight US/Euro combined in the next few years. Dont argue for the sake of argument. Money, skill, labour ( factors of production) are not in unlimited supply. There will be constraints and optimal solution has to be found within the constraints. What do you mean by Samples of fighter planes. Do you think IAF is buying Rafale samples. For samples it is readying two airforce bases where these planes will be stationed. Or are they going to use them as per threat scenario for the security of the country. How easy it is to get samples of foreign planes we have seen in the Rafale/ mmrca saga that took almost a decade.

This was because there was psychological problem with Indian mindset and Indians did not go after the kill. Indians were content living in their own lala land like fools. DRDO was not allowed to make planes by sabotage of government and indifference of others, not because of cheap availability of foreign items. Once the intent to kill came, no matter what foreign items will not be acceptable.

There is no need to put sanctions to help India. It all takes is an intent to do things.

So finally we found out what ails LCA and Kaveri project. Its not any technology or funding it is the intent. Wonder why nobody at drdo MoD thought this way.. Btw do tell us where to buy Intent.

 

[Jackd]

@Jackd
Allow me to raise this Q: what if the number is 126? Will you give a different answer?
If yes (Rafale*126 is making the game changer for IAF combat-ability), then you kind of saying: by delaying those 90 (126-36), BJP is making a poor decision.
If no (Rafale*126 won't make any difference, and they should still be put on fire), then what's that decision buying only 36?

-- sorry to say this, as a foreigner, it's truly mystery for that 36-Rafale decision.
---- personally, I agree to go with that 126 Rafale, while LCA must go on as, like @Sancho once put it, it's too critical, and precious, for domestic aerial industry,

First of all, that was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it. From what I have seen, BJP like to first sample the product and then through a tender process, likes to buy the rest. What I feel is that those 36 planes are better than receiving nothing and the 110 planes that IAF will receive through MMRCA 2.0 are the actual game changers. These 146 planes will in no way hamper the LCA program as we have many planes that need to be replaced in the lower tier (light weight fighter category) and that's where the Tejas will shine.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Arent we buying foreign planes since independence. From Gnats, DeHavilland to Migs, Mirages, Jaguar, Su30 to Rafale and FGFa in future. Plz tell me, except USA which other country has tens of thousands of warplanes

This is the very reason why India is not a powerful country. This was a retarded act done by retarded people of the past and caused great harm to current generation. People in the past were retarded and lived like animals.

By the way, Mig21, Su30 are made in India. So, I would not call all these as imports. It does not matter if USA is the only country with tens of thousands of planes. More is better is the way to go in warfare.

And why shld India have so many in numbers. We are not going to fight US/Euro combined in the next few years.

Why do you think India should not be ready to fight USA/NATO in the future? What makes these countries good or trustworthy? Do they have common culture as India? India may have to fight anyone in the path including USA or NATO. USA has supported Pakistan for so long, gave strength to Middle east, attacked Yugoslavia to help Muslims and yet here you say that India should not fight USA? What is the problem if India keeps back ups to be used rapidly during war?

Let India have 1lakh Tejas MK2, 10thousand AMCA, 10thousand Su30 and keep most of these in storage to be used if the planes are shot down in a war. It is not that planes can't be shot down or disabled by enemies during war. Even countries like Pakistan has 500 AMRAAM and few hundrend HQ9 SAM and thousands of ballistic missiles and can take down several airbase and aircrafts, killing at least a few hundreds to few thousand Indian aircrafts in 2 weeks of war. Do you want India to sit and cry after that?

Money, skill, labour ( factors of production) are not in unlimited supply.

Each Tejas MK2 weighs 8ton and even 1 million planes will weigh 8 million tons which is not a big amount. So, tens of thousands will weigh even less. So, there is no reason to say there is unavailability of resource. Labour to make 10000 planes every year will come to about 3 lakh. This is also not a big problem in a country like India.

India makes 40 lakh cars 15 lakh tractors & other commercial vehicles, 2.4 crore 2 wheelers and 10 lakh three wheeler in a year. Making a small fraction like 10000 planes a year will not be a big deal in such cases. The available The cost of the plane is high due to low scaling. The plane which costs 400 crore will cost 20 crore if scaling up of production takes place.

So finally we found out what ails LCA and Kaveri project. Its not any technology or funding it is the intent. Wonder why nobody at drdo MoD thought this way.. Btw do tell us where to buy Intent.

Technology is not given by god. The development of technology require intent and that was not shown. Funding also requires intention. Intent is about the state of mind and people can be retarded or evil. Previous generation people were retarded and tolerated evil congress. Intent is not sold anywhere. It is not that everything can be bought. Can you buy a new mother, for example?

One of the best example of retarded intention is shown by yourself -"

Plz tell me, except USA which other country has tens of thousands of warplanes. And why shld India have so many in numbers. We are not going to fight US/Euro combined in the next few years. Dont argue for the sake of argument.

"

You effectively want limited military power which serves no purpose at all. You tell me from where will you buy better character and intention to change yourself?

 

[mayfair]

By the way, Mig21, Su30 are made in India. So, I would not call all these as imports.

Licensed assembled in India more like, with critical components still being sourced from Soviets/Russia due to contractual/kulhaari maarna obligations.

 

[indus]

People in the past were retarded and lived like animals.

Which people lived like animals??? Are you talking abt cavemen, neanderthals etc or our previous PMs like Nehru, Indira, LBS etc.

By the way, Mig21, Su30 are made in India. So, I would not call all these as imports. It does not matter if USA is the only country with tens of thousands of planes. More is better is the way to go in warfare.

Migs, Sukhois are foreign products whichever way you look them. Ur argument was abt India to be able to build planes on its own. These are not our planes. How they are built in India is already explained above.

.

Why do you think India should not be ready to fight USA/NATO in the future? What makes these countries good or trustworthy? Do they have common culture as India? India may have to fight anyone in the path including USA or NATO. USA has supported Pakistan for so long, gave strength to Middle east, attacked Yugoslavia to help Muslims and yet here you say that India should not fight USA? What is the problem if India keeps back ups to be used rapidly during war?

Plz explain. In the path to what???. Global domination like USA has today. Well thats at least 25-30 yrs away and World would be much different by then. As of today and the coming future US/ Nato has no plans to attack India. If they have hinted so, plz share with us.

Let India have 1lakh Tejas MK2, 10thousand AMCA, 10thousand Su30 and keep most of these in storage to be used if the planes are shot down in a war. It is not that planes can't be shot down or disabled by enemies during war. Even countries like Pakistan has 500 AMRAAM and few hundrend HQ9 SAM and thousands of ballistic missiles and can take down several airbase and aircrafts, killing at least a few hundreds to few thousand Indian aircrafts in 2 weeks of war. Do you want India to sit and cry after that?


Each Tejas MK2 weighs 8ton and even 1 million planes will weigh 8 million tons which is not a big amount. So, tens of thousands will weigh even less. So, there is no reason to say there is unavailability of resource. Labour to make 10000 planes every year will come to about 3 lakh. This is also not a big problem in a country like India.

1 lakh LCA, 10,000 AMCA, 10000 su30s. From where do u pull these figures. . And in how many years do u want to manufacture them. 100 years. Why hasnt USA, Russia or any European country shown intent to make these many planes. They have both capital and technology. I remember you were the guy wanted to make thousands of nuclear bombs. By posting such numbers you kill the fun of discussion. . Bass ab aur nahi. Namaste

 

[BON PLAN]

This was because there was psychological problem with Indian mindset and Indians did not go after the kill. Indians were content living in their own lala land like fools. DRDO was not allowed to make planes by sabotage of government and indifference of others, not because of cheap availability of foreign items. Once the intent to kill came, no matter what foreign items will not be acceptable.

LOL.
Arjun availability problems are psychological? Kaveri problems are psychological ? Nirbay cruise missile failure are psychological?

=> Indian engineers need to learn that 9,9 is not 10.

 

[BON PLAN]

Each Tejas MK2 weighs 8ton and even 1 million planes will weigh 8 million tons which is not a big amount. So, tens of thousands will weigh even less.

hum hum....

So 100 x F101 Voodoo are better than 100 x Eurofighter because it weigh more ? interesting !

Ask France to sell you the plans of Mirage 4, or Canada for the CF105 Arrow. They weight a lot !